worlds best mainstream unheard of factory ebike? ~$1500US

C

cycleops612

10 kW
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May 31, 2015
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585
Location
Sydney Australia, Me: 70kg/154lb. 350w, 22kg ex ba
after 3 years of owning one, i am convinced its a clear winner and inexpensive, but gets almost zero attention that i can find.


this is the company

http://suzhoulongyue.en.made-in-china.com/product-group/nbGxNfsDsRkL/Mountain-Electric-bicycle-catalog-1.html

i have ~:



http://suzhoulongyue.en.made-in-china.com/product/cBdxLsohwkVC/China-Mountain-Electric-Bike-Tda1501z.html

whats special and well hidden (~never shown in promo photos) for some reason, is the elegant, direct drive to pedal crank, stealthy, 3 ring compatible. motor

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=bofeili-sport-275&start=20&sa=N&biw=1421&bih=730&tbm=isch&imgil=axuyWyoW0PwiqM%253A%253B3zI-MriTHkJG0M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fitm%25252FBofeili-Sport-e-Bike-Lithium-Battery-electric-assisted-suspension-disc-brakes-%25252F321657694115&source=iu&pf=m&fir=axuyWyoW0PwiqM%253A%252C3zI-MriTHkJG0M%252C_&usg=__nsE9R09DiOUHHaMKQ4o-wdlmDAg%3D&ved=0ahUKEwig3tqv2evMAhXGkZQKHVj4C1M4FBDKNwhM&ei=lJtAV6DEHsaj0gTY8K-YBQ#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACWsbslsqFtD8IjjSemjiPNDNkmrdG_1vvxMVktH4_1QKufiIc7E1bnzczYgRsESW_13YTLg8xKWPHnlGhEwKatJJHolFSoSCdJ6aOI80M2SEYzp6aFXjg2QKhIJat0b--_1ExWQR6MqAIH-THGQqEgm0fj9Aq5-IhxHoyoAgf5McZCoSCTsTVufNzNiBEQToYoJ1meimKhIJGwRJb_1dhMuARkYhaLA-2UbgqEgnzEpY8eeUaEREurFwvHWYXSCoSCTApq0kkeiUVEQLHLp8V7Eou&q=bofeili-sport-275&imgrc=DJPRT6kLf8YKEM%3A

there is also a model with a conventional triangle mtb frame, which i prefer due to better battery placement options than the elegant and prettier frame i have. my plan for a biggish 15ah 36v lifepo4 (5-6kg) for mine is to bolt to the frame just behind the seat post - atop the rack mounts. not perfect, but lower & more central than a rear rack battery.

i have seen chinese 1 off vendors of these, longyue themselves do 1x i think on aliexpress, who will sell at a fair discount w/o battery, which is great if you prefer lifepo4 from another source, as i do.

I can buy them retail in oz for ~1750a$ complete, so maybe 1850$ w/ the better battery. all things being equal.

some detective work needed still, but uk/eu/usa must surely sell them someplace under some label/model. for ~$1500 US.

NB its a custom frame given the motor housing, so its factory only, not a kit motor.

BUT, its lovely for heat dissipation, which is why i wouldnt consider their carbon model.

u can get up to 550 watts in 36v as i recall, and more surely in 48v, but even my 350w is lame after a few minutes full power on my 12ah 18650 bottle battery. with lifepo4 and even 10ah lifepo4 i would be extremely, rather than very, happy

the welds are excellent

all the bits are good -tektro hydraulic (now) disk brakes, shimano,suntour front shocks,...

some search terms are:
TDE1202Z
Suzhou Longyue Lithium-Power Vehicle Ltd.
bofeili


contact them via aliexpress.
 
Might find one on ebay if you look hard enough.
However at:
... more than 60 pounds
... less than 250 watts
... fixed proprietary unknown motor
... 6.6 Ahr battery of unknown chemistry & construction
... no throttle
... dubious range and speed specifications
they are not going to be flying off the shelf.

Since you are obviously trying to promote them you might be better served by doing a detailed review and posting it in https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4
 
LewTwo said:
Might find one on ebay if you look hard enough.
However at:
... more than 60 pounds
... less than 250 watts
... fixed proprietary unknown motor
... 6.6 Ahr battery of unknown chemistry & construction
... no throttle
... dubious range and speed specifications
they are not going to be flying off the shelf.

Since you are obviously trying to promote them you might be better served by doing a detailed review and posting it in https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4
Click to expand...

you didnt get he context well.

its just a sample configuration. the basics are all top quality. get ~any power/battery u want.

i fail to see my incentive for promoting them, its just sad seeing $3k gearless hub drive crap sold to folks.

Its such a clear winner, yet unheard of, thats all. just helping with some clues on where they are hiding on the market. where is there a buck in that for me? in fact, it was a copy of an answer to a specific such question elsewhere, i figured it could benefit others also.
 
LewTwo said:
Might find one on ebay if you look hard enough.
However at:
... more than 60 pounds
... less than 250 watts
... fixed proprietary unknown motor
... 6.6 Ahr battery of unknown chemistry & construction
... no throttle
... dubious range and speed specifications
they are not going to be flying off the shelf.

Since you are obviously trying to promote them you might be better served by doing a detailed review and posting it in https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4
Click to expand...

Why am i reminded of "what did you think of the play mrs lincoln"

if you want to argue this isnt fundamentally better engineering (the motor is an extension of the pedal crank & no sprocket needed for an offset motors chain drive), fine, but thi is silly. You forgot it hasnt got a rack.
 
The OP reference a specific bike: http://suzhoulongyue.en.made-in-china.c ... 1501z.html which he claimed to have been riding for three years. Other than the factory web sites, and some chinese vendors advertisements, there is relatively little information available other than their specifications (and I always question Chinese factory specifications ... they sometimes seem to loose something in translation to reality).

True I do not think that there is anything remarkable, extraordinary or outstanding regards the specifications. The integrated mid drive/crank might be unique and very interesting (I actually like the concept) but there is relatively little real information or user experience available. It is thus relatively unproven technology and because of the proprietary nature of the frame it is a major liability if not reliable and repairable.

If the OP truly believes this is the 'worlds best factory ebike' then it seems to me he has the hardware and has had sufficient time/experience to evaluate the product. Therefore a detailed review to support his hypothesis would not be out of order.

P.S.
I did find one other thread on this motor ... https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=26995&start=25
 
LewTwo said:
The OP reference a specific bike: http://suzhoulongyue.en.made-in-china.c ... 1501z.html which he claimed to have been riding for three years. Other than the factory web sites, and some chinese vendors advertisements, there is relatively little information available other than their specifications (and I always question Chinese factory specifications ... they sometimes seem to loose something in translation to reality).

True I do not think that there is anything remarkable, extraordinary or outstanding regards the specifications. The integrated mid drive/crank might be unique and very interesting (I actually like the concept) but there is relatively little real information or user experience available. It is thus relatively unproven technology and because of the proprietary nature of the frame it is a major liability if not reliable and repairable.

If the OP truly believes this is the 'worlds best factory ebike' then it seems to me he has the hardware and has had sufficient time/experience to evaluate the product. Therefore a detailed review to support his hypothesis would not be out of order.

P.S.
I did find one other thread on this motor ... https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=26995&start=25
Click to expand...

Just trying to help fellow members. Thanks for confirming no good deed ever goes unpunished.

I am certain you hadnt read what i said before your initial comments. I already said you can have ~any power you want, & u bang on about the limited power listed in the sample spec sheet.

the maker is, i think u will find, a very large bike maker with a solid reputation to maintain.

I suspect the motor is from a third party, and i suspect the motor is used in some super hi end bikes out there, and they would rather not make a fuss about offering it in cheap models.

It has to be they are hiding it. all the snaps of the bikes obscure the motor arrangement. only the non motor side is shown, bar a few slip ups.

you to all intents say, o yes, but we dont know anybody who uses it. I do mate, and i am very happy-my other main point. my very point is info is hard to find, yet you raise it like i hadnt thought of it. and so on. very strange.
 
What is the deal here OP? Are you posting for a sales pitch or are you really trying to convince people you have the worlds best factory e-bike?
If it is the latter you should posts some photos of your bike, pics of the motor if you got and write a review. Bashing people for speaking their mind seems kind of rude. It seems you are barking at posters in the thread that do not praise it like you do, and for me the only reason I can think of for doing so is that if you are financial invested in just that e-bike. I might be wrong but if I am try a more civil tone and I am sure people will hear what you have to say.

You kind of leave things hanging. You say have any power and battery you like. But the crank is making sure that is not easy. And if one is to get "the worlds best factory e-bike" it seems a little strange one must ditch both the battery and the motor. After all, all you got left is a frame then. And surely that can not be the worlds best frame?

Or maybe you went a little over board with the thread title? After all, that is some claim you are having. Try to give more information if you feel your claim is warranted.
How can one get more power? Why buy an e-bike with a battery that even the most dedicated fan says to throw away?
 
FWIW, one of the nicest rides I tested at interbike last year had the coaxial crank motor. That is, a small dd motor had the pedals right on its axle.

Very smooth, much quieter than the bafang, bosch, or other mid drives with a gear train. I really liked the KISS principle of it. The motor is of course, a low rpm type, to match your pedal cadence. So there could be some hidden inefficiency with it compared to the bafang etc, which can have the motor spin faster. This would rear it's head only on starts I'd think, much like DD vs gear hub motors.

But I liked it. I was riding a 750w version. You still get the mid drive advantage, that is, multiplying your torque when you shift down for a steep hill.

I don't know about these particular bikes, but I liked the rugged simplicity of the coaxial crank motor.
 
dogman dan said:
FWIW, one of the nicest rides I tested at interbike last year had the coaxial crank motor. That is, a small dd motor had the pedals right on its axle.

Very smooth, much quieter than the bafang, bosch, or other mid drives with a gear train. I really liked the KISS principle of it. The motor is of course, a low rpm type, to match your pedal cadence. So there could be some hidden inefficiency with it compared to the bafang etc, which can have the motor spin faster

BUT the bofeili motor has 3 front rings and direct drive to compensate

. This would rear it's head only on starts I'd think, much like DD vs gear hub motors.

But I liked it. I was riding a 750w version. You still get the mid drive advantage, that is, multiplying your torque when you shift down for a steep hill.

I don't know about these particular bikes, but I liked the rugged simplicity of the

coaxial crank motor.
Click to expand...
- GOOD TRMINOLOGY

Thanks dogman, some sane input at last. I suspect its the same motor in play here.

Good point about no gearing. No sign of any that i recall from snaps of disassembled motors. On balance, that seems good. Who needs them with 3 rings on front. If no gears, whats to wear out?

May i ask what bike u were testing?

750w sounds awesome if u have the battery, but i can assure folk that 350w with the right battery (a 15ah 36v lifepo4 methinks), is very traffic and hill worthy. I am 75kg and the bike 30kg.

I have problems finding a gear which suits both the motor and my pedaling concurrently, probably as i am dumb, but its a wonderful ebike.

The crux of the matter is in a rhetorical question.

Folks, how would you like 24, or even 33 gears on the motor of your ebike? or even 3x14? on a Rohloff igh?
 
What is best for one is crap for another, that is the way it goes with any sort of vehicle. We have very different requirements in the ebike world, so nothing can make a consensus.

A detailed review is always a good service to the community. Newbies need it to know what they are going into, and experienced ebikers do appreciate every bit of info about what is available on the market. Describe the ride and handling, detail the components, say what you like and what you'd like improved.... Avoid sales pitch terms like "All the basics are top quality", for this is very subjective and experienced builders are perfectly aware that this is extremely far from reality.
 
MadRhino said:
What is best for one is crap for another, that is the way it goes with any sort of vehicle. We have very different requirements in the ebike world, so nothing can make a consensus.

A detailed review is always a good service to the community. Newbies need it to know what they are going into, and experienced ebikers do appreciate every bit of info about what is available on the market. Describe the ride and handling, detail the components, say what you like and what you'd like improved.... Avoid sales pitch terms like "All the basics are top quality", for this is very subjective and experienced builders are perfectly aware that this is extremely far from reality.
Click to expand...

the simple solution is dontread it if u prejudge it as shill.

I spent some hours collating what i could to point folk as ~easily in the right direction, as i wish others had done for me when i was looking.

re "best", those who can read will see i gave relevant details about my needs in a bike. cant be fairer.

Take it or leave it. No law says you have to read anything u dont want, tho manners and sense dictate it is better to refrain from commenting on the matter in such circumstances.

i stated my message concisely at the outset. i dont recall saying "full review of", nor do i recall seeing any here in the past. Just move on, try control f "review"?
 
i seem damned if do & damned if i dont..

i am it seems, a shill and making it up.

so i have to be the former to disprove the latter.

this guy e.g. actually sells them, tho only in quantity???, they are aften flexible

this is the one i would be tempted by, as it has better big battery placement options

https://exportscooter.en.alibaba.com/product/917184719-218763570/Top_quality_Newest_design_electric_bicycle_with_lithium_battery.html

as u can see, the price leaves plenty or room to make the $1500 budget


this seems their mainstream one, same frame as i have

(diff site, but u get the picture)

https://longyeah.en.alibaba.com/product/607523300-214004821/High_quality_26_mountain_e_bike.html

so my point is - it exists, there is a token guy who sells it

trust me. the 250w is really 350 watt & u can opt for ~550w or more -a waste of time with 18650 batteries methinks (lousy c rates), separate issue. there is even a carbon frame model with same motor.

as usual, they have a more hi spec export model, which i would suggest. The welds on the frame on mine are excellent. a good sign.

i have shown u the ~product

and the manufacturer

finding it in EU or usa is up to you if u r interested.
 
cycleops612 said:
i dont recall saying "full review of"
Click to expand...
Please don't feel attacked. I was just saying that you should, that it would be a good service to the ES community to post a review. Too often, when one likes a new bike, he is giving us a sales pitch instead of a detailed review. It is natural to say it is best with top quality components, when you have a new bike and enjoying it. Yet, we have plenty of such supelatives fed to us by manufacturers. What we need and appreciate the most, is how it feels and handles, a detailed list of components, buying and shipping experience...
 
Plus most happy non shill owners have at least one picture of their actual bike, usually with a big grin or a thumbs up or something... So if you are an actual owner, just realize people here might mistakenly think you're acting just like all the other no picture, defensive when questioned, best bike at unbelievable price claiming, no specs hustlers that are real shills.
 
Voltron said:
Plus most happy non shill owners have at least one picture of their actual bike, usually with a big grin or a thumbs up or something... So if you are an actual owner, just realize people here might mistakenly think you're acting just like all the other no picture, defensive when questioned, best bike at unbelievable price claiming, no specs hustlers that are real shills.
Click to expand...
very well, my too damning to be untrue answer is, are u sitting down, I DONT HAVE A SMARTPHONE. i know, i know - soon mother.

but it goes to show, u have to be careful about jumping to conclusions.
 
I have a bike with this motor, I think it's the same as in the flux bike. I've ridden 6000+km and it's been pretty ok.

Mine is this config, slightly different stickers though.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/electric-bike-bofeili-green-city-electric_60453450916.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.eHSPxn

I can post a more detailed review but basically I like the bike, but the bicycle parts are pretty bad and the battery mounting has given me grief a few times.
 
cycleops612 said:
Voltron said:
Plus most happy non shill owners have at least one picture of their actual bike, usually with a big grin or a thumbs up or something... So if you are an actual owner, just realize people here might mistakenly think you're acting just like all the other no picture, defensive when questioned, best bike at unbelievable price claiming, no specs hustlers that are real shills.
Click to expand...
very well, my too damning to be untrue answer is, are u sitting down, I DONT HAVE A SMARTPHONE. i know, i know - soon mother.

but it goes to show, u have to be careful about jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...

Do you have any access do digital cameras? If not, I would scan a snail mailed picture and post it for you. If you do have a digital, we can help you with the posting on the site. It's not the most straightforward, but very satisfying once you learn how.

WE LOVE PICTURES!!
 
linkdown said:
I have a bike with this motor, I think it's the same as in the flux bike. I've ridden 6000+km and it's been pretty ok.

Mine is this config, slightly different stickers though.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/electric-bike-bofeili-green-city-electric_60453450916.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.eHSPxn

I can post a more detailed review but basically I like the bike, but the bicycle parts are pretty bad and the battery mounting has given me grief a few times.
Click to expand...

yep, thats the model w/ the more standard frame than mine, the one i would have preferred in retrospect.

but as i said, i think i can mount a 15ah 36v lifepo4 pouch battery on the frame just behind the seat post, but i am agonising over 10ah. I never seem to use more than 25% of my current 12ah li-mn, so the 15ah may just be 1/3 dead weight - never fully used.

to all intents, the same bike for our purposes here.

oh well, i thought the parts listed were ok -shimano, tektro, suntour, wheels, tyres - i was impressed at the general level for a factory bike. Its not built to a price.

bolts seem decent stainless

your best display is probably your smartphone anyway, but yes, a weak area probably, dunno. i do love the 3 power settings display has tho. I use it a lot.

crap to non existent technical documentation
 
cycleops612 said:
linkdown said:
I have a bike with this motor, I think it's the same as in the flux bike. I've ridden 6000+km and it's been pretty ok.

Mine is this config, slightly different stickers though.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/electric-bike-bofeili-green-city-electric_60453450916.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.eHSPxn

I can post a more detailed review but basically I like the bike, but the bicycle parts are pretty bad and the battery mounting has given me grief a few times.
Click to expand...

yep, thats the model w/ the more standard frame than mine, the one i would have preferred in retrospect.

but as i said, i think i can mount a 15ah 36v lifepo4 pouch battery on the frame just behind the seat post, but i am agonising over 10ah. I never seem to use more than 25% of my current 12ah li-mn, so the 15ah may just be 1/3 dead weight - never fully used.

to all intents, the same bike for our purposes here.

oh well, i thought the parts listed were ok -shimano, tektro, suntour, wheels, tyres - i was impressed at the general level for a factory bike. Its not built to a price.

bolts seem decent stainless

your best display is probably your smartphone anyway, but yes, a weak area probably, dunno. i do love the 3 power settings display has tho. I use it a lot.

crap to non existent technical documentation
Click to expand...

If you want to add battery to the frame (the absolute best place without compromise), and don't have a large enough triangle, consider a frame bag that mounts over the top. The additive V2 is very nice, but expensive. There are cheaper ones out there too. Kinaye MS used to make one
 
cal3thousand said:
cycleops612 said:
linkdown said:
I have a bike with this motor, I think it's the same as in the flux bike. I've ridden 6000+km and it's been pretty ok.

Mine is this config, slightly different stickers though.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/electric-bike-bofeili-green-city-electric_60453450916.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.eHSPxn

I can post a more detailed review but basically I like the bike, but the bicycle parts are pretty bad and the battery mounting has given me grief a few times.
Click to expand...

yep, thats the model w/ the more standard frame than mine, the one i would have preferred in retrospect.

but as i said, i think i can mount a 15ah 36v lifepo4 pouch battery on the frame just behind the seat post, but i am agonising over 10ah. I never seem to use more than 25% of my current 12ah li-mn, so the 15ah may just be 1/3 dead weight - never fully used.

to all intents, the same bike for our purposes here.

oh well, i thought the parts listed were ok -shimano, tektro, suntour, wheels, tyres - i was impressed at the general level for a factory bike. Its not built to a price.

bolts seem decent stainless

your best display is probably your smartphone anyway, but yes, a weak area probably, dunno. i do love the 3 power settings display has tho. I use it a lot.

crap to non existent technical documentation
Click to expand...

If you want to add battery to the frame (the absolute best place without compromise), and don't have a large enough triangle, consider a frame bag that mounts over the top. The additive V2 is very nice, but expensive. There are cheaper ones out there too. Kinaye MS used to make one
Click to expand...
 
I agree cal31k, but custom batts are a bit rich for me. Having just discovered an 18650 bottle battery i had neglected during disuse is seemingly dead (a huge argument for resilient lifepo4 in my book, if i understand its properties correctly), i am wary of big spends.

Still, i think i have an idea on the matter for custom shaped pouch cell paks, better as a separate post, but briefly, u have to use all the same size cells- right? Yeah, but they dont have to be the same shape. so e.g. by combining square/rectangular/triangular pouches of same capacity (from the same maker would help ensure consistencey), great flexibility in shape of the pak could be had.
 
The motor is the Bofeili crank drive that's been around for quite a long time now. I've seen lots of nice bikes with it at the Chinese shows, but never seen a mainstream UK dealer selling one. I think a few USA dealers have imported them. Obviously, you can't get it in a kit to retrofit because it needs a special frame. I tried one and it was OK - similar to all the other 250w crank-drives with good torque for climbing in a low gear and reasonable speed for cruising in a high gear.

https://www.electricbike.com/2014-mid-drive/
 
d8veh said:
The motor is the Bofeili crank drive that's been around for quite a long time now. I've seen lots of nice bikes with it at the Chinese shows, but never seen a mainstream UK dealer selling one. I think a few USA dealers have imported them. Obviously, you can't get it in a kit to retrofit because it needs a special frame. I tried one and it was OK - similar to all the other 250w crank-drives with good torque for climbing in a low gear and reasonable speed for cruising in a high gear.

https://www.electricbike.com/2014-mid-drive/
Click to expand...

bingo, almost and sorta

its the sublink which provides a meaningful summary of the factory in chinas then (jan 2014) finished product

https://www.electricbike.com/eprodigy-bikes-new-e-bike-from-vancouver-canada/

the way i read it, he knowledgeably gushes about the motors engineering and quality.

it also contains the best (only?) side shots of the motor yet. Neat isnt it? Stealth?

He confirms my heat dissipation theory.

NB the easy removal of the motor.

it puzzles me that 24 vs 8 gears alone isnt as dead sexy to others as it is to me in a mid drive. Thats better than a ferrari.
 
d8veh said:
The motor is the Bofeili crank drive that's been around for quite a long time now. I've seen lots of nice bikes with it at the Chinese shows, but never seen a mainstream UK dealer selling one. I think a few USA dealers have imported them. Obviously, you can't get it in a kit to retrofit because it needs a special frame. I tried one and it was OK - similar to all the other 250w crank-drives with good torque for climbing in a low gear and reasonable speed for cruising in a high gear.
https://www.electricbike.com/2014-mid-drive/
Click to expand...

There have been any number of different mid drives designed and created but the number that have survived and prospered in the market is somewhat more limited. The problem is if you somehow burn up the controller (or other part) in two years can you find a dealer to order a replacement from or do have to trash the whole bike?
 
LewTwo said:
d8veh said:
The motor is the Bofeili crank drive that's been around for quite a long time now. I've seen lots of nice bikes with it at the Chinese shows, but never seen a mainstream UK dealer selling one. I think a few USA dealers have imported them. Obviously, you can't get it in a kit to retrofit because it needs a special frame. I tried one and it was OK - similar to all the other 250w crank-drives with good torque for climbing in a low gear and reasonable speed for cruising in a high gear.
https://www.electricbike.com/2014-mid-drive/
Click to expand...

There have been any number of different mid drives designed and created but the number that have survived and prospered in the market is somewhat more limited. The problem is if you somehow burn up the controller (or other part) in two years can you find a dealer to order a replacement from or do have to trash the whole bike?
Click to expand...

Other than bafang and a few others, your objections apply to all ebike kits/motors.

I can only repeat, the maker is one of the largest in the world, they just dont do their own marketing. The usual biz model. Obviously, take steps b4 u buy to ensure you have contacts if (or more likely, when) the dealer goes broke. U should do this w/ any bike. Controllers go poof cos u mess with them. Leave them be and they last. I hear of folk mixing and matching controllers constantly. Cant be the end of the world anyhoo.

The customised frame, yes of course. Bend that and you may well have trashed the bike, given prompt freight costs.
Mine (3 years come Aug.) has been dropped many times. its tough.

Were i north american, i would still opt for this bike over a 700 watt boat bike. Its a mercedes sports vs a pickup using a car analogy. Even a 250w bike can sing along and around and up anything w/o pedaling if you choose.

As i say, my 350w is great for my 75kg, while my crap battery claims it is delivering full power. 450 watts (cops would never know or guess) and a 15ah lifpo4 36v+ would be as fun as a ducatti. It has beautiful balance.

Lets get our thinking straight here?

we love ebikes, but a certainty is that energy storage/delivery vs weight will always be limited vs petrol & ICE. The difference is insane. A battery the size of a fridge holds about the same energy as a gallon of petrol sorta. a 150kw isnt huge on a regular car!!! I could mange fine on 250 watt for my 100kg gross.

I will confidently make a wild guess here. In a similarly limited scenario, say the 50cc racing bike class if it exists, I bet the first thing they do is bump the number of gears compared to powerful bikes.

As a kid, cars had 3 gears, now, 5/6/7/8. A racing bicycle has 33. A big freight rig - 18?

U see where this is heading?

The single best thing u can do to address an ebikes most fundamental limitations is to simply use the gears that are already on ~every MTB anyway (for the same reason, limits of pedal power) - 24 gears. with a bafang u remove 2/3 of what u already had b4 u motorise a mtb. It doesnt sit comfortably with me.

I love/hate the customised frame thing too. But it has to be for the fundamental benefit it provides.

Yes I know its not really 24 ratios, there are overlaps, but its a lot, and u can choose the straightest chain path from the options.
 
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