Independent power sources?

Is there a, currently, off the shelf controller which uses dual power sources?
Here is purpose:
While some claim "homemade battery pack", here is how supercaps can be fabricated: [youtube]https://youtu.be/iD2rVGjG2HQ[/youtube]
[youtube]https://youtu.be/nRM0x-AqrTk[/youtube]
Ladder logic, antiquated?
So how practical would it be to have two controllers. One regen system on the front, as 75-100% of braking power is in the front, that charges a supercap bank. And a second system that would use both a battery AND the supercap bank in series, to power the rear.
Of course there should be switch/relay to use only the battery when the supercaps are discharged.
Is there a charger design that would work well to charge supercaps on the go? Most 110v outlets will be limited to 10-20amps. How practical would it be to plug into a "public" outlet to charge the supercap bank?

While some of these are just "what if", it takes a comprehension of WHY it won't work to advance the tech. If you want to belittle this mental exercise, as is so often the case in forums, fine just give an explanation as WHY it's not practical. The objective is to learn.

mat h physics said:

Is there a, currently, off the shelf controller which uses duel power sources?

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For ebikes, only in that you can use as many power sources as you want...in parallel. They either all have to be the same voltage (and preferably chemistry) or you have to use diodes to feed them, so that one doesn't overcharge the other if one is higher voltage than the other at full charge.

Any controller that could actually use dual (not duel) power sources would really just have built-in diodes to prevent each power source from seeing the other(s). They might use fancy ways of separating them, or simple ones, but that's essentially what it would do.

Ladder logic, antiquated?

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I cna't see the vids so I have no idea what you're trying to show there; you'll have to describe it in text or attach pictures.

So how practical would it be to have two controllers. One regen system on the front, as 75-100% of braking power is in the front, that charges a supercap bank. And a second system that would use both a battery AND the supercap bank in series, to power the rear.
Of course there should be switch/relay to use only the battery when the supercaps are discharged.

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I dunno why you'd wanna waste a whole motor on only regen, but you can do what you're talking about easy enough--it's already been done or at least discussed before.

You'd be better off just using the thing as a 2WD system like I do on CrazyBike2 (no supercaps, just a battery that can charge fine from the regen it gets, so they're not needed).




Is there a charger design that would work well to charge supercaps on the go? Most 110v outlets will be limited to 10-20amps. How practical would it be to plug into a "public" outlet to charge the supercap bank?
Practical? that depends on your definition of practical. Why do you wanna carry around something that gives you a few seconds of motor power (maybe a few minutes at best) for the size you could fit on a bike, vs carrying the same physical volume of battery that could probably give you hours? Especially since you can never use most of the energy you put into the caps, unlike that in batteries. (unless you build some high-current version of the "joule thief" style electronics to totally drain the cap by converting it's too-low voltage back up to that needed for your controller).

You may wanna read the many previous discussions of caps, supercaps, ultracaps, etc., to see about "practicality".

While some of these are just "what if", it takes a comprehension of WHY it won't work to advance the tech. If you want to belittle this mental exercise, as is so often the case in forums, fine just give an explanation as WHY it's not practical. The objective is to learn.

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FWIW if you want the detailed explanations, it's in the many previous discussions, if the part above isnt' enough.

The main thing about advancing cap tech is that it isn't necessary to use it at all to achieve fast charging for regen. Capture of that energy is easy with existing battery tech. Newer tech will only get better at it. Why add extra complication, volume, weight, failure points?


FWIW, one reason you may experience what you think of as belittling is becuase most things (like caps) have already been discussed to death...but it takes reading the past discussions to discover this. Most people that have been on the same forum for long enough to have seen previous discussions act the way they do because they're tired of saying the same things over and over again, as the newer members asking them don't want to read the old discussions and want their own, insisting that what they are talking about is different (when it isn't, at it's basics), and refuse to go look at the stuff, or say its' too hard to find (when it isn't, it just takes time). Then the members who *have* read them (usually wrote them!) may not be very nice about expressing their lack of desire to spoon feed every new member who thinks they have a "new" idea (that isn't).

If you don't like my reply I'll be happy to remove it and let someone else help.

Got a PM on this, his concern was C rating SC vs bat.
As for the videos, they are demos of how to fabricate supercaps via basic chemistry and layering techniques. His numbers appear to be close to what commercial SC produce. Yet by fabricating in shop, the option to stuff in frame tubes or shape a fairing cowlings.
I don't consider parallel power sources to be independent.
Ladder logic would be required to lock in/out power sources. OR, would it be safe to connect the opposing pole to the regen controller/SC. Of course a diode would be a solution, come to think of it.
I have reviewed some old post, spent many hours reading what comes up in search.
One concern is, will a DD produce enough torque to stop 350# quickly?
Most of this is outside the box, to see what will practically fit inside the box.
Though what is avb is not true AC, one trick in large plants is to run AC sync motors free wheel (usually over powered fans), to bring up the AC power factor in house. It sounds counter intuitive, and these are PM, not AC sync.
The primary concern in a fast charge, is keeping things cool. Maybe water evaporation to reduce fast charger size. Of course that is wasted energy.
It's an exercise in what can be, though many ppl on ES seem to think it a dick swinging contest. I won't mention names.
Would bat C rating be a restricting factor, or would the increased voltage, decrease amps enough to reduce such concerns.
How much reduction in eff would be expected, "on paper", if the front DD dragged (regen) to provide the series(w/batt) voltage to the rear GH?
Keep in mind, I have an AAS in automation robotics. So I do comprehend where power will be lost due to rectifying/inverting. Would like to comprehend better on six phase and true AC sync.

mat h physics said:

I don't consider parallel power sources to be independent.

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To have a second power source over batteries, you can use battery float voltage as a mechanism to allow both to work - that's what I do with my generator systems.

If the batteries under no load are, say 48v, but under load they are 46v, then you design a circuit that attempts to maintain voltage when it dips below 47v. Attach this to your supercap system and it will use the energy in the supercaps with a booster to ensure that it can deplete the caps completely, down to around 5v ( This is a major problem with caps ) - Then when you brake, you charge the caps. When you apply power, the caps will provide most of the power to the motor, taking the load off the batteries, and the boost circuit will drain them completely.

This seems to achieve what I think you're trying to do, with automatic switching between the two, and would deload the batteries under acceleration and extend their life. The sources are not parallel, but rather staged, so that it will use the caps as a power cache.

Good luck with the supercaps - I think the technology might be a little bit new to gain effective operation, but please post back here if you get good results.

Regards
David.