Longest commute

So I'd like to get a feel for what the longest practicable commute is for an e-bike. I'm potentially in a year's time going to have a monster 73km (one way) commute - with peak hour traffic problems. I will probably be catching the train, but would like to look at other options. There's a flat separated cycleway the entire distance. I weigh 61kgs, but there may be headwinds some mornings. I will be pedalling as I'm a cyclist already but it's just beyond a practical distance for me to ride.

I'm thinking about getting a 250 cc motorbike, but I thought I should investigate if an e-bike would even be a possible option, mainly because I'd be happier parking it in the secure bike parking at work than parking my motorbike out in the open! There are also cost savings with the ebike perhaps, as I don't currently hold a motorbike license. I'd be looking at spending about $3,000AUD on a motorbike or ebike.

Well you've come to the right place jetska.

Are you able to charge at work? That will make the biggest difference, as 73km isn't beyond possibility at all, however 2 x 73km = 146km is starting to get a bit difficult within a traditional 'bicycle' package.

I can manage about 75km if taking it a bit slower on my Recumbent:

I could also make 146km, if I added the remainder of my battery pack to the mix for a total of 1.2KWh, but I don't bother as I never need to go that far.

If you don't want to haul a massive battery and weight around, and still have decent speed, you should seriously consider a recumbent for that kind of distance as the benefits of the decreased drag are massive.

Cheers

Cowardlyduck is right about the drag, it will be very important at speed and will greatly impact battery usage. You should check out fairings or recumbents. Either way, there are many battery vendors (lunacycles) that are able to build a suitable battery for your needs. As for the motor, almost any kit will do the job as long as you don't speed too much to overheat the components.
You should try to estimate the power needed and battery for your needs with the simulator http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

For 73km commute... you surely want to go through highway somehow? Which mean needing a motorcycle license.

I can't see you doing low speed on small road.

You need to be cruising at least at 70km/h, so that commuting time can be reasonable

there's a separated path the whole way.... I have ridden it on my road bike many times but it's not viable to go both ways via leg power only

those two wheeled recumbents - how steep is the learning curve riding one of them over a normal bike? is it easy to stop and manouver through narrow spaces?

With an electrical motor, learning how to ride a two wheel bent is easy. I have two bents and do a 35km one way commute in about an hour. I have a fairing and tail box on them. This makes the ride much easier. Wind is the biggest problem I face as the ride is mostly flat.

Good luck.

+1
Recumbent are easy to learn if you've already been riding normal bikes and have a good sense of balance already.

The biggest issue with mine is the small wheels and no suspension...the ride can be a little jarring at times, but I've gotten used to it now and compensate with large tires at lower pressure.

Cheers

Without legal restrictions it would be easy to make the commute one way in an hour. With them, near impossible imo. You'll need 30ah of 66.6V rc lipo or equivalent to be safe going at 74 kph on a full recumbent or tadpole. That's with a 26" 1000W DD hub motor and non stop, no wind. Get a strong head wind and you'd have to slow down a lot to make it, or almost double the battery ah. At 74km, I think that's about double the practical commute distance with a legal ebike in AU.

I don't think he's contemplating going 70kph+ on a bike path. If he is, it would irresponsible and stupid.

I ride bike paths also, and my cruising speed is 40kph with boost (120% throttle) mode at 50kph. That's plenty fast enough for a bike path IMO and still allows decent distance to be achieved on a smaller battery.

Cheers

Gotta say, as someone who generally disapproves of recumbents, that's a job for a recumbent.

Sturdy long wheelbase 'bent with 20 front and 26" rear wheels, big mass of lithium battery behind the seat, perspex windscreen. Use a motor and voltage that can cruise at 50 kph, top speed of 60ish. Faster only if you need to get there faster.

To make your budget, you'll have to get the 'bent secondhand.

Since you are limited to 250w in AU, and likely would eventually come to the notice of the nanny state if you rode that commute fast every day, this is where,,,,

I say get the motorcycle. Or, look into bikes that can ride on the train.

It's not that the distance can't be done, it's more like do you want to spend 3-4 hours a day riding it. Or risk the cops noticing a "bike" that goes 60kph. But if it's more like 20 k one way including the train, that can be doable if the bike is not left at a train station asking to be stole.

Recumbent. Recumbent. Recumbent. There. Have we said the R Word enough?

And for load-carrying? See trikes. I just saw this from the UK. Super fast recharging via standard Bosch power tool 36V 9Ah lithium battery packs. Basically plug/snap in/swap for a freshie and add (more) play.

And fairings. See "velomobile" to take it "to the max".

Basically it's stops and goes that suck power. Add no appreciable hills and you are golden. (And re stops? See "regeneration" for saving wear on brakes.)

dogman dan said:

Since you are limited to 250w in AU, and likely would eventually come to the notice of the nanny state if you rode that commute fast every day, this is where,,,,

Click to expand...

:lol:

dogman dan said:

It's not that the distance can't be done, it's more like do you want to spend 3-4 hours a day riding it. Or risk the cops noticing a "bike" that goes 60kph. But if it's more like 20 k one way including the train, that can be doable if the bike is not left at a train station asking to be stole.

Click to expand...

This.

I am currently commuting ~40km either way every day (80km per day) @ 25 - 32.5km/h. Even at 32 km/h, 73/32 = 2.28 hrs each way = 4.5 hours of commuting a day + 7.5 hours of work= 12 day every day..... you will be a zombie doing this, seriously increasing your chance of having an accident.

Don't think I could stomach getting up early enough to travel any further at that speed, can't really go faster without drawing attention to myself.

Your saying there's traffic issues - this will slow you down regardless of whether you are on a motorbike or an ebike. But with your budget, the distance you need to travel - if I had to choose between the two options you have posed in the short run, I would be buying a motorbike.

Can always build up an ebike afterwards as an exit plan... if your riding a motorbike continuously it's a question of when you will have an accident and how bad, not if. I did and would buy a small, efficient cheap second hand car if I would not be able to shift closer/find an alternative.

It shouldn't be too hard to do this on a recumbent. The problem is only the time. At 20kph, the trip is going to take you a several hours each way, but isn't going to piss off everyone else on the trail. If you blow past people at 30kph on a bike trail, you can expect to have someone call the police. If you try to fly down a bike trail at 70kph, expect to receive a baseball bat to the face as you fly by some angry father who's looking out for the welfare of his kids/wife/dog. This means you can either ride slow, or ride fast but take the streets. Recumbent aren't so great in traffic. In many cases, you're down below the view of the cars next to you. A conventional bicycle will partially solve this, but will also significantly increase the size battery you need due to it's much higher wind resistance.

There is also the reliability factor. Ebikes at pedal bike speeds are already putting more stress on a bike, and causing a higher maintenance cycle. Increase the speed, and you increase the needed maintenance and increase the rate of failures. Bicycles were never designed for 4000kw at 70kph, so you're going to go through brakes, tires, chains, etc at a much higher rate.

To solve those problems, many build the bike using a combination of DH and light motorcycle parts. Many people here run 16" moped or 19" motorcycle tires on their bikes to solve the tire issues, and using full DH components on purpose built frames. What they end up with is essentially a small electric motorcycle with pedals. (and FUN!) Those work great, but the build cost ranges from $6k to $10K.

I think with your budget and distance, the right answer is going to be a 250cc motorcycle.

There's no way I would ride a recumbent in traffic here. It's a death wish, but each to their own. If your travelling earlier enough not to be doing silly speed - everyone else on the road at that time is also zombieing on their way to work... your at the same height as the cars and below much of the front of a truck....

I wouldn't want to be on the bike for more than 1 - 1.5 hrs per day commuting. It's easy to think "could I do this tomorrow" but the real question is "can I do this 5 days a week, four weeks in a row?" The cumulative damage over time kill your backside....

Another vote for motorcycle.

Are you seriously considering taking a bike trail where your max reasonable speed is around 30kph, thus making your commute time about 5 hours round trip per day?

Legal issues aside, if you build an ebike that will go fast enough to reduce the commute to a reasonable timeframe you are going to have to take higher speed roads and have something that resembles an electric motorcycle in both form and usage which is beyond your budget especially for a first build. You will no doubt have some reliability issues until you shake all the issues out through trial and error.

Get something like this:
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=272078688572&category=47349&pm=1&ds=0&t=1450985520208

A bit more expensive initially, but you'll quickly save over a motorcycle as you don't have:
- to pay fuel. Which is likely be high regarding your distance
- chain, sprocket wear, oil and other regular maintenance you'll have due again... to long distance.
- minimual brake wear with regen.

If you are going to spend two hours each way every day then a recumbent is the bike to do it on. A BikeE gets you up just about the same height as a driver in a crossover SUV and in my experience most drivers will give a recumbent a lot more room on the road than they will a road or mountain bike and particularly if you are moving at more than usual bicycle speeds. The difference in comfort is the real key though, four hours on a road bike every day is a physical ordeal, four hours on an E-bent is more like sitting in a car or an office chair, not necessarily a lot of fun but not all that stressful physically.

I vote for the motorcycle as a more practical choice when time is considered, be aware that a large percentage of motorcycle accidents occur in the first 90 days of ridership, there's quite a lot to learn even for an experience bicyclist.

Vespa. may as well do it in style.

tomjasz said:

Vespa. may as well do it in style.

Click to expand...

LOL

You know, it might be a lot cheaper in terms of time commitment and opportunity costs just to move closer to where you work, or work closer to where you live.

A technical solution to your commute won't buy you back the thousand hours a year this is going to cost you.

My longest ride using one of my two battery packs was ( I am in the U.S. so will convert to Km's for you )
51km's using up 8.5 amps of a 11 amp hour / 48 volt battery pack.

It took 3 hours to get to the 51 km distance, not including stops for snack/restroom break , rest stops, etc. so really 3.5 + hours.
Traveling around average speed of 17-19 Kph .

I was very sore and tired at that point, and only kept riding ( by switching to my second battery pack ) because it was already dark, and was very hungry .
Sore and tired for several days after that.

To do what you want to do you would have to ride 4 hours or more ... each way ! How would your body feel riding 7-9 hours 5 days a week ?

or
Increase your speed, which uses much more wattage from a battery pack , so would then have to have a 700 watt hour battery pack for 18 Kph speed, or bigger battery pack
for faster speed ! ( you do not want to discharge over 80% of your battery capacity ) I usually only discharge 5 amps to 7 amps max on my battery pack, this was my highest
total discharge on that pack ever.

There is also someone else " Down Under " , in almost the same situation as you , he wants to travel 73 or so Km's to see relatives, He has a thread somewhere here on E.S.
titled something like are batteries better than gas, anyway he lives in Newcastle N.S.W.

You both would be better off, building a motorcycle version of a velomobile, using the little 250 cc Mc's or a scooter .

The same concept as a velomobile, just using motorcycle parts, scooter / parts. years ago there was a yahoo chat group called something like " cabin scooters "

That had info on people doing something similar.

jetska said:

So I'd like to get a feel for what the longest practicable commute is for an e-bike. I'm potentially in a year's time going to have a monster 73km (one way) commute - with peak hour traffic problems. I will probably be catching the train, but would like to look at other options. There's a flat separated cycleway the entire distance. I weigh 61kgs, but there may be headwinds some mornings. I will be pedalling as I'm a cyclist already but it's just beyond a practical distance for me to ride.

I'm thinking about getting a 250 cc motorbike, but I thought I should investigate if an e-bike would even be a possible option, mainly because I'd be happier parking it in the secure bike parking at work than parking my motorbike out in the open! There are also cost savings with the ebike perhaps, as I don't currently hold a motorbike license. I'd be looking at spending about $3,000AUD on a motorbike or ebike.

Click to expand...

IMO, the longest commute distance that is really practical to do by bike, at USA bike speeds of 20-30 mph, is 20 miles one way. I did the 15 mile ( 30 miles a day) commute for 5 years, but only about 3 days a week. The other two I needed to bring construction materials to the workplace, so not easy to carry a half ton of gravel or cement bags by bike. Sometimes I biked to work 4 days, to where I had left a truck for the week.

My commute took from 45 min to an hour, depending on the speed. I rode slower in winter to stay warmer. And, my work was typically a 6 hour day. So adding two hours to commute was not such a huge burden.

So converting to km, about 30k one way can be practical, especially if it means not having to own a second vehicle, or just leaving one parked enough to reap large savings. But longer than that, it's really going to take motorcycle speeds, which simply are not legal in AU, EU, or USA, unless it is a titled, registered motorcycle or scooter.

For longer trips on a day off, there is no real limit to the distance an electric bike can go. My personal best is 80 miles, limited only by the size battery I could afford. I know guys who have done lots of 150 mile days, such as Troy Rank(grinds).

I am building a streamlined recumbent ebike and will use it occasionally for my 60km each way country road commute based on the high wheel 26" Performer.
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I will ride it a couple times per week to prove the technology and to get more exercise. Not really for practical reasons. I wouldn't want to put more than 3 hours per day into my round trip commute. My commute is all on country roads so a 60 kmh top cruising speed won't be much of a legal problem. But it takes a big battery. 1.6 kWh. From what I have read, there is no way you could ride this fast on a bike path in the AU.
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Right now I use a CBR250R with custom aero trunk on the super-highway at 105 kmh with a lifetime of 40km/ L.
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I also ride the back country roads on a Honda PCX150 with a lifetime of 42km/ L.
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A Honda PCX is an amazing commuter motorbike if you can get by with a 105 kmh top speed. Especially if it is legal to lane filter through traffic at stop lights where you are. The CVT transmission is so easy to ride through traffic and very fast off the line. The enclosed belt drive requires no maintenance and lasts for 25,000km. It takes .7 L of regular oil and doesn't have a filter. It has a very comfortable foot forward position and good weather protection once you add a larger wind screen.

This one is better:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Model-60-E-Rider-Electric-Moped-Scooter-In-Stock-72V-60MPH-/272078688572?hash=item3f5927513c:g:nBwAAOSw9N1V0Xv2

100km/h and 2 years warranties. All electric!