First Timer Conversion Kit Advice

Hi All, new to the forums and to ebikes in general. I'm mildly mechanically inclined, but as this is my first go at it, I'd like an all in one kit, or I could buy the battery separately if I had some advice on the brands / stores to buy from. Here's what I'm looking for:

Rider Weight: 180lbs
Max Speed: 20-25mph
Max Range: 15+ miles
26" Wheel, not disc brake.
Budget: $700 (preferably under if possible)

Main uses:
1. I have a 15 mile commute, the first 1.5 of which is a downhill mountain road (~8% grade). Even with an ebike it would probably take a little too much time to do regularly, BUT I can drive down to a (mostly paved) trail a few miles from my house, and then have a nice scenic 10 mile commute by bike from there. Then maybe if I get comfortable with that I can throw in the full 15 mile bike commute occasionally. Just need to make sure to save some juice for the 1.5 mile uphill at the end!

I should be able to charge at work, so only really need a max of 15 miles (combined battery and man-power) in this case. I could easily do a few miles of pedaling myself.

2. I'd really like to bike around the mountain roads by my house, but the uphills are killer. So if I could get a little electrical help I'd definitely do more biking. It would be OK if I had to do some of the work.

The mountain road is something like 2.5 miles @ 6% grade up, 5 miles @ 3% down, and back again. Don't necessarily have to do the whole thing...just as much as I have the battery for!

My first impressions are that I'm looking for something like 500W + 36V + 10Ah, is that in the right ball park? If you could point me to a specific kit / seller that would be excellent.

Thanks for any advice you can give!

mancuz28 said:

Hi All, new to the forums and to ebikes in general. I'm mildly mechanically inclined, but as this is my first go at it, I'd like an all in one kit, or I could buy the battery separately if I had some advice on the brands / stores to buy from. Here's what I'm looking for:

Rider Weight: 180lbs
Max Speed: 20-25mph
Max Range: 15+ miles
26" Wheel, not disc brake.
Budget: $700 (preferably under if possible)

Main uses:
1. I have a 15 mile commute, the first 1.5 of which is a downhill mountain road (~8% grade). Even with an ebike it would probably take a little too much time to do regularly, BUT I can drive down to a (mostly paved) trail a few miles from my house, and then have a nice scenic 10 mile commute by bike from there. Then maybe if I get comfortable with that I can throw in the full 15 mile bike commute occasionally. Just need to make sure to save some juice for the 1.5 mile uphill at the end!

I should be able to charge at work, so only really need a max of 15 miles (combined battery and man-power) in this case. I could easily do a few miles of pedaling myself.

2. I'd really like to bike around the mountain roads by my house, but the uphills are killer. So if I could get a little electrical help I'd definitely do more biking. It would be OK if I had to do some of the work.

The mountain road is something like 2.5 miles @ 6% grade up, 5 miles @ 3% down, and back again. Don't necessarily have to do the whole thing...just as much as I have the battery for!

My first impressions are that I'm looking for something like 500W + 36V + 10Ah, is that in the right ball park? If you could point me to a specific kit / seller that would be excellent.

Thanks for any advice you can give!

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Sounds like a great place to Etrailbike! Why don't you fill out your profile so we can know where you are lucky to be.
And another piece of info is missing, you're bike! What is it?
There are a number of ways to go;
Central motor or rear geared hub motor for starters?
But, your budget pretty much is going to point in one direction.
500W geared motor. But which one.
There are two tiers of motors and vendors.
First tier- Motors like Mac, Ezee and Bmc. Top suppliers like Grin/Ebike CA who offer real support, or
Second tier-Bafang Motor and three vendors in China.
The Bafangs(and a few others), are not really a lesser product(in some small ways, usually doesn't effect most folks), but do not expect support from the vendors. The info they supply is very not very reliable, so one better know what they want. Returns are not an option, but partial refunds sometimes are.
To key to building a good budget Ebike using this stuff is knowledge, your knowledge. But these Chinese vendors are getting better all the time and ordering from them is not quite the crap shoot it used to be. They are BMS Battery, Elifebikes and Greenbikekit. BMS B. is the biggie.
Because you are not going to able to order everything as "one" kit, you will need to mix and match a bit. For a "kit", you need to go to a "First tier" vendor and pay a preimum. There is a guy in China, Paul @ EM3ev, who could help you put together a nice package, but you would need to increase your budget. If you want to order direct from the Chinaese, folks here can input the "best" combos.
Basicly, I think a route you might want to consider is a 500W rear geared motor like the BMP, a 25 to 30 Amp controller, all on 48V.
You want the lowest speed motor s possible, which limits top speed, so 48V, which should put the bike into the low 20's mph.
There is a ton of info here and once you enter a key search-word, it will lead you to more and more reading.

I also would recommend going to the Ebike CA site and play with their Sim. Plug in different motors and learn the relationship of low-speed running(climbing hills)and overheat times. It's why you want to use a low speed(wind)motor.
For what I think of as "mountain roads", your areas of concerns are going to be climbing and wheels/tires/and flats.
You want to run a wider than normal bicycle tires on stronger than normal bicycle wheels(at least the rear).
Others will chime in with other options, but if your budget is a "hard" one, I think, if you are willing to do the homework, this is the way to go.
Good luck.
Oh, and one thing about geared motors, no jumping logs and such :lol:

Budget is the problem. A reliable battery with bms and charger for that length ride at that speed tends to cost about $700. But you should be able to do it in the $1000-1500 ballpark with ease. For the speed and distance you want, 25 mph, 48v 15 ah is the size you need. 20 mph max, a 36v 15 ah will work.

I don't usually recommend the RC batteries for commutes. They take a bit of tlc, and charging them at work risks a fire at work, which will get you fired. So that cheaper battery option is not as good for commutes unless you can carry enough to go both ways.

Lots of places to get the motor that would fit you best, a 48v powered, 500w rated gear motor. Better for the mountain ride than the cheaper direct drive kits. But the typical cheap 1000w DD kit on amazon or can still do a little bit of dirt riding fine. 6% grade won't faze even weak 250w kits. You can get those 48v 1000w kits around $300, then a reliable battery for $500-700.

A premium setup like the one the company I work for sells, more like $2000. Most of that cost is battery.

If you really need to make it cheaper, a 36v kit and 36v 10 ah battery will get you to work. But you'll have to ride slower than 20 mph. I assume that like I did with my 15 mile one way commute, you'll much prefer a faster ride, even if you don't use the full speed of it every day. Leave the house 10 min late, nice to have 25mph + that day.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Conversion-/191526384432
10ah 12s rc lipo with bms and charger $300 or less.

dogman dan said:

Budget is the problem. A reliable battery with bms and charger for that length ride at that speed tends to cost about $700. But you should be able to do it in the $1000-1500 ballpark with ease. For the speed and distance you want, 25 mph, 48v 15 ah is the size you need. 20 mph max, a 36v 15 ah will work.

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+1

Lipo is never appropriate for a commuter.

It is possible to build a cheaper ebike, but not a cheap and reliable ebike. Not for the kind of reliability a commuter needs. While there are plenty of very cheap motor kits that will work for your needs, it's the battery that's going to get you. cheap batteries aren't reliable, and many aren't safe.

So ask your self how many days can you be late to work because your bike didn't get you there?

You may be tempted to get a battery smaller than recommended to save money, but that ends up being a false economy. If you drain a battery down to it's minimum voltage once or twice, it's fine. if you do that every time, you'll kill the battery in a very short time, ruining the bulk of your investment. You need to run a battery big enough to handle your needs, or you may end up just wasting money.

Here's an example of a minimum standard of quality battery: EM3ev.com/store/Battery With shipping that would be around $700.

That's just BS. And I think over 15K trouble free miles proves that.

wesnewell said:

That's just BS. And I think over 15K trouble free miles proves that.

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And 5 out of 6 Russian Roulette players would swear it's safe to play. Just because you personally haven't had a problem doesn't mean it's safe, or smart.

I've had a pretty positive experience with the kit I bought off of eBay almost 8 months ago! I haven't even had a flat tire or broken spoke, and the wheel is still true! Wesnewell gave a link to a very similar setup that is ideal, but for a few dollars more you can get PAS, disc brake ( I know you wont need it), and an LCD display. Since you said you won't mind pedalling I think you will enjoy the PAS function! I have the throttle installed on my bike but it is unplugged, and is in pedalic mode only. It takes about 30 sec. to plug the throttle in if I choose to use it! http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Conversion-/291340427977?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d53e22c9


I've only been using Lipo batteries since last year, they were what I replaced the SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries my eZip Trailz bike came with. I've been fortunate to not to have too many problems. One of my 18.5Vs puffed up while I was riding to work one morning due to one of the balance wires breaking. The battery indicator on the LCD display went from full to flashing empty in a matter of seconds, so I shut the system down. When I checked the battery pack I found the puffed battery with the broken wire. I use this charger to charge and balance them:
http://www.amazon.com/HiTec-44167-Plus-4-Port-Multi-Charger/dp/B005MW0WZO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425322563&sr=8-1&keywords=hitec+x4+ac

EDIT: Just to be clear, the eBay kit is installed on my Trek 4300 mtn. bike and not my eZip Trailz. I use 3 18.5V Lipos in series at 4500mAH for my 5 mile commute to work each way. I only need to charge them at work.

mancuz28 said:

Hi All, new to the forums and to ebikes in general. I'm mildly mechanically inclined, but as this is my first go at it, I'd like an all in one kit ....

Thanks for any advice you can give!

Click to expand...

Check out my Top 10 eBike Conversion Kits & Where to Buy thread. Nothing beats doing your own research & price/performance comparison, with a few pointers here on the forum. Look at the affordability options, including the Leaf DD and YescomUSA options, both of which will get you in the $200 range for the kit. Spend most of your budget on battery. One way to keep the cost of a battery low without sacrificing reliability is make it yourself from the cells - there is lots of info on the forum on how to do that.

Pretty much all the kits come from the same place. yescomusa sells everything from toilets to tattoo kits.
http://www.yescomusa.com/Electric_Bicycle_Engine/
xcceries is one of their ebay sellers, but it all comes from yescomusa. and there are several other volume sellers. They all sell pretty much the same thing with very few differences. You can usually get it cheaper ordering it off ebay. Since I bought my first kit 4 years ago, the price has come down considerably, which is surprising, but true. There's just no need to pay more for a kit.

dogman dan said:

If you really need to make it cheaper, a 36v kit and 36v 10 ah battery will get you to work. But you'll have to ride slower than 20 mph. I assume that like I did with my 15 mile one way commute, you'll much prefer a faster ride, even if you don't use the full speed of it every day. Leave the house 10 min late, nice to have 25mph + that day.

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Slower than 20mph? a small 260rpm motor at 36volts will do about 20mph. (Q100H or Bafang XO2). That might work. the 36v 200rpm motors won't get you to 20mph, but the 260rpm ones should. What do you think?

FYI - I do about 24-25mph on a small 36v motor, but I'm pedaling hard.

Thanks for all the information! Some follow up:

-I'm planning to install the kit on a diamondback wildwood
http://host.web-print-design.com/ski/products/bikes/comfort-cruiser/old-bikes/DB_WILD_delux.jpg

I can wiggle the budget a little, but I'm a bit of a commitment phobe, and it does give me some anxiety when it comes to spending this much money on an "unproven" hobby. So honestly, I think I'd rather spend a little less now, then upgrade later if the interest "sticks" even if it winds up costing a bit more in the long run.

So I'm ok with going towards the lower ends of my desired speed and range for now...It sounds like 36V will do even if that's only good for ~20mph. but I didn't think of the implications of discharging a lower Ah battery more frequently, definitely something to consider.

Fortunately, if I have a battery fail mid-commute, I would probably not be fired haha. Then I'd just go back to burning gasoline until I got a replacement. Not ideal, but not the end of the world.

I will check out the "Top 10 Kit list" and see what catches my eye. There is a temptingly cheap full kit at greenbikekit ($550 with shipping), but only 350W, doesn't look like they sell 500W kits.

Here's a 36V 500W rear kit at yescomusa sans battery for around $200:
http://www.yescomusa.com/Brushless_Electric_Bicycle_Engine-_36v_500w_Rear_Wheel_Hub_Motor_Kit.html

I would then have a ~$500 battery budget to go for something like this?
http://www.leafbike.com/products/lithium-battery/36v-li-battery/36v-15ah-rack-lithium-ion-battery-959.html

EDIT: or do I want LiFePO4?
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/501-36v18ah-lifepo4-electric-bicycle-battery-pack-battery.html

Please let me know if I'm way off with any of that. Like I said, I'm pretty flexible (and plan to do significant pedaling myself)...I'm going to start with just a partial 10 mile commute...then if I get the itch, extend to 15 and upgrade if necessary.

Thanks again, I'll be doing plenty more research myself before pulling the trigger, but keep the info coming if you are willing!

Oh, I get it now. By mountain roads, you mean paved mountain roads, duh.
I was thinking dirt and rocks and such.
For paved roads, the DD kit would be ok(I prefer the smaller geared motors).
But you are off base on the Battery.
I just received one of these;
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/683-36v125ah-bottle-09-e-bike-battery-charger-battery.html
It's for a build I'm doing for a friend, so I haven't yet installed and tested it yet.
But it came in perfect condition, fully charged and shipping was less than $100, for a total of around $300.
It mounts to the water bottle bosses on the frame and has lighted capacity gauge and on/off switch, LVC, key lock and a 5V usb charging port.
I don't know what the controller spec.s are on that kit(I don't care much for their lack of real info), but the battery is rated at 20 Ampscontinuous, so it should be enough for a 500W rated system.

Yes, sorry should have clarified! The mountain roads near me are what I would call "well packed dirt and gravel". A little bumpy in places, but definitely not off-roading.

And wow...thanks for the battery recommendation! At that price I can buy a spare for my back pack haha. Just kidding...I think... Any drawbacks to one of those vs. a LiFePO4?

The mountain roads near me are what I would call "well packed dirt and gravel". A little bumpy in places, but definitely not off-roading.

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Hummm, Then I still think I would go with a geared motor, lighter, less unsprung weight and slightly better freewheeling. And, I think it would be worth getting some wider rims like the Alex DM32's, so you can go with some wider tires, like the Maxxis 2.5 Holy Rollers.
It will make the bike much more stable on dirt.

Any drawbacks to one of those vs. a LiFePO4?

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The LiFePO4 might last a little longer, but the Li-on is way lighter and should last 2 to 3 years.
Likely something better will be available in 3 years, anyhow.

The 36V 500W kit is rated for 25kph top speed. That's 15.5mph. A 48V 1000W kit is just a little more, and its top speed is rated at 45kph. That's 27.9mph. I started with a48V 500W kit and ordered a 48V 1000W kit 2 weeks later. Your call.

Nelson37 said:

Don't forget to factor in shipping costs, you will be mightily impressed. Changes the picture significantly.

Describe your soldering, crimping, and wiring skills, and degree of electrical knowledge. Connectors for various components are not at all standardized and sometimes left off completely.

Can you currently make the entire trip on your bicycle? Time and speeds for the hill climb both ways? Get on the simulator, and run a BUNCH of various combinations. How is your current bicycle gearing with regard to higher cruising speeds? Do you want or need to pedal-assist, this will increase range and reduce weight and cost.

As a noob who just clocked his first 1000 miles on his first kit, I'm still debating if I should have gone 48v from the start. The battery is the biggest single expense, and the only feasible upgrade is to buy a new one. Get MORE BATTERY than you think you need, essentially add 20% to max required capacity, maybe more as capacity decreases with age. Pay little to no attention to advertised range numbers.

RC Lipo is worth considering, but for me, I would not like to just park one at somebody else's home or place of business, much less charge it there.

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Excellent advice.

Batteries DO NOT gain more capacity/range with use and age. IMO, higher voltage the better and with a programable controller you can safely run 36-48V motors on 60-72V battery pack voltages. Merely adjust motor speed down to rated RPM spec. Or not, if you're adventurous.

Sage words. "get more battery" Enough for when it's cold and windy and your battery won't take you as far as normal.

That's why I was saying 36v 10 ah would mean riding slower. Of course you can buy motors that are fast on 36v.

I was talking about the total watt hours. 360wh will not take you 15 miles, at 25 mph. Period, end of discussion. 36v 20 ah will. 8)

You will like 48v better on the hills. Optimum battery for you is 48v 13-15 ah.

As for lipo, you don't want to be charging that shit at work. So that means you'd need 30 miles range at 25 mph. That much battery gets expensive, and you are on a budget. Price out 48v 25 ah of Hobby king packs. More than $400 for sure!

You'd be better off with a 48v 15 ah lifepo4 from sunthing perhaps, or a NMC from cali battery, or something like that. Something you can charge pretty safely at work. And at home, go to sleep while it charges.

Definitely doable with the kit Wesenwell suggested, and a budget of more like $1000.

I found this thread because I'm in a situation somewhat similar to OP's.

• Rider weight: 150 lbs.
• Commute: about 4 miles each way, but I start from a hill with a 15% grade for the first 1/4 mile. When coming back I have to step down mid-hill and walk the rest of the way to my door. My most important requirement is to have a relatively effortless ride back home, as opposed to arriving sweaty and out of breath.
  I could charge the bike at work. Also, I need to carry my bike up/downstairs often so I'd like to keep the weight down.
• Bike: Cannondale Quick (700C).
• I don't care much for speed.
• Budget: up to $1000, but I'd prefer to stay under $800.
• I live in a city where bike theft is rampant, so I'd like to be as stealth as possible.

I've done some research but I'm overwhelmed by the choices. Suggestions welcome.

The recommendions here developed into two camps.
I was suggesting a lighter, better climbing geared motor from a Vendor in China with the idea of finishing up with a lighter/better handling bike for dirt roads.
And then there was everyone else.

But, if you have to carry your bike up stairs, you deffinatly don't want a heavy combo of a direct drive motor and a
lifepo4 battery.
I would suggest you start reading about the Xiongda 2-speed motor with internal gearbox.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58490
These smaller motors specialize in steep hills.

motomech said:

I would suggest you start reading about the Xiongda 2-speed motor with internal gearbox.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58490
These smaller motors specialize in steep hills.

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Thanks. Browsed the thread, it's really long. My understanding is that you can order that motor directly from the manufacturer in China and then figure out how to make it work for a specific bike. I don't want to invest that much time into this, I'd prefer something that's not optimal and perhaps more expensive but easier to set up. I checked out these: https://dillengerelectricbikes.com/product-category/electric-bike-conversion-kits/

Again, there are too many choices. It looks like they all add 16.5 lbs to the bike, which is a bit too much. Performance-wise it seems like any of those would do, and I have no idea how hard they would be to set up. I also checked out the Copenhagen Wheel but it seems like it's on back order. Anything else like it on the market right now (meaning, I could order it and have it delivered in a few days)?

If you are in a hurry, contact Illia at Ebike SF. He is a good guy to help you.

The Dillenger kits, from my experience, are extremely easy to set up, and ship from Ontario,CA so transit time and shipping expense should be minimal (ask Sam if the item is in stock). The bad news is that for residents of CA tax is added.

Well, I got the 350 watt green bike kit you mentioned above, and tend to agree with what motomech said.

2.2kg motor (Q100). 2.4kg for the battery using the BMS battery 36v10ah high C battery (or lighter if you build a EM3ev kit).

I go 24mph for 24 miles, with A LOT of pedaling. Is that what you are after? My bike weighs about 30lbs with battery. Kit costs about $550 including shipping. I would think the average person could do 20mph (260rpm version) for 20-24 miles with good pedal input.

Its not a scooter, it’s a bike with e-assist giving me a higher top speed.

Yeah, I think his hill is too steep for a geared mini, like the Cute, or even a MXUS.
Aside from the 2-speed, the only other choice would be a larger geared, like the Bafang BPM, the Mac, Ezee, etc.
I would probably be looking at the BPM CST(201 slow wind), on 48V from BMS Battery.