electric Velomobile max speed record?

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mvly   10 kW

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electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by mvly » May 04 2015 10:25pm

I am rethinking a touring trip with a velomobile to gain more aero dynamic advantage. Has anyone electrify a velomobile? What are the things to watch out for? What is the max speed you can obtain? Mid-drive vs hub drive. Pedal assist or just pure electric? Bigger battery or smaller and pedal assist to achieve the distance you want?

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Modbikemax   1 kW

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Modbikemax » May 05 2015 6:27am

You can buy a lot of batteries for the price of a velomobile fairing. I started looking at a fairing before I started using a motor but it's an interesting project. I expect a gearing option would be the best because of the extra weight of the fairing so a mid drive would seem the best choice. It should go a long way on the smell of an electron :lol:

Here is one I have considered
http://www.trisled.com.au

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by mvly » May 05 2015 9:59am

The trisled is a good and cheap start but it is not full suspension. I was considering the quest and using the ecospeed mount mid-drive. But those two combo will set me back more 15K USD no counting the extra stuff like CA controller battery etc.

Man making a really efficient transportation can get costly!

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by docnjoj » May 05 2015 1:15pm

Perhaps check out the Steintrikes website. They sell 2 shells for their full suspension trikes and the total would be around 8000 USD. Still a lot of money but a much better ride than that Trisled. If I lived in a colder climate I would seriously consider one. Standard hub or mid-drive power would cost more, but Ecospeed is really big bucks.
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E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by John in CR » May 05 2015 2:54pm

I've been pondering this for a while, and have all but decided to go with a more upright position than bicycle recumbents, probably similar to Craig Vetter's work on streamlining a motorcycle. Since I've broken 100mph without a fairing, then 110-120mph should be easily achievable simply by changing to a larger wheel on HubMonster and adding a fairing. The reason I believe upright but feet forward is the way to go is for greater control. On my fastest bikes any time I encountered any instability or wobble it was instantly cured by popping myself more upright, which also acts as a significant wind brake. No doubt a low streamliner would be a thrill so close to the ground at those speeds, but with such a low CG things happen too quickly.

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Modbikemax   1 kW

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Modbikemax » May 05 2015 6:48pm

Going fast on a bicycle ebike or velo mobile on public roads is very dangerous.
I expect a velomobile in a touring application would offer longer distances and a higher level of comfort from the elements rather than just going stupid fast. For a touring application the plastic trisled seems a robust and practical velomobile. It will resist getting knocked around through regular use. See their video playing ice soccer with them. Fat tyres might absorb some of the bumps.

On the other hand if you want to go stupid fast I'd be doing that off public roads without joe public running you down in his motor home. :shock:

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Dauntless » May 05 2015 10:18pm

Without electric power they've cracked 70mph.
Overzealous vehicle Australian 12-hour record, Jeff Nielsen, 490.25km, 2008Australian eight-man 24-hour record, 1181km, 2008 (current)World low altitude trike hour record, Jeff Nielsen, 61.81km, 2009 (current)Australian low-altitude land speed record, Jeff Nielsen, 82.66 km/h, 2009 (current)

A lil Overzealous vehicleAustralian 12-hour record, Jeff Nielsen, 2010 (current) Australian 6-hour record, Jeff Nielsen, 2010 (current)World solo 24-hour record, Jeff Nielsen, 1109km, 2010 (current) World 1000km record, Jeff Nielsen, 21 hours and 21 minutes, 2010 (current)
Now, how fast do you really think you'd want to go with such an unstable platform?

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/10/ ... biles.html
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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Marc S. » May 07 2015 2:46pm

Dauntless wrote: Now, how fast do you really think you'd want to go with such an unstable platform?

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/10/ ... biles.html
Thats a Milan velomobile without motor...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CmByXl_rHw

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Marc S. » May 07 2015 3:24pm

mvly wrote:I am rethinking a touring trip with a velomobile to gain more aero dynamic advantage. Has anyone electrify a velomobile? What are the things to watch out for? What is the max speed you can obtain? Mid-drive vs hub drive. Pedal assist or just pure electric? Bigger battery or smaller and pedal assist to achieve the distance you want?
You might want to ask your questions in a velomobile forum. ;)
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageb ... y.php?f=15

There are some online simulators to get an idea about how much speed you can get and how much battery you need.
About 10Wh/km (16Wh/mile) at 70km/h (43mph) on the flat is probably a reasonable figure.
http://www.hembrow.eu/personal/kreuzotter/espeed.htm (the Quest from velomobiel.nl is one of the faster velomobiles)
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

Some velomobile models have a one sided rear swing arm (Quest, Strada, Mango, Go-One K, DF to name a few) that can't fit hub motors. Mid-drive only.
If you like a hub motor, they are possible with the Milan, WAW, Leiba X-Stream, Go-One 3 or Alleweder A4, A6, A9 for instance.

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by docnjoj » May 14 2015 6:42pm

Pedal power alone.

http://gn15.info/rac.jpg:

82.98 mph is a bit above Sam Cunningham.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Alan B » May 14 2015 6:48pm

I was reading about some recent wind tunnel testing, and they found that most bicycle fairings increased wind resistance. It takes a small cross sectional area and major tail flow shaping to really do much, Craig Vetter's types of setups are about the minimum one would want to go for.

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by mvly » May 14 2015 9:47pm

Thanks for the links. Really the only reason is not how fastbut how long and far. With maybe a reduction in air drag, you can go for longer and use less battery this is better fit for touring. But yes i wonder ehat the max record is for electric. There is a record for electric car, and it has all the areo shape.

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Marc S. » May 18 2015 3:09am

I found some old notes on the Drop Limits website http://www.droplimits.de about failed 1000km attempt(s ?) of Wulf Kranels in his eMilan in 2010/2011:

http://www.droplimits.de/index.php/news ... milan.html
"Das gesetzte Ziel von 1000km mit einer Akkuladung hat Wulff nicht erreicht. er ist in 10:26:21,055h mit einem Schnitt von 72,593km/h gut 754km mit einem Akkusatz von 36kg weit gekommen. Er hat nicht nur den Akku für sich arbeiten lassen sondern auch getretten."
(10h26min, distance 754km, average 72,593km/h)

http://www.droplimits.de/index.php/news ... milan.html
Top speed: 129.929km/h

http://www.droplimits.de/index.php/fahr ... aneis.html
"Ich habe nach 10.5 h schon aufgehört, weil es mir physisch einfach schlecht ging, weil ich nämlich schon nach 3 h Magenschmerzen hatte, die vor allem dann immer wiederkamen, wenn ich etwas trank - was aber leider notwendig ist. Wenn man dann aber wenig trinkt (und nichts ißt, weil alle Kalorien in der Flüssigkeit sind), geht es einem irgendwann schlecht und schlechter und man bekommt irgendwann immer mehr Schüttelfrost trotz körperlicher Beanspruchung und wenn dann die ohnehin spärliche Sicht im Regen gegen Abend immer noch spärlicher wird und man nur alle paar Minuten Sabrina überholt und man ständig nur noch Visier wischt, dann geht es irgendwann nicht mehr. Und nachdem ich mir nach 6 h schon nur die 800 km als Ziel gesetzt hatte, waren es dann am Ende nur die 750 km und es war höchste Zeit, die Kiste zu verlassen. Zum Thema treten: ich muß treten, wenn der Motor unterstützt, so ist die Technik halt konzipiert - nur Motor geht nicht, weder technisch, noch energetisch, noch wäre das in meinem Sinne.
Dem Akku ging es gut - Leerlaufspannung 34.5 V bei 10S für den Kenner - bedeuten noch mindestens 150-200 km mehr und das, obwohl ca. 25 % mehr Energie benötigt wurde wegen der äußeren Verhältnisse und ich die letzten 3-4 h eigentlich zu schnell fuhr (80-90 km/h), weil ich nach 6 h halt schon fühlte, daß es mir gesundheitlich nicht so gut geht, um 13-14 h zu fahren, und ich das Ziel auf 800 km heruntergesetzt hatte, dann aber bei den höheren Geschwindigkeiten natürlich viel mehr elektrische Energie gebraucht wird, als bei langsamerer und konstanter Fahrt.
Bei "Normalverlauf" sind die 1000 km absolut kein Problem."

There is a short video as well (the last one):
http://www.droplimits.de/index.php/dekr ... 10.de.html

Not much info about the battery (10s, 36kg) or motor, though.

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Dauntless » May 18 2015 10:01pm

Marc S. wrote:Not much info about the battery (10s, 36kg) or motor, though.
Aber wie wollen Sie wissen? Menschen, die Deutsch vielleicht lesen eine Menge gelernt haben.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: electric Velomobile max speed record?

Post by Marc S. » May 19 2015 5:47am

Dauntless wrote:
Marc S. wrote:Not much info about the battery (10s, 36kg) or motor, though.
Aber wie wollen Sie wissen? Menschen, die Deutsch vielleicht lesen eine Menge gelernt haben.
Sorry, I don't speak googletranslate. ;)
(Googles English -> German translation is really awefull and often barely, sometimes simply not understandable for a native German speaker. German -> English is quite good though)

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