IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT! NEWLY DEVELOPED BMC MOTORS!!!

[hi-powercycles]

Tom,
Sorry If I haven't been clear. The motors have already been for sale on our website: http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.s ... oductId=23. We have already sold out of our first lot. You can look at the pictures of the actual motor on the website. I have had this motor on my personal bike for about 10 days now... We have more motors possibly coming in this week. Like I said earlier these "Thunderbot" motors weigh in at 8.9 lbs dry! (motor only)

Here are some pictures of the Thunderbolt on our website: http://hi-powercycles.com/images/122351 ... 74845.jpeg.

[TPA]

PRICE

[hi-powercycles]

Price will be $899 for 600W thunderbolt with standard 36/48v 25A controller, Twist grip throttle, anodized steel torque arm, and On/Off switch with inline (30A or 40A) fuse in a weatherproof case. Right now, pricing for limited quantities of Modified Thunderbolt with Crystalyte 24-72V 40A controller is $1249.

[pwbset]

:shock: PRICE

Yeah... saw that too. I'm sure these are nice and all, but I'd rather do a custom 5305/72v40a with 4+ah of LiMn and a cycle analyst for about the same cost.

(ebike.ca prices)
$515 - Rear 5305
$18 - 5-spd freewheel
$155 - 72v20a pedal first controller (solder shunt to 40a)
$15 - twist throttle
$125 - Cycle Analyst
$360 - 72v4.4ah Lithium
$50 - shipping
$1,238 Total to you door...

EDIT: For what it's worth I'm not knocking hi-powercycles pricing models... I'm just a comparison nut and a bargain hunter... and most importantly.. broke.

[hi-powercycles]

Hey, that sounds like a great deal! For us, we purposely chose not to sell the Crystalyte 23 lb X5 motor because it undermines our motto of high performance and light weight... If weight is not a big concern, x5's are great!

[Tom]

delete

[solarbbq2003]

how about some torque graphs/pics of internals? my sources are saying these come from india factory so will have to disagree with you there, doesn't really matter as long as they are as good a quality as the chinese factory motors ( which are top notch)

[hi-powercycles]

Hello everybody,
I actually have some more really good news! I got the first 1000W test motor in! We are calling it "Black Lightning." The motor itself is a nice classy black finish. The shocker here is that the motor only weighs in at 10.3 LBS!!!! Yes, that is not a misprint, The motor fully spoked in a 26" rim with rim tape weighs in a total of 11 lbs, 14 oz. Top speed should be more than 40 MPH at 48V. We are targeting the crystalyte X5 with this one. The actual size of the motor is the same as the 400 and 600W motors... However, this motor is not geared.

I took the motor for a quick spin tonight... It was a fast motor, and also extremely quiet. I will check the speeds I get with a 16 cell Lifepo4 pack and the new BMC 35A controller (with paralleled IRFB 4110 FETs).

[hi-powercycles]

Here is a pic of the 1000W motor!

[GGoodrum]

Well, if it is not geared, I'd be very surprised if this would come close to matching the torque of a 5304. Maybe a 4 series. The whole advantage of using a BMC-type motor has been having the torque advantage of the gearing. The problem up to this point has been that when you try to get similar performance to an x5 out of these, the nylon gears couldn't hack it. The metal-on-metal gears handle the power a bit better, but are noisy and waer quickly. The new composite gears, and the higher power version (600W...), sound like big improvements, indeed, but this 1000W looks like nothing more than yet another smallish hubmotor. I'd be a little careful with laying on the superlatives, at least until you've tried it.

[Jerome Daoust]

Can the "Black Lightning" 1000 W motor freewheel (no drag when motor is not under power) ?

[pwbset]

Can the "Black Lightning" 1000 W motor freewheel (no drag when motor is not under power) ?

What a minute?! What are you doing here Jerome!? You still paragliding constantly? I used to moderate the paragliding forum under "paraparker" until I smashed my ankle all to hell a couple summers ago. Haven't flown since unfortunately, but will get back into some day as money and nerves allow. Anyway... welcome the world of ebiking! It's also tiny (in the US) just like paragliding!

Awesome.

PS - What are you thinking of for your ebike build?

[Mathurin]

I'd be a little careful with laying on the superlatives, at least until you've tried it.

QFT, especially since it's fair to expect motors to pass at least 5X rated power in the field. Like the "250w" bmc, or the "750w" X5, etc.

[recumbent]

the motor only weighs in at 10.3 LBS! Top speed should be more than 40 MPH at 48V. We are targeting the crystalyte X5 with this one.

Only 10 lbs, must have about 1/3 less copper inside than a 400 series Clyte motor. My (15 LB) 406 motor, powered at 48 volts, tops out at 30 mph.

[Jerome Daoust]

What a minute?! What are you doing here Jerome!? You still paragliding constantly? I used to moderate the paragliding forum under "paraparker" until I smashed my ankle all to hell a couple summers ago. Haven't flown since unfortunately, but will get back into some day as money and nerves allow. Anyway... welcome the world of ebiking! It's also tiny (in the US) just like paragliding!

Awesome.

PS - What are you thinking of for your ebike build?

Hi Parker, It's great to find you here.

Yes, I still paraglide every Saturday, but I had to find something to fill my Sundays, so that's where the ebike come in. I guess I like non-mainstream activities. I have an eZee Quando, and now want more speed, suspension, range. My bike web page.
I almost bought an Optibike, but judged it too expensive for just riding it once a week, not stealthy enough for the paths I ride (noise does not bother me but would draw unwanted attention) and its transport weight too high (can't take the batteries out). Now considering a setup from Hi-Power Cycles. I have been doing my homework with respect to comparing ebikes: Best electric bike decision matrix (open with Microsoft Excel). My current project.

[pwbset]

My bike web page.

Yup... that's the Jerome I remember. You're going to fit in perfectly here and your analytical mind is going to be very welcome I promise! I fully expect 1,000+ posts before the year is out!

[hi-powercycles]

Hi Jerome,
Yes, it freewheels just like the geared motors. If there is any resistance, I definately cannot discern a difference.

Update on the 1000W motor. I have tested it with an early version of the 35A BMC controller, it seems as if we are not getting enough juice (amps) from the controller. I topped out so far at 33 MPH on 51.2V Lifepo4. From what I know about the dyno information, there is a LOT left in the motor. Above 20 MPH it is dead quiet, and you literally cannot hear any noise. Will re-test tomorrow with a new controller and with a crystalyte 40A controller next week. Don't be so quick to shoot down the idea of a 10 lb 1000W motor. It was made specifically to target the crystalyte 5 series...

[Microbatman]

Looking for some specs on this direct drive BMC motor.

10lbs is that correct?


What is the width of the BMC stator?

The reason for asking is that an X53_ _ is a 53mm width stator.
The 400 series has a 40mm stator.

That's where they got their names from.

[snowranger]

Anyone know if the new composite gears will work with the original 400w BMC and is anyone out there stocking them?

[Will]

Yes, and for that matter, any specs on the 400cc BMC that may by now, have a proven track record? A 10.3lb/33mph motor is a desirable weight/performance improvement over C409 14lbs, C408/6 15lbs, C5300's too heavy to discuss. So, how do they climb; torque of 400, 600, & 1000: How quiet is each motor: can I run one at 75% speed and increase battery efficiency(can't with C-408/C-25amp controller); 36V & 48+V? There's plenty of info to consider purchasing C-lytes, 5300's included, and though BMC sounds good, I need info for one to be my next E-bike motor. Send some data, or better yet motors, to Jerome and let him record the graphs/Excel sheets for us

[hi-powercycles]

Hi Will,
The 600W thunderbolt is definately the motor of choice right now! It weighs only 8.9 lbs! On our 55.5v lipo system and clyte 40A controller, top speed is 36+ MPH (GPS). It is much faster than the 400w motor, and in my opinion is the better hill climber as well especially when coupled with a clyte 40A controller. I am very impressed with the capabilities of the 600w geared motor. I have even sold kits to local bike store owners of all people! Today, I brought our dual suspension bike with the 600W motor to the local bike shop to let one of the guys try it... He literally ran inside the bike shop with a huge grin and yelled to the manager "Hey man, you gotta try this!" The manager replied "I don't know if I want to! You have me nervous with that silly grin on your face!" Anyways, after every single staff member of the bike shop tried it, they all had the same reaction: A huge smile, followed by "Wow! I can't believe how fast it is!" They were all dumbfounded. They were used to selling Bionx kits, so they had no idea what was in store for them when they tried a a motor like this!

I want to mention that I do have a Crystalyte 5304 to test...I am just waiting on the rim to lace it in. I will be doing a comparison video between the C-lyte 5304 and the 600W thunderbolt for anyone interested in seeing how a 25 lb behemoth stacks up against an 8.9lb welterweight champ. When both motors laced into rims hit the scales at the shop, the BMC came in under 11 lbs, while the C-lyte was 27 lbs! Wow.

For comparison sake, the 600W motor at near full speed on the flats will draw about 28-29 amps. The 400w motor will draw about 22 amps. When I tested the 600w motor up a mile long 8-10% grade (no pedaling) I saw about 33-34 Amps maximum. I was drawing a continuous 1500W climbing the grade. No heat, no cutoff, nothing, just pure smiles as I coasted to the top. The 600W Thunderbolt is a VERY impressive motor.

Regarding noise... If anyone is familiar with the older style Currie US Pro Drive systems, the 400 and 600w motors are about twice as quiet. The 1000W motor is downright silent once it gets to speed, No other biker could ever suspect you had an electric motor if he judged by sound. I will speak more about the 1000w motor when we finalize the design and meet the criteria promised earlier: 40 MPH at 48V. Keep in mind, we offer cycle analysts on all of our motors to limit the speed to whatever speed you find acceptable.

P.S. This motor and our extremely light weight batteries make it possible to offer a 35 MPH, high torque, 5" travel dual suspension (120mm travel front forks) Mountain bike that weighs in at UNDER 40 lbs ready to ride! If there is interest in something like this, we will definitely offer it in the near future! Have a great day everyone.

[voicecoils]

I want to mention that I do have a Crystalyte 5304 to test...I am just waiting on the rim to lace it in. I will be doing a comparison video between the C-lyte 5304 and the 600W thunderbolt for anyone interested in seeing how a 25 lb behemoth stacks up against an 8.9lb welterweight champ. When both motors laced into rims hit the scales at the shop, the BMC came in under 11 lbs, while the C-lyte was 27 lbs! Wow.

The 5304 vs BMC offerings sounds like a great show. Can't wait for the video

P.S. This motor and our extremely light weight batteries make it possible to offer a 35 MPH, high torque, 5" travel dual suspension (120mm travel front forks) Mountain bike that weighs in at UNDER 40 lbs ready to ride! If there is interest in something like this, we will definitely offer it in the near future! Have a great day everyone.

That's a great goal weight. Are you considering a cro-mo frame? A number of manufactures are making great cromo frames again like Kona and smaller boutique bike builders as well. The strength/weight ratio and compliant ride are good characteristics to match with ebikes which do carry a bit of extra weight. For a MTB (say in the XC genre) a 20 kg ebike would need to offer significant advantage over a 10-12kg non-electric bike in order to convince hard core bikers.

[Microbatman]

I want to mention that I do have a Crystalyte 5304 to test...I am just waiting on the rim to lace it in. I will be doing a comparison video between the C-lyte 5304 and the 600W thunderbolt for anyone interested in seeing how a 25 lb behemoth stacks up against an 8.9lb welterweight champ. When both motors laced into rims hit the scales at the shop, the BMC came in under 11 lbs, while the C-lyte was 27 lbs! Wow.

Sounds great. Can't wait to see it.
Please use same battery and same controller specs.
Valid testing only changes one variable at a time.

[Joshua Goldberg]

Just discovered this BMC thread and it has been interesting reading every message from the start. Nice to see Brett White posting---Hi Brett.

As for the 1,000W BMC being gearless but having xtreme torque, all it means is larger magnets and thicker copper wire are being used.

I have been used a BMC Front hub motor for about 5 months so far. Got them to play with with, sold 2 with a 20A X 48V for $600.00 and the 3rd one has remained unsold. Using a Crystalyte 20A X 48V controller in a 26" wheel I had a cruise speed of 26 mph and my weight is similiar to that of a small motorcycle (time to diet). It accelerates from a standing start nicely. It is drilled for a disc rotor but I cannot find one to fit & BMC didn't supply one. It is a quiet motor and you don't get the usual whine like you get on a Heinzmann or Tarn. My BMC is supposed to be 540W (18 gauge wire) and Mark Higgon of TeamHybrid was to have his BMC in 13 Gauge (no idea if that came about but it would make the BMC a tree climber at 13 Gauge).

One mention earlier about using a Pedal First Controller from ebikes.ca. It won't work on a geared hub motor. You need to use a Controller with hall effect sensors.

Like Brett White I believe that Brushless/Geared hub motors are the future and Gearless Hub Motors will go the way of the Dinosaur---for lower speed applications, at least for (under 25 mph). Crystalyte hub motors will still have a place for speed demons who like to over-volt.

Anyway Good Thread so far and Congrats to Hi-Powercycles for moving on the BMC

[Will]

Hi-PowerCycles; Bring us the future I'll be watching the video and for several other e-bike pioneers to verify performance/reliability. It looks though I'll need to commute 10 hilly miles to college next fall (moving to AL). Right now I can't outrun the country dogs and wind up pepper spraying a few; wouldn't mind sneaking up the road on 'em on a silent e-bike, then out pacing 'em thru the countryside