Impulse purchase can anyone identify?

So. Long story short I road a co-workers bike the other day and I got the bug bad. I just impulse purchased the 26" version of this front tire motor assembly from Ebay for for my new Origin 8 Crawler Fat Tire bike. Can anyone here identify the motor? Any idea what kind of battery pack I need to purchase to drive it? With bike I'm thinking 300 pounds bike and rider mostly on the flats lots of sand. Not sure whats appropriate for an hour long light assist ride. More range is better of course. I probably should have researched a bit more before clicking buy it now but it was the last 26" one!

Here is the relevant text from the auction:

"The conversion kit combines the full E-bike technology: direct drive Brushless hi-torque hub Motor combine with SLA, NiMH or Li-Ion rechargeable batteries to change almost every bicycle into a personal electric bike. Save energy, protect environment and save money with a lot of fun.
Functions
High power brushless front hub motor that allows up to 25 MPH top speed.
Full Completely conversion kit included:
o Brushless Front Hub Motor mounted 20" fat tire rim(rim width is 4"). the Hub Motor power can reach up to 900W.
o Prewired Speed Controller Unit with 26 Amp current limit. This Controller can be powered by any 48V voltage battery pack with a min. 30A discharging drain current.
o Prewired throttle with LED Light and Battery Energy Guage.
o One pair of brake lever switch.
o One pedal assist sensor.

Easy to install within 30 minutes.Installation manual are available online or request by mail. What you see in the photos are what you would receive:
1x Fat tire rim wheel with hub motor
1x Speed controller
1x Throttle
1x Pedal assist sensor
1x brake lever switch

Size: 20" x 20" x 9"

Net Weight: 25.00 lb"

I think I may be in over my head a bit but I genuinely appreciate any quality advice you might have to offer.

Those spokes have almost no bracing angle. I predict that wheel will be a real problem in the long run unless you lace it with spokes to the opposite side of the rim.

This is the actual picture of the 26" rim I purchased. Looks a bit different. Still think I'll have issues?

Yes, you'll still have issues. The problem is that the hub flanges on that motor are very close together, while the right and left spoke holes in the rim are spaced widely apart from each other. That leaves you with a situation where the spokes can apply little to no lateral bracing, simply because they are pulling almost completely parallel to the plane of the wheel. How would you true a wheel like that? How would it resist side loads?

The cure is to replace the spokes with slightly longer ones, and lace them across to the other side of the rim. That way they can have some bracing angle to work with.

ROFLMAO No, you won't have any problem with either of those wheels. It's common practice to radial lace a hub motor into a 20" wheel , and it's also common practice to us a 1X cross pattern in a 26" wheel. There are many hub motors laced like the ones shown, including mine.

Congrats on the 'impulse buy'!

Battery: well, you could mess around with lead or nimh--- nahh lol. lithium is the go-to battery, the easiest of which is a pack like you'd find at bmsbattery, em3ev, ebay hallomotor? (there are alot of options)
Probably something like avgerage 2miles riding per amp hour (ah) of battery on your setup- but watch out for the sand- if it was difficult without a motor . . . .
I'm picturing something like 15-20 ah of 48v lithium as a minimum to deliver full potential of the setup and not harm battery with the 30a draw. anywhere from maybe 600-1000$ with bms and charger. That should easily achieve the hour of riding assisted or possibly electric only.

I can only assume you are curious about all the popular batteries.
If you're cautious about over 'investing' (ie cheap like me lol), somewhat ambitious and don't mind 'playing with fire' -then spend a day or two and read/learn all you can on jekyll/hyde that is lipo. You could run with half as much ah because they are capable of much higher discharge, and while this means less $ and weight, less ah still means less range. So even though you could run nicely on 200$ of battery (plus special chargers, or bms, and always probably always a headache for unexperienced) you would still need approaching 400$ of just battery cells for the same range as the normal lithium, and still have to figure out bms or charging, enclosure etc.

Just my 2cent- I'm an ebike noob too. Look for writeups by the guys with the colored names-
And the wheel should be fine at least for a while- mostly there's less potential for complete garbage on amazon like on ebay lol. Keep an eye on it and remember what chalo said- he's definitely informed and one day you may be trying to remember what he said.

Chalo said:

The problem is that the hub flanges on that motor are very close together, while the right and left spoke holes in the rim are spaced widely apart from each other.

Click to expand...

Actually, if the spoke flange distance is significantly smaller than spoke hole lateral offset, it can work.

I think that the best thing would be to try it. I don't think you'll notice any problems with it. The controller doesn't look very powerful. You'll probably want to upgrade that later. Can you tell us what's written on it?

There's no control panel, so the PAS function won't be a lot of use. I think I'd leave that off and just use the throttle.

There's probably an ignition wire on the controller that needs to go to the battery positive side via a switch. Did you get wiring instructions? If not, post a picture of the connectors here so that we can advise you.

Will post pics and docs as soon as it arrives! Bike arrives here tomorrow but looks like I won't get the motor till Tues. - I'll drop the wheels off at the bike shop to true them. I'm pretty excited about this!

Did nobody notice synergist was looking for battery recommendations? everybody's talking about the wheel and he didn't even ask about that unless I missed something.

Did you find one xsynergist?

26 amps controller small enough to use with a 10 ah battery, but a 15 ah would stress the battery less.

It's not going to be a hot rod with that controller, but plenty of power to float over sandy patches that are not actually bottomless. Should have double the guts of the storm for example, if not more.

If you are of normal weight, I don't expect the wheel to have any more than the usual issues. ( loosens in the first 100 miles) Bit of luck really, whether the cheap spokes they chose are shit, or half decent. If you get really unlucky, the spokes all break, no matter how they were laced. Nothing a quality spoke set won't cure.

RE the motor itself, based on the mid power controller they chose, I will guess it's a muxus/9 continent/ golden type design. That is to say, magnets about 28mm wide, motor easily able to handle 1500-2000w, but generally rated 500w. Run it on 48v,and it will pull about 1300w max.

Give us a link where you got it?

@nutspecial - Battery still up in the Air I'm wide open to ideas on this one.

@dogman dan - I'll keep an eye on the spokes. I found this kit on ebay by searching for "Fat TIre Bike Motor" from some seller named Victor Studio. Looks like another seller named DevicesPro is selling the same kit for the same price now.

Bought the bike on ebay as well if anyone is interested. I'll start a build thread once the bike gets here and I can get some pics.

wesnewell said:

ROFLMAO No, you won't have any problem with either of those wheels. It's common practice to radial lace a hub motor into a 20" wheel , and it's also common practice to us a 1X cross pattern in a 26" wheel. There are many hub motors laced like the ones shown, including mine.

Click to expand...

I don't think that is the "angle" that Chalo was talking about. what he was saying is the there is no angle on the right side hub flange to the right side spoke holes on the rim and also on the left. Without that angle there is no side to side to side rigidity/support. With the wheel standing strait up and down, the spokes are vertical as well so there is no way to true it side to side.

What he suggested was to run the right side spokes to the left side spoke holes to allow for lateral support and to allow for truing. He was not referring to the "cross pattern" of the spokes.

He is right.

I can't see it from that picture and question how they are selling them on amazon if they're so laced so deficiently. Plus that's not the actual wheel anyway- he'll post pics when it arrives.

xsynergist: As far as batteries i recommended halomotor on ebay to someone before as this was where I was gonna by before i got lipo. http://stores.ebay.com/hallomotor/category4410551016-/_i.html?_fsub=4410551016&_sid=812894526&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
Due some due-diligence against bmsbattery or em3ev for similar sizes-remember to add shipping with them.

I heard others mention sunthing and tony284 or some names like that too. But I'm a little judgemental without further info, and would rather buy from at least a storefront on there.

Maybe someone with actual non-lipo experience can weigh in.

I will definitely take the wheel into the bike shop here that deals with fat tire bikes to check it out. Better safe than sorry.

Thank you for the battery recommendations. The thought of dropping another 1000.00 on a battery any time soon is painful. Are there options for a cheaper DIY test battery so I can see what performance/duration I really need before committing to a specific setup? I've been reading and watching videos about the options but my brain is in overload at the moment. Too much too fast.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67963&start=25

Here's alot of recent info that should help for the battery if you haven't seen it.

**updates**

Bike and Motor kit is firmly in hand.

The rim with the motor seems very heavy duty. In my hands it feels more like a motorcycle rim than a bicycle rim. The spokes are much thicker than on my other rims. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it develops issues but on first examination it seems very strong.

@d8veh and dogman dan - the whole kit is very lacking in documentation of any kind. The wiring coming out of the controller looks like spaghetti. There is a total of 13 connectors and only about half of them seem to match the rest of the kit. This is going to be interesting...

There is a small sticker on the controller that says the following:
"Brushless DC Motor Controller
Model KT48ZWS-ZC10 Max. Current 26+/-1A
Input Voltage DC 48V Speed set 1-4.2v
Min Votage DC41+/-0.5v Brake Input:Low Level" Yes its spelled Votage on the sticker...

I'll start another build thread once I get pics of everything.

It's a Kunteng controller, so the connectors should be fairly standard. If you post a clear photo showing the connectors spread out, we can probably identify them for you. There may well be an ignition wire, which provides the power for the controller to operate.

Here you go:
Controller has no obvious on/off switch.

In addition it appears my rim with motor has an area for the cassette to go making me think it is a Rear wheel motor even though the auction said Front wheel specifically. I have not tried to fit it waiting for feedback from the seller. I may see if there is a reasonable way to secure it this evening. I'll post a pick later when I have some time.

Try this. The image enlarges easily with cntrl/mousewheel. Probably the experts can help too.

otherDoc

Fronts are for 100mm, and rears are for 135mm dropouts. You can measure it to see.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=92088474CCB8CD05!1751&app=WordPdf&authkey=!AL3b-yf61LgX834

Alot of my em3 controller pinout is prob applicable.

Shouldn't the kit have matched plugs for ebrakes, throttle, motor phase and hall, etc?

edit- otherdoc's 'don't know' may be the on/off for controller. mine is red/red

The ignition wire is on the throttle connector and is switched on by the switch on the throttle. That's important if you want to use a different throttle later.

The connector next to the throttle one is the pedal sensor.

The white wires are probably speed limiting, orthey might be self-learning. Whatever they are are, leave them disconnected.

I'm not sure about the yellow and white. It could be lights or something like that.

I have clarified the wheel does fit the front forks. I think because it is a fat tire bike the front dropouts are the same width as the rear dropouts on a normal tire size bike? I assume they use the same spindle/motor combo for regular rears and use them on the front. I may be confused on this point but it would explain the space for a cassette on hub. I did not measure yet but can do so if anyone is curious. I did clarify with the vendor and he stated it was definitely a front motor so moving on.

I have replaced the brake handles with the ones provided in the kit. Ran into a bit of an issue where the throttle for the motor and the control for the Nuvinici hub are both right grip specific. I tried a couple of arrangements and for the short term will put both on the same side. Long term I think I will need to replace the throttle with a left hand throttle. Preferably a thumb throttle
of some kind but Ill worry about that after I get the bike up and running.

I purchased two torque arms but it may be tricky to get the side on with the disk brake. I'll dig into that deeper tomorrow.

Controller:
Ok it looks like matching color to color and connector to connector and with the awesome help from you guysI have matched up most of the wiring.

As noted in the pic from docnjoc
-The thick red and white are power from the batt
-The three thick color coded wires and the 6 pin connector are the phase and hall wires going to the motor.
-Two of them match up with the brake cut offs
-The four wire flat connector connects to the throttle which has a red button on it and a three light batt level indicator.
-One of them matches the "Pedal assist sensor" which I have no idea how to hook up I have not searched the forum yet on this one.
- Leaving the yellow and white which is ???

Mounting the controller looks like its going to be somewhat awkward I think I'll just zip tie it somewhere for testing then figurer out a cleaner looking solution once I know everything works as expected.

Again thanks for all who are jumping in to help out. This forum has some awesome folk!

I'll get some pics up tomorrow.

If you have only four wires to the throttle connector and it has LEDs that work and a switch, there can't be an ignition wire there. You would need five wires for that. So, what does the switch do? I have seen them wired internally to switch off just the throttle, leaving the controller switched on.

When you connect everything together to test it, if it doesn't work, check that there's 5v between the red and black throttle wires. If there isn't, the controller is switched off, so you'd need to look at the yellow and white wires..