What to get for my commute

My commute is 17 miles each way, including 12 miles on a highway without a bike lane, so I will be riding on the shoulder, followed by 5 city miles with 25-35mph speed limits, fairly decent pavement all the way to work. I'd like to get a bike that can go at least 30-40mph to keep up with city traffic and reduce my commute time.

I currently have a low end cyclocross bike(Motobecane Fantom CX), it has 2x9 gearing, no suspension, 26" wheels, and cantilever brakes, Ideally I'd like to just add a conversion kit to this, but at speeds exceeding 30mph it might be a good idea for me to look into a bike with at least front suspension and disc brakes? That's something I need help deciding though, and if I were to get a different bike, what type of bike?

I have never put an electric bike kit together and have not done a lot of bike mechanicing either, but I'm good at following youtube videos, and have a decent amount of tools, alan wrenches, wrenches, bike multitool, electrical odds and ends, etc.
there are a few LBS near me that fix bikes, they don't have any electric bikes and I'm not sure if they will work on them.

My budget is $500-$2500 depending on what all I'm buying. I will spend up to $1000 for a good conversion kit, up to $750 for a good battery, and up to $750 for a good bike. I understand value and want to get a good deal, whatever it is I buy.

What I've been looking at so far,
8fun BBS02 750watt - seems like I can get it for $500-$800 depending on the seller.
would this be a good option?
who is the best seller? em3ev? ebay? someone else? I don't need to receive this till around march, since I don't plan on biking until the snow and ice are gone, so an out of country dealer is an option if they have good support(I live in United States)
I think it would work on my current bike and just change the gears from 2x9 to 1x9, is this correct?

500-1000 watt conversion kit from ebikekit.com - $674-$774 depending on direct drive or geared
Would I want direct drive or geared? it seems like the direct drive has an option for a 9 speed freewheel like I already have on my current bike.
Would this be a good Option?

1000 watt generic conversion kits from Ebay - $240-$300
is it worth it to take the risk of buying from a generic seller?
is there reputable sellers that anyone can recommend?

Is there a better option than these? what should I go with?

For batteries: I think 15+AH would be good since I need to go 34 miles per charge at around 30mph,
I also want to get some type of lithium battery since lead acid seems to be too heavy.
Maybe it would be best to find a kit that came with a battery?
recommendations?

If I need a different bike, what would I want?
Front suspension? Full Suspension? Disc Brakes? What tires?

thank you all for your time and I appreciate any help I can get

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=64444&p=975315&hilit=30+miles+30mph#p975315

I have a much shorter commute (12 miles round trip) but the type of roads are similar to what you described. Ended up buying a bike from Performance Bikes that was on sale ($600). 29 inch wheels, hard tail with front suspension. If you're planning on doing 30mph disc brakes are a necessity, IMO.

Purchased the BBS02 (48V 750W) from em3ev.com and have been happy with the price/service. Ordered the largest battery they offered (50V, 22Ah (29E)), which easily did 3 round trips, so it would work for your distance needs. The battery fit nicely in a pack mounted on a seat post rack. Unclips in a second so I can take it into the office. Total for the kit with battery was $1500 delivered.

If you go the BBS02 route, you need to be aware of the width of the bottom bracket. It ideally fits a 68mm wide bottom bracket (where the crank/pedals go through the frame). The bike I purchased has a 73mm bottom bracket, which fits but did need some mods and is not centered. I like the BBS02 and em3ev.com as it's very efficient, using the bikes gearing, and very stealthy. The bike looks like a normal bike. I did clean up the wiring in the picture... just needed to lengthen the cable. And yes I fixed the chain, installing a longer one.



Decided the battery is too big for the short daily commute (will keep it for longer rides), so I purchased a second 46.8V (13S) Samsung Frame Pack & Charger. The following picture shows how the battery mounts on the frame. I like the fact that it locks to the bike and again is removable in a second.



Here's a good site with lots of pictures and helpful information: https://www.electricbike.com/bafang-bbso2-750w-mid-drive/

So my all in cost for the kit, bike, large battery with all the goodies was around $2700, including LED lights, Kryptonite locks & cables, seat post suspension system, seat post rack with bag, mirrors, etc. Very, very happy with the purchase.

Haven't gotten around to re-programming the unit to allow higher speeds (limited to 40kph or 25mph). I can tell the unit would easily pull 30mph all day long on a flat road, with the limit raised.

Crazy thing is that my commute on the bicycle is actually 5 minutes quicker than using the motorcycle, with traffic and lights.

scfoster said:

I have a much shorter commute (12 miles round trip) but the type of roads are similar to what you described. Ended up buying a bike from Performance Bikes that was on sale ($600). 29 inch wheels, hard tail with front suspension. If you're planning on doing 30mph disc brakes are a necessity, IMO.

Purchased the BBS02 (48V 750W) from em3ev.com and have been happy with the price/service. Ordered the largest battery they offered (50V, 22Ah (29E)), which easily did 3 round trips, so it would work for your distance needs. The battery fit nicely in a pack mounted on a seat post rack. Unclips in a second so I can take it into the office. Total for the kit with battery was $1500 delivered.

If you go the BBS02 route, you need to be aware of the width of the bottom bracket. It ideally fits a 68mm wide bottom bracket (where the crank/pedals go through the frame). The bike I purchased has a 73mm bottom bracket, which fits but did need some mods and is not centered. I like the BBS02 and em3ev.com as it's very efficient, using the bikes gearing, and very stealthy. The bike looks like a normal bike. I did clean up the wiring in the picture... just needed to lengthen the cable. And yes I fixed the chain, installing a longer one.

Decided the battery is too big for the short daily commute (will keep it for longer rides), so I purchased a second 46.8V (13S) Samsung Frame Pack & Charger. The following picture shows how the battery mounts on the frame. I like the fact that it locks to the bike and again is removable in a second.

Here's a good site with lots of pictures and helpful information: https://www.electricbike.com/bafang-bbso2-750w-mid-drive/

So my all in cost for the kit, bike, large battery with all the goodies was around $2700, including LED lights, Kryptonite locks & cables, seat post suspension system, seat post rack with bag, mirrors, etc. Very, very happy with the purchase.

Haven't gotten around to re-programming the unit to allow higher speeds (limited to 40kph or 25mph). I can tell the unit would easily pull 30mph all day long on a flat road, with the limit raised.

Crazy thing is that my commute on the bicycle is actually 5 minutes quicker than using the motorcycle, with traffic and lights.

Click to expand...

your bike looks badass, thanks for showing me your awesome build. I definitely don't want a huge battery like that, if I got a battery like the 2nd one, do you think it would make it 17 miles? I could then charge the battery at work and at home since it's easy to remove and charge. Also, how necessary do you think the front suspension is? do you notice it much?

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Take your pick.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=48v+1000w+rear&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

If you were willing, or it was safer to ride 25 mph, I wouldn't say get a regular motorcycle. 17 miles keeping up with traffic will require a really big battery.

At the very least, consider motorcycle or scooter tires.

Maybe I just misunderstand your needs, some of the kits you mentioned cannot go faster than 30 mph without modification to high voltage. 48v 15 ah would get you 17 miles at 27-28 mph. Double that, to go 30 mph both ways.

That's a tough ask. Speed is the enemy of range.

Your commute is roughly 55 km which means you need a battery to give you a minimum of 66km - ideally 80km to allow for adverse weather conditions.

I think that you probably need a 1.6 KW/hr battery if you confine your speed to about 40 km/hr (roughly 25 mph) but that would give you very little reserve. Ideally, you'd want a 2KW/hr pack to make everything bomb-proof and give you a 20 per cent reserve.

The biggest commercially available battery that I know of that will fit into a bicycle triangle is cell_man's 1.25 KW/hr pack though it might be possible to make a slightly larger one that still fits the triangle bag at 1.5KW/hr. In my opinion that's still not going to be enough.

If I was to do what you are doing I would probably get two batteries. Put the 1.25KW/hr pack into the triangle and put another 1.1KW/hr pack into a handlebar mounted box. That would give me 2.35KW/hr and the 12kg worth of battery would be in a good riding position. Under ideal conditions a battery that large would give you a range of 120km (80miles) at 40kph if you were to fully charge and discharge it.

A suspension bike or at least a hardtail is almost mandatory at such speeds along with balloon tyres. 2.35KW/hrs gives you 1.88KW/hr of battery with a 20 per cent reserve. That NCA chemistry should last at least a decade if not more and because there is so much reserve I wouldn't be surprised if you could make that commute for 20 years or more if those Samsung batteries are even half as good as their Panasonic equivalent.

Things become more easier and cheaper if you can charge at work.

I don't think a motorcycle is necessary either. Got one of those and for some reason riding the ebike is more fun.

Here's an updated picture with the "smaller" frame mount battery. The reason I didn't go the this route in the first place was I already had a Carbon Frame Cannondale that ended up not working with the BBS02 (can you say Spring Hub Motor project?).

The frame mount battery is great as it has a key lock for short-term parking. I wouldn't leave it on there all day outside; I take it into the office and can recharge it there during daily commutes.

Added handlebar end mirrors (necessity for City street commuting), front and rear fenders and the Suntour NCX SP12 seat post suspension system.

Jeremy E. said:

For batteries: I think 15+AH would be good since I need to go 34 miles per charge at around 30mph,

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For me, an average speed of less than 20MPH, flat roads, for a 28 mile round trip, it takes about 16Ah, for around 30wh/mile with a lot of stops and starts--a few wh/mile less if I don't have to stop much. See here for that example:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12500&start=1025#p962938

Going 30MPH for that distance will use up MUCH more power, even if you don't have to stop and start much, even with a lighter bike that only uses one motor (mine is heavy and uses two).

Here's one example thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61212

The combined batteries I used on that trip weigh more than 35lbs: about 15lbs for the 10Ah (in a 7.62 ammocan), and a little more than 20lbs for the 20Ah (in a 50cal ammocan). Between them I figure I have 22-24Ah of usable capacity. They are both lighter lithium types, too (10Ah RC LiPo, 20Ah EIG NMC).

A battery big enough to do what you want is going to have to be larger/heavier than this.

At a guess you'll need up to twice as much power vs what I used above, depending on the wind resistance of you and your bike, and the combined weight you have vs number of stops and starts. The simulator at http://ebikes.ca/simulator might help you see which type of motor/battery/controller combination would do best for what you need, but it takes some playing with to learn what you're seeing and how to relate it to your actual trip usage.

You'll need a minimum size of controller to run your bike as fast as you want to go, depending on what motor type and wheel size you use (assuming hubmotor), and as long as you don't need quick acceleration you can limit the power usage on startups and extend your range some. Using less throttle on startups can also help. (when I setup mine with higher power controllers and better connections it notably increased my power consumption by a few Wh/mile on my short work commute with lots of stops and starts).


Pedalling can help, too, but you may need a bigger front chainring to add any significant power at higher speeds (and it is a lot of effort to pedal that hard, too).

em3ev sells the BBS02 with a 24.8 AH triangle battery, $1440 total cost, would that be a good set up? Also if the battery is easily removable and it's okay to remove them every day then I could charge the battery at work effectively making the battery only need to last 17 miles. Are all batteries easy to remove? and does it cause issues with them if you constantly are taking them off and on?
I don't think motorcycle tires will fit on my current bike, it also would cost a lot to add disc brakes and I think I will also want front suspension so I will probably just buy a new bike. What type of bike can fit motorcycle tires? If I go with the BBS02 it can't have too big of a bottom bracket

Jeremy E. said:

em3ev sells the BBS02 with a 24.8 AH triangle battery, $1440 total cost, would that be a good set up? Also if the battery is easily removable and it's okay to remove them every day then I could charge the battery at work effectively making the battery only need to last 17 miles. Are all batteries easy to remove? and does it cause issues with them if you constantly are taking them off and on?
I don't think motorcycle tires will fit on my current bike, it also would cost a lot to add disc brakes and I think I will also want front suspension so I will probably just buy a new bike. What type of bike can fit motorcycle tires? If I go with the BBS02 it can't have too big of a bottom bracket

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It would probably take you about three minutes to remove the battery from the bag. That's the 1.25 KW/hr pack I mentioned above. I'm not sure that the bottom bracket motor will give you the speeds that you want. I would choose a MAC if you are going to be travelling at 40kph. It's more powerful and can be fed more watts. The BBS02 won't breakdown but the controller will restrict the power to about 700 watts peak, there or there abouts. The MAC will give you about 1,500 watts peak with a 30 amp controller. With the BB motor you won't be able to go at 40 kph up hills and into stiff winds as that will require more watts than the motor can safely take. The MAC will give you more speed under the same adverse conditions.

I'd also suggest a 10 turn rather than an eight turn. The ten turn is more efficient at 40 kph, or slower, than the eight. The only downside is that the ten turn is slower. 44kph versus about 48kph (26mph versus 30 mph). The ten turn has got faster acceleration but the eight turn is no slouch either.

If you are only going to cruise at about 40kph then normal bicycle tyres should be fine. A good kelvar-lined balloon tyre like a Schwalbe Big Apple will cushion the ride but a hard tail is probably minimum at those speeds.

Let me throw my noobish thoughts out there. I bought a Yescom 48v 1000w kit and a 48v 15ah battery. My roundtrip commute is 13 miles. I ride woy the WHOLE way and with a 15ah battery I wouldnt want to push it more than that. However, I have gotten 22 miles from start voltage to cutoff. I do not recommend this though, it will shorten the pack life.

I think you could get away with a bbs02 kit with a 50v15ah battery from em3ev as long as you pedal with your bike and try to keep the max speed to 25mph. This Suggestion is just from what I have read about that setup not personal experience.

If I were you I would listen carefully to the guys on this forum their input is invaluable and has helped me 1) pick a awesome setup and 2) save me tons of money. Especially,Wesnewell. He knows how to save a buck which I appreciate

The bbso2 setup would require to charge at work if possible.

To clarify, I do recommend a bike for 25-30 mph travel.

I'm trying to talk him out of 40 mph, or talk him into a motorcycle if keeping up with traffic, AND not riding an illegal vehicle is the priority. I personally do not advocate using an unregistered, illegal, homemade motorcycle with pedals for a commute. For off road, for the race track, HELL YEAH! But not for a daily ride with cops watching. You should be safer keeping up with traffic, but not if the cops are on you for it.

Hell, a 25 mph ebike may be illegal where he lives. But if so, likely 25 mph cruising won't be a problem in most places. Looking like a bike, traveling bike speeds, you don't stick out like you do flying along at 40. ALL those cars trying their best to kill you won't expect a bike to go that fast. At least on a motorcycle you look like you will be fast.

Bafang bottom bracket motor should do 25 mph no problem, and 17 miles will go fine at that speed on 48v 15 ah, or any other 750 wh battery. 1000wh for a commute closer to 30 mph. You'll need a solid 20% extra for a daily grind to work. Some days, weather will make even that not enough.

But if you do need 35-40 mph for five miles, it will take a lot of wh. 500wh for just that 5 miles IMO. In general, 40 mph with a hubmotor is a 72v bike. But 30 mph is quite possible with 48v. You just need a 10x6 motor vs the typical 9x7 winding that will run about 27 mph.

I've decided I'll get the bbs02, I'll keep the speed at 25mph or less. I think I'd like an easily removable battery that can fit securely inside my frame(a downtube battery seems to be the only option), at least 48v 15ah(to make it 17 miles to my work) I've only been able to find 1 battery like this and it's on aliexpress which is pretty sketchy from what I hear. Does anyone have any experience with buying on aliexpress, or have other ideas for me?

Jeremy E. said:

I've decided I'll get the bbs02, I'll keep the speed at 25mph or less. I think I'd like an easily removable battery that can fit securely inside my frame(a downtube battery seems to be the only option), at least 48v 15ah(to make it 17 miles to my work) I've only been able to find 1 battery like this and it's on aliexpress which is pretty sketchy from what I hear. Does anyone have any experience with buying on aliexpress, or have other ideas for me?

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It all depends on how long you want the battery to last. Basically, you need to do a cost/benefit analysis and compare anticipated use and lifespan. A really good battery chemistry and a solid retailer should mean at least a decade of use. It's unlikely unknown sellers will last anywhere near that.

It all comes down to cost and projected usage and anticipated savings. You should probably also factor in a year or two of very low petrol prices as OPEC tries to drive US oil companies out of business. However, that Indian summer of price relief is not sustainable and in a year or two from now prices will recover dramatically.

Whatever choice you do decide make sure it isn't RC Lipo if you are going to be charging at work as you will be putting other peoples' lives at risk.

There is a guy on this forum who sells a top-quality German triangle mount bag that can be easily taken off in a few seconds. For balance purposes you could get a battery split into two parts. The bag should be large enough to squeeze in 1.5 KW/hr of battery never mind your expected 750 watt hours.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=57623

Edit: Forgot to say if you are going to be purchasing the BB02 from Paul, getting the battery from the same vendor would mean the entire thing would be plug and play.

Good choices. 25 mph for 17 miles is still quite a fast ride, one that beats the hell out of a bike, but can be sustained for years with some regular tuning. It's not like 35mph would be. Tires will be ok, regular brakes will be ok, etc.


At 25 mph, you'd make it on less than 48v 15 ah. But not every day of the year. When you have a headwind, you will need all 15 ah.

You might consider some kind of spare, emergency battery. Some tiny thing you can limp home on, on a windy day. A lawn mower lithium battery would be perfect for that.

Or, screw it whether the battery fits in some metal box. Get a frame bag from EM3ev. They are great, very rugged and protects the battery well. 48v 15 fits in one easy.

FWIW, carrying 48v 20ah of limn on a rear rack can work fine. Less than 15 pounds, so not too bad to carry there commuting. It would suck balls for off road riding, but for commuting no problem.

I can't recommend Paul at em3ev.com enough. If you get everything from the same vendor, then any issues will be easier to correct. I ordered two chargers from Paul so I could charge the battery at office if necessary.

One of the chargers had an issue with a status light. He gave me a full refund on the charger. It's what the vendor does when there are issues that tell you everything you need to know.

Jeremy,

Be sure to invest in some high quality Kevlar tires and thicker slime tire tubes. Makes a world of difference.

Having a flat tire on an ebike is a pain. Imo

My commute is 17 to 19 miles each way depending on current detours from road work going on. I could make it both ways if need be, but I charge at work. I run 40Ah of 12s. Speed is around 28 to 30. Average moving speed is 25 or 26. Takes me 38 minutes or so on my commute each way. Controller swap should gain me a few mph by spring. Around 6,500 miles so far this year, and if the weather breaks I'll hopefully be close to 7k before 2014 wraps up.