Hardtail, On/Off-Road - 4.2KW - First Build

Kyle201

10 W
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
80
Location
Alberta, Canada
Hi everyone,

Excited to be joining this small but interesting community pretty soon, and looking for some input before I pull the trigger on my first electric kit.
I'm an experienced mountain biker, looking for something fun to ride around on light trails and roads while my ankle recovers from an injury, and also to commute to work and other places quickly, being able to avoid all the horrible car traffic in my city!!! E bikes just seem like a lot of fun!

My goals for the bike are
- Fast and thrilling when I want it to be, able to do short but sometimes fairly steep hills up to 20% for short distances
- To be used for roads, pathways, and light trails
- 60kph top speed is probably enough
- Comfortable
- Reliable
- As stealthy as possible for the amount of power/speed I'd like to have
- Still have useful pedal input at slower and fast speeds and be able to get good exercise
- To have a minimum range of ~15km going fast
- Highly tuneable
- Safe and easy to use battery chemistry
- Maintain excellent handling characteristics of a good unmodified bicycle as much as possible..
- Waterproof for winter and light rain rides.

Here's the electric kit specs I'm pretty much settled on:

Motor: Crystalyte H4060 laced to wide 24" rim (maybe oil cooled for heat and corrosion resistance)
Controller: Crystalyte 60A Regen Controller 18 - 4115 fets
Battery: 24S - 72v - Headway 40152S 15ah LiFePO4
Cycle analyst: V3
Throttle: Split twist (opinions on throttle types? Thinking split is the best because I can use comfortable silicone or perhaps ergonomic grips for the other half)
Torque arms: Ebike.ca's or maybe custom designed

Regen: Lots of small and sometimes steep hills in my city. Going to start out with a push button activation since I will be using hydraulic brakes, but unsure of how well this will function.. anyone have experience in this area? Would like to have some sort of modulation with this ideally, so as not to ruin proper braking properties for trails and other fast riding.. at least need to be able to adjust the amount of regen. Maybe a second half throttle set up for regen would work really well, but not sure if possible. Can't find much info on regen for ebikes really, anyone know if I will be able to change the level of regen using this controller and the CA V3?? Even the CA V3 manual isn't very clear on this.

Hoping to fit as many of these 24 headway cells in the triangle as I can for handling.. but I'm almost certain not all of them will and will have to somehow mount the rest above the top tube or below the bottom tube. Thinking maybe a falcon or other frame bag?? Or maybe try and do a custom hard case. Perhaps just mount them securely using bolts and lexan or something of the sort, and build a cheap light box out of some painted coroplast and silicone.
Perhaps I will need to install a fan for cooling to run 60A with headways but not sure if necessary.. Hard to find a lot of info on a lot of these things but I've seen a few people say they can handle 3-4C and at 60A I don't think I'm pushing it too much. Surely I won't need to run at the full 60A continuous all or even most of the time either, just want the extra power to be there when I want it.

Love riding bikes in the snow and winter, so hoping this bike will be able to handle it, but very worried about condensation buildup in the motor. I can charge my bike at work, but thinking there might be issues riding in the cold (I currently bike in all weather conditions, and am comfortable riding in -40 even) Thinking I will limit my e-bike exposure to the headway temperature range specs, something like -20C, but what about bringing the bike into a heated garage, or heated shop after riding in the cold. I'm thinking bad corrosion and moisture build up in the motor. But what about charging cold batteries, or just warming and cooling them like that each day. Maybe I need to design a removable pack, to keep and charge in heated places, and then swap it in before riding in the cold to maintain battery range. This seems like a difficult and possibly unviable option though.. Anyone have experiences with winter e-biking??

So now about the bike I will be using for this project.
I've done lots of extreme mountain biking with my other hardtail bike and figure one should work fine for roads even loaded up with batteries and going fast.

Sinister Ridge all mountain hardtail, fairly beefy aluminum frame, nice gussets for strength, 5Lbs frame weight. Really nice tire clearance, manufacturer says it fits up to 26 x 2.6 or 24 x 3.0 tires in the back.

Some specs that the complete project will have:
- Wide Downhill Aluminum bars
- 160mm Travel Ti Coil Freeride Fork
- 203mm rotors
- Shimano Deore Hydraulic brakes
- Cane Creek Thudbuster seatpost for seated comfort
- 24 x 2.4/2.5 rear tire slick/semi-slick tires and will also try a 24 x 3.0 to increase comfort/stability.
- 26 x 2.5 front tire
- Knobby tires at times for trails or snow
- Thinking 2 Chainrings up front for low and high speed pedalling
- Probably 5 Speed Cassette, not sure what will fit with this motor - hopefully more than one speed - and a 135mm dropout frame (don't want to stretch it wider if it can be avoided)

So with 72v and up to 60A, that's up to 4300 watts. I realize this is a lot of power, but I'm currently doing up to 70+ kph on my pedal bike downhill roads and 50+ on certain trails. I want to be sure I'll have enough power for my desires, hopefully do these kind of speeds with stability on flat.

Thoughts on torque arms? I've seen all types of torque arms and I'm not sure what is best. I want to be sure this frame will handle the power.. Is it better to have them extended and mounted down the seat stays or the chain stays? Is there a difference? What about below vs above the tubes, what placement is best? Will some standard torque arms be enough or should I go custom? My frame has square seat/chainstays and I feel like they would be easy to design a very strong torque arm for maybe better than round ones, but not sure if I could build some my self or perhaps find a machine shop to do it... what's that sort of thing cost to have machined anyway?

Anyway, I'm sure I have more thoughts but hopefully someone makes it through all of my ramblings I've already put down, and can provide some good comments or suggestions?? Looking for all the information and help I can get :)

SOO I will finish with some pics of the bike I will use for this project. Thanks for reading.




 
Anyone have any suggestions or comments before I put this order through? I've never done any electrical projects before.

Is it too much power in anyone's opinion for a hardtail frame, too easy to wheelie perhaps - I do want wheelie power though.. as long as it doesn't happen way too easy or anything..

Too much current draw for headways? Might need active cooling?

Ebikes.ca grin torque arms or custom clamps?

Soft frame bag or more solid custom mount?

Will I be able to get up some fairly steep hills with this setup?

Winter e-biking tips to keep it running well??

Appreciate any input!
 
I'm a newb but one thing I can tell you is that much power will give you about 45mph (72 kmh) on a 24inch wheel.

I also wouldn't rush your order until your positive everything matches well together. I ordered my battery before I should have and now I've got a GM 48v 15ah battery that I need to sell lol.

Looks like a great build, love the bike!

Dan L.
 
Build sounds good but if I were you I would change two major things:

Lipo batteries over headways, lighter, potentially cheaper, more power, can fit in triangle

Adaptto mini-e controller with BMS. Faster, smoother, safer in both throttle control and battery monitoring/charging. Also makes it very difficult to kill your motor through overheating. I've got a lyen and crystalyte 18 get here that I won't touch having tried the mini-e, whole other world.

I've got a specialized hard rock comp running an hs3540@84v/60a peak commuting at high speeds and it's awesome. Wish I had gone for the wider motor like you. Hard tail not an issue. I could use more power haha, currently peaking at 5.5kw
 
Ive pretty much got a similar set up as you Same Motor but with 21S Lithium battery from Cellman, I would consider heavier torque arms for that sort of power than any that Grin make, This is my build though currently on hold due to new parts not working i think but take a look at my battery if you like and a few other photos i have up if you like.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59067
 
Danschutz said:
I'm a newb but one thing I can tell you is that much power will give you about 45mph (72 kmh) on a 24inch wheel.

I also wouldn't rush your order until your positive everything matches well together.

Dan L.

What wouldn't match with my current kit choice? I'm buying everything from one seller (except the CAv3) who is supposedly an experienced e-biker (Maxwell), himself using similar kit to what I'm buying, and he's supplying all the wires and everything.

Ohbse said:
Build sounds good but if I were you I would change two major things:

Lipo batteries over headways, lighter, potentially cheaper, more power, can fit in triangle

I really like all of those potential benefits of going to Lipo. But I'm pretty scared of all the stories of fires and explosions. They seem too volatile, I want a safer easier to manage chemistry.. The way the seller explained it to me I can use these cells without a BMS if I manage them somewhat carefully. But even if I don't these shouldn't explode on me unless I get really careless... peace of mind over Lipo.

TotalConfusion said:
Ive pretty much got a similar set up as you Same Motor but with 21S Lithium battery from Cellman, I would consider heavier torque arms for that sort of power than any that Grin make,

Stronger torque arms it is then... anyone know of any pre-made ones that will only need slight or no modification to use on my frame, or do I need to go full custom? Seems like the uniquely square stays on my frame would make it lot better for torque arm attachment... SEATstay or CHAINstay torque arms, does it matter??? Above or below mounted??
 
Lipo is safe if you understand the things, for every horror story there is a large silent majority that have no issues because they take due care and have a well put together pack. With my Adaptto setup I'm monitoring each cell, balancing every charge but most importantly doesn't require any rewiring every time I charge. With no changes being made there's a much lower chance of mistakes. Regardless of battery chemistry I would highly recommend this method of charging!

Have you looked at the lipo options from cell man etc? High current 18650 packs are very safe but still offer some of the advantages I mentioned without the bad reputation of hobby lipo packs.

If I were building again I would not buy a CA, controller and charger and just buy Adaptto up front as it fills all these requirements.
 
Looks like the start of a good plan. 4300 watts on a first build is ambitious. I'd usually tell a noob to go start with a 1500watt peak kit and learn the ropes first, but you seem like you have this well thought out. Just be aware that building a +4kw bike is like wrestling alligators. It'll bite you in the ass if you give it half a chance.

For the torque arms, 4300 watts is going to overpower anything stock. Doctorbass sells a basic torque plate designed to be welded or bonded to your frame, and a set of those would be a good start. I'm using them welded into my frame at +10kwatts, so they hold up. Or you can get a custom set water jetted. not cheap but running at this power level isn't going to be.

As for Lipo avoidance, good choice. Lipo are not safe, and need constant vigilance to keep them tamed. But that is in reference to Lithium cobalt, the common RC lipo. What Cellman/Paul sells are the Samsung ICR18650 cells. Those are NCM cells, Nickel Cobalt Manganese. A relatively safe chemistry not known for exploding or spontaneous fires. technically, they are a lithium polymer (Lipo) though It is very uncommon to use that term for 18650 cells, or for anything outside of LiCo chemistry. The normal term used for the Samsung ICR18650 and INR18650 cells he and others use in their packs is Lithium-Ion.
 
Drunkskunk said:
Looks like the start of a good plan. 4300 watts on a first build is ambitious. I'd usually tell a noob to go start with a 1500watt peak kit and learn the ropes first, but you seem like you have this well thought out. Just be aware that building a +4kw bike is like wrestling alligators. It'll bite you in the ass if you give it half a chance.

For the torque arms, 4300 watts is going to overpower anything stock. Doctorbass sells a basic torque plate designed to be welded or bonded to your frame, and a set of those would be a good start. I'm using them welded into my frame at +10kwatts, so they hold up. Or you can get a custom set water jetted. not cheap but running at this power level isn't going to be.

Hmm, can torque arms be welded to an aluminum frame? From what I've heard alu is not welding friendly.. and also not keen on epoxy bonding... I've read several people saying they just start cracking off.. Maybe some good clamping arms.

And what do you mean exactly about the biting, just handling the power? I have good dirt bike and downhill riding experience.
 
Regen: Lots of small and sometimes steep hills in my city. Going to start out with a push button activation since I will be using hydraulic brakes, but unsure of how well this will function.. anyone have experience in this area? Would like to have some sort of modulation with this ideally, so as not to ruin proper braking properties for trails and other fast riding.. at least need to be able to adjust the amount of regen. Maybe a second half throttle set up for regen would work really well, but not sure if possible. Can't find much info on regen for ebikes really, anyone know if I will be able to change the level of regen using this controller and the CA V3?? Even the CA V3 manual isn't very clear on this.

When I built my ebike I also tried to fine information about it but I didn't find much.
I built an ebike with Electra townie ,cristalyte 3580 , 48v50a cristalyte controller with apm display and 48v22.5ah li ion battery.

the regen is working very well. I can't really tell how it recharge but one thing is for sure...its slows the bike instantly and improve braking . don't bother with hydraulic braking I use the most basic breaks that came with the Towine without any problem.
 
Probably 5 Speed Cassette, not sure what will fit with this motor - hopefully more than one speed - and a 135mm dropout frame (don't want to stretch it wider if it can be avoided)
I also wanted to use the 4080 but Kenny from cristalyte told me that 5 or 7 speed cassette wont fit in 135mm. this is why I went for the 3580. That was a mistake becasue after 2 sec I pass the pedaling speed and I dont use the pedals anyway so for my next bulid I plan to use single spped only and not bother with the shifters that I dont use anyway.
 
Kyle201 said:
Hmm, can torque arms be welded to an aluminum frame? From what I've heard alu is not welding friendly.. and also not keen on epoxy bonding... I've read several people saying they just start cracking off.. Maybe some good clamping arms.

And what do you mean exactly about the biting, just handling the power? I have good dirt bike and downhill riding experience.

If you've got aluminum, then welding is out. the Epoxy works when done right, but that's tricky. A clamping dropout of some form would be best. The important thing here is that you have something to take the torque, because the bike frame can't.

The biting you part is just that. A normal bike is designed for human power. 100 watts normal, 500 watts peak if you're a world class athlete. A DH is going to have a lot of redundant strength built in because the terrain demands it, but even then, it's probably just twice as strong as a normal mountain bike. So you're putting 4.3 times more power into a bike than it was ever designed for. It will be capable of more speed for more time than it was ever designed for.

When you double the speed you square the kinetic energy. So if you jump the bike's normal speed from 20kph to 40kph, all the parts have to survive 4 times more force than they did before. If you jump to 50kph, you will have 6.25 times more force on the parts than they did at 20kph.
All that extra force can break parts you weren't expecting. bolts rattle lose, nuts fall off, brakes boil and fade, tires blister, spokes and rims break, bearings fail, shocks blow out there seals, frames crack.

And that's how you get bit. Some part that was fine under human power just can't keep up with the increase in power.
The way to mostly avoid getting bit is to identify any weak points in your bike and fix or upgrade them before they become a problem.
 
Thanks for the advice drunkskunk.

Okay. I'm realizing now that the torque arms will be the trickiest part of this project.. I have some 3D modelling experience, maybe that will come in handy for this, and I can get some waterjet cut arms, or as I've seen some people do, just build some clamping arms from hardware store bits? Is it a good idea to have some bolts for the clamps going through the 3 holes near my dropouts?

I feel like I have a good start with my bikes current spec... DH handlebars, DH stem, Freeride $1000 msrp suspension fork. I have extensive experience riding extreme mountain trails, and feel that even 60kph on a road is nowhere near the stress on the bike of riding 30kph+ on super rough, steep, rooty rocky shit with hardtails, doing jumps and drops too. That is, besides the power torque, but some good torque arms should deal with that.. Especially since my Ebike will have a 3" rear tire likely, and probably a suspension seatpost with 70mm travel.

The pre-ride tune-up and inspection will become much more important now with an ebike I see as well.

Anyone know how many speeds the H40 series can fit on 135mm dropouts??? Anyone have tips on oil cooling? Winter riding?
 
So with my 72v 15AH battery pack, that gives me 1080 watt hours. Does that mean if I run this setup full power around 4000w, I will completely drain the battery in 15 minutes or less??
 
You're technically correct, if somehow you managed to maintain a 4kw draw for 15 minutes - your battery would be flat. You would also be dead, your motor would be a molten pile of mush and all your wiring would probably have melted haha. Reality is far, far removed from the basic maths. Your duty cycle is going to be much less than 100% unless you're on an endless flat road with high speed limits. In city situation I get 25km in high speed/reasonably aggressive riding from 72v 10ah of lipo. You will get something like 40km range at sane speeds with 15ah. I wouldn't recommend running battery from full to flat every time though, shallow charge cycles are important for extending battery lifespan.

I actually just oil cooled my HS3540 and it's awesome. Dropped temperatures at the end of my ride by ~40 degrees C! I suspect you won't need additional cooling with the larger motor unless you're much crazier than I am.

I also just made replacement torque arms. I was previously using some commonly available store bought options that really weren't up to the power I was using. My new ones are cut from 10mm steel plate using basic tools (grinder, drill and files) and clamp on the axle and are restrained by basic hose clamps to resist the torque. I designed them using sketchup, printing them in 1:1 scale and mocked up on the bike, making several changes before I was happy. I'm confident you could do the same and end up with something to suit your frame specifically.
 
Thanks for the input Ohbse. Do you have any pictures of the torque arms you made?? Do you think hose clamps would be enough for my power levels? Thinking I might need a more solid connection.

I made my order today, I'm wondering if I should bother trying to design the torque arms now, or wait until I get the motor at least to know the width I can make them? How wide are the axles even?

Hmm, I wonder what my range would be like with some hills. And I guess I won't really be pulling full power often then.. or even need it, maybe for a few seconds on the steepest hills? I wonder how steep of hills I could conquer with this setup, being a direct drive motor.. I'm a very athletic pedaler, I'm sure would increase range a fair bit too.. There is quite a lot of hills in my city, up to 150m ascent over a few km. Might still need the oil cooling, at least some oil in the motor will be really useful to prevent corrosion, especially in winter.

Does anyone here even ride their ebike's in winter? I'm riding into -40C strong wind conditions as it is, so weather is never a physical comfort issue as long as the bike can handle it.. doubt it would be a good idea to go quite that cold with an ebike though.
 
-40*C thats crazy!
You would be requed to change all the grease to low temperature grease in all bearings also isolate and heat the battery pack and controller.
And i don't know if a CAv3 would work in that cold.
 
Kyle201 said:
Anyone know how many speeds the H40 series can fit on 135mm dropouts???

Ive got a H40 Motor with a 5 speed on it and it fits fine in my 135mm dropouts, I can use all 5 gears and by the looks of it i could maybe had gone the 6 Speed but i didnt want to stretch my Aluminium triangle at all but i have a 10mm gap from the last gear to the frame, MAybe i could have fitted an extra one on.
 
You want a "stealthy bike". How do you hide that monstrous battery pack?

You want to pedal at 50-60kph with a 5-speed freewheel and a rear24" tire. How?

You want to use headway cells without a BMS? Good Luck! They are known for quite bad cell voltage drifting.

Any thoughts on water proofing your setup if you want to ride in the rain?
 
Cephalotus said:
You want a "stealthy bike". How do you hide that monstrous battery pack?

Well, as stealthy as it can be... I know the battery pack will be quite large, perhaps just make the battery enclosure grey to blend in with my frame at least.

Cephalotus said:
You want to pedal at 50-60kph with a 5-speed freewheel and a rear24" tire. How?

Hmm, I figure maybe with 2 chain rings up front, the larger being perhaps 44t or 48t I should be able to pedal at those speeds. With a 24 x 3" tire the diameter should be similar 26 x 2.5ish tire.

Cephalotus said:
You want to use headway cells without a BMS? Good Luck! They are known for quite bad cell voltage drifting.

Are they really so bad without bms? The seller I'm buying from seems pretty confident that I can run safely without a BMS, and gave me a huge set of information on how to do it. He claims he will charge and top them all off and root out any defective cells first of all, and with a CAv3 I should have low voltage control using that? Perhaps also have individual cell voltage monitors might be a good idea also?

Cephalotus said:
Any thoughts on water proofing your setup if you want to ride in the rain?

Not super sure about this yet. I'm new to all this, but I might build the battery enclosure out of coroplast, with silicone seams, and probably silicone on all the connections. I'm much more interested in riding in winter then rain however so I appreciate tips from anyone on how to achieve this! I think I might need to design the battery pack and controller to be easily swapped in and out to keep heated before going out in winter conditions?? Anyone have ideas on this?
 
Kyle201 said:
Well, as stealthy as it can be... I know the battery pack will be quite large, perhaps just make the battery enclosure grey to blend in with my frame at least.

Where are you going to mount it? At the rear?

Hmm, I figure maybe with 2 chain rings up front, the larger being perhaps 44t or 48t I should be able to pedal at those speeds. With a 24 x 3" tire the diameter should be similar 26 x 2.5ish tire.

60kph = 1000m/min. With a rear wheel circumference of 2m this translates to 500rpm at the rear wheel.
44/11 gearing translates to 125rpm at the crank. IF you can find a freewheel with 11 tooth. At 44/14 we are talking about 159rpm. I am not able to pedal that fast and it also does not look "real". Maybe a 53/39 crank set from a racing bike will fit your frame?
At least this is something I would think about if you want to make an e-bike that you can add some human power at higher speeds.
It's done easier at 50kph.

At such speeds a slimmer 1000-1500W motor should suffice. But this is not a high power "motorcycle" anymore of course and may not suit your 20° grade hills (really so step and for how long?) as well.

Are they really so bad without bms? The seller I'm buying from seems pretty confident that I can run safely without a BMS, and gave me a huge set of information on how to do it. He claims he will charge and top them all off and root out any defective cells first of all, and with a CAv3 I should have low voltage control using that? Perhaps also have individual cell voltage monitors might be a good idea also?

I don't have first hand experience. I prefer 18650 LiMn2O4 cells over large LiFePO4 cells because those do not need a BMS, weight a lot less and it's much easier to make smaller batteries with smaller cells. From what I know headway cells dis-balance quickly because of quite different self discharge rates between those cells. Maybe they are available in different qualities? As I said, no first hand experience, just what others say.
On the other hand my Sony and Sanyo LiMn204 cells are now 5 years / 3 years old and within 0,03V / 0,02V in balance and I used them up to 4C / 2C.
They are more expensive thuogh and not very common over here with the high power ebikes.

If you don't use a BMS still add balancing cables, that you can quickly check your cell voltages from time to time!


Not super sure about this yet. I'm new to all this, but I might build the battery enclosure out of coroplast, with silicone seams, and probably silicone on all the connections. I'm much more interested in riding in winter then rain however so I appreciate tips from anyone on how to achieve this!

1. make the battery detachable and bring it inside while not in use or you have to keep your entire bike warm during storage.
2. You need warm clothes, especially gloves.
3. I use spikes tires from Finland based Nokian which are expensive but very good. I'm not sure if the are able to survive 4000W and I'm not sure if they are available in 24" size.
4. Salt kills your chain quickly. Also other parts of your bike will rust easily. I spray stuff called liquid fluid (some kind of liquid wool wax) inside my frames to protect them against corrosion. I use a lot of grease on the screws, I use old/used chains and let them die on my winter bikes, etc...
5. You need good lights. I use real bike lights with reflectors that do not blind other people. Philips Saferide 80 is an excellent light, but expensive. Works from 6V to 48V afair. It's also available with 4x AA cells. Use Sanyo eneloop NiMh batteries. Reflectors are helpful, too. Your bike already has some.
6. I use fenders. Keep lots of space between tire and fender, otherwise you get problems with snow.
7. Snow can/will block your gear shifter
8. I used rim brakes but they are shit during winter. Will try another bike with (hydraulic) disc brakes for next winter. You have them already.
9. My winter bike has a (500W only) front wheel drive with current regulated throttle. Incl. my own power his makes an excellent 2WD setup for winter use. Using two small motors for a 2WD could be the optimum, but I assume that you will have to use what you have. So far I have no experience with high power rear drives in the winter. I will try a BionX rear motor (max 1300W) next winter.
10. I had bad corrosion in one of my small motors (Cute 85) during winter. Try to seal it on the cable entrance with grease, etc...

Enjoy the look of people barely be able to move by foot on ice covered roads while you are driving past them on your spike tires. Don't fall if you get of your bike and your non spiked shoes slip at the icy ground
 
@ Cephalotus

Battery will be mostly in the front triangle, though with this amount of cells some will need to go above the triangle probably.

I'm not so sure I need such a huge chainring though! With my current 26" pedal bike I can do about 55kph at near max cadence using 36 x 11 gearing.

About the winter usage, I'm very experienced riding all winter long using my pedal bike, looking for more e-bike specific tips for winter. I can keep my e-bike in a heated garage and a heated shop at work between commuting and uses, but I'm worried about condensation inside the motor, controller, and other places? I think oil cooling the motor might help a lot for the condensation there... but not sure about the controller. How bad are the rapid temperature changes for wires, cycle analyst, and batteries also? Not good I would imagine..

2WD would be pretty fun and awesome in the winter! But perhaps for another project one day.
 
Kyle201 said:
but I'm worried about condensation inside the motor, controller, and other places?...

Condensation is no problem.

When you drinving a warm motor through cold air no condensation will occur.

If you bring a cold motor into the warmth condensation can occir, but only on the outside.

there is only one special situation when condestion will happen inside a motor and you need exactly the floowing steps.

You have a warm motor and put them outside in moist climate-> the motor cools down and humid air will be sucked inside the motor because of pressure difference(so far no problem)
-> with this humid air inside the motor it needs to cool down further (significantly below the temperature when the humid air was sucked inside the motor) and in that situation condensation will occur inside.

An example: you ride your bike through a rainy summer day, the motor gets hot and at the evening your a placing your hot motor outside. Warm and humid air will be sucked inside the motor. During the night the sky clears and you get a significant further temperature drop -> Now you have condensation inside the motor.

In my humble opinion this is more a summer problem than a winter problem.

In case of the batteries. don't let them cool down to far. They will warm themselves during riding, so if you have some insulation around your battery they should be fine. they only get cold when placed outside without using them.

Can't comment on the CA.

The controller will like the coldness.
 
Another option is battery warmers and good insulation around the batteries. Even if you have heated spaces before and after your ride, the batteries will quickly lose that heat once you are outside. Insulation will help. Battery warmers will help even more. There are at least a couple of builds on this forum that use battery warmers that you can search for.

I'm using lipos and notice a huge difference in battery performance between summer and winter riding. I'm planning an insulated battery box build with warmers before the cold weather sets in.
 
Sounds like a great idea for winter, I'll have to definitely get some heating pads and insulation for this winter. Anyone have heated seats and grip setup? Sounds like I just might be able to accomplish some -30 e-biking after all... but what about controllers, how cold is too cold... perhaps I will need to heat the controller too in sub -20c temps?

Any other thoughts on general winter electronics maintenance??

or thoughts on motor oil cooling? Volumes and oil type?? I see most people just do breather holes, but add a tube going 90 degrees after the hole and it should keep out all the water and snow and still be able to vent vapours! Oil cooling in very cold temperatures, can a motor be too cold?

Ideas on quickly swappable controllers and battery packs for indoor heating and charging during winter. Bad idea to charge a cold battery?
 
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