Bacchetta Giro ATT 20

I have a Bacchetta Giro ATT 20 which I currently have on the market, but I am also looking into going electric and one option is to keep the Giro and convert it to an electric bike. The other option is to buy a new upright bike such as a Bergamont E-line CMGN) I have seen a one Giro 20 which has been converted with a BionX kit but I don't have a BionX dealer in my state (Australia) and I believe that unless installed by a dealer there is no warranty. I have also seen a front wheel kit install on a Giro 26.

My preference is for a rear wheel setup (I have seen suggestions that the forks used on the Bacchetta Giro ATT might not be up to the task of a front wheel motor, irrespective of that the rear wheel setup appeals to me.)

Anyway I have really no idea about doing a conversion so a "kit" is the best option for me I suspect. I am also based in Australia so we are "limited" to 250 watts I believe, okay maybe 350 watts

I have had a bit of a look at http://ebikes.com and maybe one of their kits is the way to go. Thoughts? Other ideas?

Thanks
Andrew

my word - over $9k for a 250W Bergamont - why don't you look at the BH Emotion bikes, if you want a neat solution?

If you like your recumbent, whack a bafang bbs02 mid drive on it I reckon from cell man and one of his batteries

Edit: just read your blog and see you don't like it, oh well

What part of Perth you in, some one may be able to help you install a kit, works out a lot cheaper than a turnkey bike

PRW said:

my word - over $9k for a 250W Bergamont - why don't you look at the BH Emotion bikes, if you want a neat solution?

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That is for two bikes, a his and hers. Just one bike for me, the seller is asking $4,750. I am also looking at a BH Emotion Race/Carbon or even a Cross. My concern is that the Race or Carbon coming only in medium is too small for me and the Cross is not a great spec (bike wise) but the sizing is better. I cannot confirm this for a couple of weeks due to being off the bike ...



It does not pay to crash

Andrew

deffx said:

If you like your recumbent, whack a bafang bbs02 mid drive on it I reckon from cell man and one of his batteries

Edit: just read your blog and see you don't like it, oh well

Click to expand...

I am two minds about it but I reckon if it was electrified I would be okay with it; even reduce the recline of the seat which would help. I keep going around in circles over it. The price but of converting may well swing the deal for me.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will take a look at a Bafang bbs02.

I am in Fremantle.

Andrew

Aushiker said:

PRW said:

my word - over $9k for a 250W Bergamont - why don't you look at the BH Emotion bikes, if you want a neat solution?

Click to expand...

That is for two bikes, a his and hers. Just one bike for me, the seller is asking $4,750. I am also looking at a BH Emotion Race/Carbon or even a Cross. My concern is that the Race or Carbon coming only in medium is too small for me and the Cross is not a great spec (bike wise) but the sizing is better. I cannot confirm this for a couple of weeks due to being off the bike ...

It does not pay to crash

Andrew

Click to expand...

Ah - I see - not so bad at $4,500! I have a BH Xtrem (36v) I am about to put a 48v battery on, and an Iron Horse with a BBS02 - if you want to see the difference, let me know, when you are back in cycling mode!

PRW said:

Ah - I see - not so bad at $4,500! I have a BH Xtrem (36v) I am about to put a 48v battery on, and an Iron Horse with a BBS02 - if you want to see the difference, let me know, when you are back in cycling mode!

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Thanks. I will touch base once I am back riding.

BTW I dropped in to Avantiplus Morley this afternoon as they have a Bergamot E-Line C-MGN on the floor, asking $4,500.

The frame appears to be an E-Line C-N8 but with a C-MGN specification and frame decal was C-MGN.



That said looking at the bike "in the flesh" it is a very nice build for sure and the components look pretty good as well.

Andrew

I have made some progress on my proposed conversion of the Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT to an electric assist recumbent. My primary use of the bike is a 42 km commute (each way) with around 250 metres of climb. During the summer the rise home is into a headwind which averages 20 to 30 km/h most days.

I am able to setup a charging station at work.

My thinking is the following front hub build. I have gone through and pretty much discounted mid-drive and rear-hub options so back to a front wheel hub motor conversion.

I would value feedback on what I have proposed. Oh I am in Australia so we are legally limited to 250 w but happy to run at 350 w. I am also a complete novice at the e-bike stuff so have tended to go with what I hope is pretty much a quality plug and play conversion.

I will be building the motor into a 20" front rim.

My proposed conversion is …

Motor: Outrider Small Geared Front Hub, Fast RPM, Disk Compatible

Controller: C3620-NC 20A Sensored/Sensorless Infineon Controller

Throttle: T-HTwist Half Grip Twist Throttle, 2m Cable with 3-pin JST Connector

PAS: PAS_12P 12 Pole Magnet Ring and Split Pedelec Sensor, works on left and right with CA3

Torque Arm: TorqArm_V2 GRIN Front Torque Arm

Cycle Analyst: CAS-DPS V3 V3 Direct Plug-In Cycle Analyst with speedometer and accessory cables

AndersonTap Anderson Powerpole Tap

Brakes: HWBS Hidden Wire Brake Sensor

Bacchetta Steel Front Fork and maybe a Bacchetta Recurve seat

My remaining issue is the battery and mounting it. I am more and more inclined to go with a rack mounting as I like the look of it as per this install (see photo). If I go this way I would like a black rack and battery case, so if anyone has any suggestions on the best options battery and rack wise that would be appreciated.



I am thinking eZee 36v 14Ah 504w with Samsung cells (B3614LIM-EZ) combined with a eZee Double Decker rack.

I also need a DC-DC converter. Is this what the Anderson Powerpole Tap is from eBikes.ca? I want to run my Busch & Muller front and rear lights off the battery if possible.

Finally is there anything I have missed? Cables for example?

Thanks
Andrew

Well I still haven't made a final decision on the conversion of my Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT recumbent to an electric assist recumbent. Well that was the plan till a spot thinking on the chair in the shed this afternoon and I may go with a conversion of my LoGo P-38. If I decide later I can easily switch over the kit to the Giro and spend the extra dollars to add a steel front fork and a Recuve seat if desired.

I have picked up on rscamp's suggestions at BentRider and have gone a step further based on Paul at EM3EV advice and will probably get a 48V (50V) 14.25 battery.

Anyway the latest proposed conversion is as follows ... just need to make the final decision on the actual kit. I really need to pull the trigger on this

MAC 350W 14T Front Kit OR a MAC 500W 10T with a 9 fet controller
EMV3V 50V 14.35 Ah Samsung Battery Pack
Thumb throttle
Pedal Assist Sensor that works with V3 Cycle Analysis speed sensor
TorqArm_V2 GRIN Front Torque Arm x 2
CAS-DPS V3 V3 Direct Plug-In Cycle Analyst with speedometer and accessory cables
HWBS Hidden Wire Brake Sensor x 2
Grin Tech 6V 12 Watt Output Rugged DC-DC Converter, for 24V- 48V Batteries


Battery mounting is probably via a battery bag hanging off the left "pannier rack" on the LoGo P-38 or if I go with the Bacchetta via a rear rack.

Would value any input into this build. Paul at EM3EV seems to favour the MAC 500W kit over the MAC 350W kit and does point out I can step it back with the Cycle Analyst if I so desire. I guess it gives me more flexibility if I find I need it dealing with the headwinds.

Thanks
Andrew

I have the 16T 350W kit and frame battery.
- i should have bought the 14T to go a little harder or the 8T 500W to go much harder.

Did a ride down to Freo today from Airport in 30mins, flat out most/all the way. I got the "bottle" battery 48V and 11AH.
40km range no pedaling is no problem for it at 35km/hr.

Happy to jet down to see you so you can have a look / ride stock 25A controller will still push 25A@54V hot off the charger which is 1350W.
My bike spins the front wheel almost every time i take off with big pedal input too 700c. Hence the 350W at 500g lighter seemed perfectly fine to me,
i only have 2 gears so motor gets a fair workout on the hills but not even hot.

Controller now in a bag doesnt get hot either. I work in Balcatta if you wanted to look / ride mid week

KarlJ said:

Controller now in a bag doesnt get hot either. I work in Balcatta if you wanted to look / ride mid week

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I am still not able to ride but wouldn't mind a look on Wednesday or Thursday avro if that works for you.

Thanks heaps
Andrew

A quick update and a thanks for all the input. I feel that somewhere along the way in all my research and "lurching" from one option to the other I lost track of the reason I wanted to "electrify" a bike in the first place which was to provide e-assist, not to end up with a moped so to speak. That is I still wanted to ride my bike but to get some help with that particular on my commute.

With that in mind I have decided to leave my LoGo P-38 as it is, I still want a bike I can ride as a bike and will e-assist the Bacchetta Giro ATT 20 and the key here is e-assist.

It some ways it was a comment that d8veh made about the MAC motors that reminded me I was heading off in a direction towards a moped.

So anyway I have decided to go back to where I started and to get a 36V 350w Bafang BS02 mid-drive mostly likely from Paul at EM3EV. I will marry it up to one of his Samsung 36V batteries, either a 13.8Ah or 16.5Ah which I will mount on a rack (should be able to setup the mounting bracket for the battery on a rack).

This should allow me to pedal and ride as I do but to get assistance or support so that the level of work required into the wind is reduced allowing me to get back and forth in a reasonable state

I will probably add a CA V3 into the mix as well.

The other attraction to me with the Bafang BS02 is I don't need to worry about the hassles that come with a front or rear hub-motor and punctures and I can pretty much keep my drivetrain high-end, just loosing the triple up front. This is my only niggle but I can do ride on the big-chain ring a lot now so hopefully the motor will compensate for the lack of smaller chain rings.

I think going with a Bafang BS02 500W or 750W might be pushing my luck with the local authorities more so given the motors are stamped with the wattage

Any last comments before I pull the pin on Friday? I will update later on how this works out ... bad decision or right decision

Regards
Andrew

Aushiker said:

Any last comments before I pull the pin on Friday? I will update later on how this works out ... bad decision or right decision

Click to expand...

Good decision Andrew, I think you'll find this unit perfectly adequate for what you are after. Just beware the persuasive regret that you are bound to experience because you can't go faster! Just keep repeating 'e-assist, e-assist' etc. Riding a recumbent and needing to keep up with the mid-motor in top gear you'll find yourself wanting to fit a bigger chainring. If so, I suggest you get a spider from e-ride and experiment a bit. Maybe 56T or larger (I'm running a 20" rear wheel and an 11T sprocket so that may colour my thinking on this). I have the 250W and am considering the 350 for another bike -I'll be interested to hear your comments.

Happy Bafanging (new verb I've coined),

Savvas

Thanks Savvas. Appreciate your comments and will keep the spider in mind if I find the 48T is not enough. I started a new thread over in the non-hub drives area to track the build since it is going to be a hub drive conversion.

Andrew