Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

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LI-ghtcycle
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Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 15, 2016 1:35 am

So I have really grown to enjoy the stretch cruiser (E-Zilla) we built, and decided I wanted the best of both the recumbent and "flat foot" style of bikes, so I will be making a custom stretch cruiser with similar style as this one:

Image

A friend of a friend has offered me shop space for the project, so I am very excited and have been busily gathering up all the supplies I will need to build!

Got a small loan from family, and so far, so good! :D

Here is a "before" pic of where I will be building:

Image

Image

This old building has a lot of history! They mainly restore classic cars, but they have a variety of tools & machines around that will be available for my use, and I am so honored to be given this chance! Been wanting to build my own frame for some time now, fixtures are next, and then 4130 Chromoly tubing & parts (BB, Head Tube, Drop outs, etc.).

Turns out that the HF TIG welder might be as good as the positive reviews after all, no headaches so far at the welding shop getting a regulator (I guess older versions didn't have compatible fittings) for the Argon wasn't a problem. :)

Got the space cleaned up a bit, bringing a welding table in Monday, w00t! 8)

Image

Image

Been learning a bit about the Willamette Falls (Oregon City Falls depending on who you talk to :wink: ) A/C Generator power plant!

https://oregonhistoryproject.org/articl ... AHMy-ArLy2

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Seems Oregon City was the site of the first A/C power plant west of the Mississippi river around 1890! (picture has it listed as 1889, reading further, that's inaccurate)

And here is a pretty neat video about this area & the industry that sprang up around the area in those days:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdZATFr ... e&t=10m27s
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by dogman dan » Oct 15, 2016 6:31 am

Stretch it in back too, for a much more comfortable ride. Get that seat off the rear wheel.

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 15, 2016 12:44 pm

I have ridden many miles on a recumbent with a very similar seating position, on a long trip and on a daily commutes, In my experience, taking the pressure of the up-right seating position away from just your sit-bones & arms, and spreading it out also to your hips & shoulders makes for a completely different level of comfort.

The only thing I have against some recumbents is many are too low (not enough visibility in traffic) and you spend extra energy just holding up your legs to the high pedals on some, so for me, the position being so near the rear wheel is really a non-issue when you are already suspended in a hammock-like seat, and use large tires designed to act as suspension.

Even with a 26" rear wheel, and 150lbs of bike, that Scwalbe Big Apple tire soaked up anything I threw at it, even when I hit a very steep 45 DEG "curb" at around 20 MPH+ and never caused me any trouble other than being very concerned that I might have damaged the wheel.

Even more so with a 24 x 3.0" tire (it has about the same outer diameter as a 26") that has even more ability to act as suspension, need a bit more cushion? Lower the air a bit!

I really think it's something I had to experience before I got it, if not for Rassy, (who gave me the Vision R40 I took on that trip to Ft Stevens) I would have never understood why so many older wiser folks than my self discovered recumbent bicycles and how amazingly comfortable they are, and why a doctor recently prescribed one for a friend who is recovering from a near death drowning. (He's riding a Catrike Villager Tadpole IIRC)

And sure, you can add other forms of suspension, I prefer balloon tires and hammock seats, IMHO, the essence of simplicity and comfort, not for trail riding for sure, but on the road, I don't believe it can be beat (and IMHO, adding shocks just adds unnecessary cost & complexity UNLESS you have moon crater roads and/or ride off road), but to each their own!

I have heard really good things about the fat bikes from a friend recently, so I have changed my opinion a bit, perhaps they are more practical than I thought (for an E-Bike at least, still not convinced they are the best choice off the sand/snow with so much larger/heavier tires/wheels & greater expense for an odd sized frame, tires, but who knows? Maybe the ultimate in "tire suspension" now :) )
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by Hillhater » Oct 15, 2016 5:11 pm

Interesting.
What are the main alterations you plan to make compared to that cruiser ?
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by knox1138 » Oct 15, 2016 5:24 pm

What front fork is that?

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 15, 2016 7:37 pm

Hillhater wrote:Interesting.
What are the main alterations you plan to make compared to that cruiser ?
I am going to stretch that design about 6 - 8 inches to get a bit more leg extension to the pedals, and have the rear seat slide forward & back for different people's inseams (shooting for average to tall size since there is less out there for the taller & larger folks) along with making extra room where the motor mounts to allow for a larger diameter hub motor and/or hubsinks.

The style of seat I want to use is much like this: (not necessarily this exact seat, but very similar, for the prototype that I will ride, I will addapt my Vision R40's seat)

Image

Image

Ideally I will also have a way for this same seat to be more of a true saddle, eliminating the back portion if some desire for the look, (it will still attach the same) but honestly, once you ride in one of these types of seats, I bet you'll never go back to the average bicycle saddle (aka medieval torture device). :wink:

The same reason that the recumbent exercise bikes in the gym fit everyone with just a slide of the seat and very comfortably, is the same reason this one will, and it will have the added bonus of having your feet low enough that you won't need "clipless" pedals & shoes to keep them up high as with some recumbents. (My R40 is ok in this reguard, but it's still a bit awkwardly high, and doesn't allow for an ideal rested position where you're able to put your feet down as comfortably as on this cruiser)


I will also have slightly different attachments (the clamping drop-out, much like a motorcycle's chain tensioner) to allow for a variety of mid to large diameter hub motors as mid-drive (Leaf 1500w, MXUS 3000w, Cromotor, etc.) and it will be built with more strength than the average frame, I have a friend who is both big & tall, who will be helping me test the design.

I will first be making & selling the frame, eventually expanding into a complete bike, and eventually a delta trike, but first I hope to sell a frame kit in this style for DIY builders.

If all goes as planned, I will take the new frame for some long trips and then hit the road on a long tour of the Oregon Trail this spring! :D
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 15, 2016 8:02 pm

knox1138 wrote:What front fork is that?
The fork on the E-Zilla (started as a Micargi Bronco) is just what it came with, a 1" rigid fork with dual crown, but I will be adding a girder/springer fork (depends on what I can find that is most practical) that will match the "chopper" look, otherwise I might just build the frame to accept more modern suspension forks.

I want this to be seen as transportation, not just a bicycle with a motor added, but not into motorcycle territory, the E-Zilla has a bit more of the "E-bike in motorcycle drag" look than this bike will, but as true E-Bike (a step between the two) with plenty of low end torque with out having to be as heavy as the more motorcycle like builds.

Currently, I am thinking I will use two of these 60v 20ah packs from Luna in saddle bags for extended range for a cross country tour:

Image

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/60 ... -pf-or-ga/

Being able to take a full self supported bicycle camping tour outfitted bike up to speeds close to 30mph is the goal but designed to cruise more at around 20 mph even on steep hills as I see the 60v as more of a "hot 48v" that will still have plenty of voltage even after years of use. :)

These batteries will fit nicely into the saddle bags, & I will stow the rest of my gear with my "Noah's Tarp" (a tarp/tent that will allow me to cover myself & the bike at the end of a day of riding), food etc. & sleeping bag behind the seat in waterproof bags such as I had on the Recumbent Retreat tour. 8)
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by dogman dan » Oct 16, 2016 6:58 am

Ok, I get it now,, you are aiming for a semi recumbent,, or at least that's what I call it. Like the Ezee.

With my back I simply cannot ride my semi recumbent. It has the seat too close to the rear wheel, and it just pounds the crap out of my crushed disks. I need to stretch that thing, or build from scratch one with the seat midway between the wheels.

We copied my re bikes frame for Amberwolfs trike. easy to do. This would be a great bike with about a foot longer behind the seat. Been thinking about an attachment that adds a foot, including some crude suspension. Then stokemonkey it, and build a giant trailer for it to haul.
Re bike with 2807 dd motor.jpg
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 16, 2016 10:12 am

dogman dan wrote:Ok, I get it now,, you are aiming for a semi recumbent,, or at least that's what I call it. Like the Ezee.

With my back I simply cannot ride my semi recumbent. It has the seat too close to the rear wheel, and it just pounds the crap out of my crushed disks. I need to stretch that thing, or build from scratch one with the seat midway between the wheels.

We copied my re bikes frame for Amberwolfs trike. easy to do. This would be a great bike with about a foot longer behind the seat. Been thinking about an attachment that adds a foot, including some crude suspension. Then stokemonkey it, and build a giant trailer for it to haul.
Re bike with 2807 dd motor.jpg
Yeah, I guess what I am building would be classified as a semi-recumbent, but I am curious, with the bike pictured you have a very straight up & down back rest, and correct me if I am wrong, but that would still have the majority of the rider's weight on the saddle portion as opposed to the backrest?

I am still developing my design, but I don't have as a severe back issue as you Dogman, so I wouldn't dream of saying what would be best for you, only you know, however I am curious if when sitting on that bike if you are able to steer with just a pinky?

If not, I would encourage you to try a more true recumbent seating position, where you really have your hips and shoulders being suspended, and you steer as much with your hips as anything, because they are supported in a way that really is very different from a typical chair, more like a recliner. :)

However, I hope to be able to keep my current bike's style and ability to have my feet down & out while riding, but when I lean back, I am supported by a very cushy hammock style seat, and any bump I come across is absorbed by the springy give of the webbing of the recumbent seat, as I am really in more of a suspension seat than something truly solid.

The only draw-back of this seating position is on some recumbents, it requires the pedals to be higher than I find comfortable, that is where I am compromising so that I can have more of a "lazy boy" recliner position (before you put the foot rest up high) or recumbent exercise bicycle you find in the typical gym or fitness center.

On my Vision R40's seat, there is also a memory foam pad in the mesh for the "saddle" part, and the big benefit of a mesh seat is it also breathes! So if you sweat (I love to pedal so I do! :D ) it is more easily allowed to evaporate, keeping me dry, so I never really need those "bicycle shorts" that is typically used, just some comfortable breathable MTB or other style shorts with moisture wicking underwear & socks (merino wool socks & quick-dry underwear & jersey under however many layers I need for cold/wet weather) and I really have had no issues.

If it is needed, I could always incorporate a sort of shock system for the seat mount, and I will see what is available first, but there is no reason I couldn't build the frame with a 1 1/8th" head tube instead of the typical cruiser 1" to allow for more suspension fork options, but of course my design will take a different style with much more angle to the head tube, which also gives some flex along with the long frame.

A friend has an old school girder fork he wants to show me for the current bike, and I might build something similar, but I am trying to avoid too many custom parts other than the frame & motor mounts.

That is part of what I really enjoy about mounting a hub motor this way, it's already designed to go about the RPM you want at around 48v or so with the typical winding, is nearly silent, and uses the bicycle's gearing.

I prefer IGH's and will probably be using a Nexus or Sturmey Archer (Sturmey's RX-RK5 5 speed http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/rx-rk5 is looking very promising!)

Image

I will just need to make a custom cog/sprocket with freewheel carrier as with the NuVinci one I use now to allow for separate pedal & motor gearing, as I prefer to have a separate chain for the motor, so that way your pedal chain isn't going to see as much increased wear.

Image
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by Hillhater » Oct 16, 2016 4:25 pm

Guys,
What is the reasoning behind the extreme headstock/fork angle on these semi recumbents.... ( but notLI ghtcycles original crusier ?) ..
Is it just to get the hand bars back far enough for the stretched seat frame and reclined seat position ??...or is there a more technical handling advantage ?

Dogman, i assume you have considered the XtraCycle kit or similar , ? At least for a trial.
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by dogman dan » Oct 17, 2016 6:43 am

On my Re-Bike semi recumbent,, yes the backrest is not used to support much weight,, which is part of why my back gets pounded riding it. It's also too high to provide lumbar support, worsening the issue.

You can't buy an extracycle attachment anymore, they stopped making them. But yes,, I keep thinking how to make one, especially if it could somehow be an attachment that included suspension.

I have made a home brew extracycle extension, but it' fits mtb's. Modify it to fit the Re bike is an option. Winter is when I get bored and start welding weird shit. Last years project satisfied what I wanted so good though,, it kind of takes some of the desire to try something else away.

Not a bent, but it could be a semi bent pretty easy Just sit on the rear carrier works well enough, though the bars would need to be longer to ride like that all the time.
Finished cargo mixte..jpg
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by Hillhater » Oct 17, 2016 7:12 am

New Xtracycle kit available... http://www.xtracycle.com/leap-diy-kit/
Also , do you remember how Justin configured his xtracycle modified frame for the cross country ride ?
In particular moving the handle bars back onto the original seatpost location, effectively creating that semi recumbent , pedel forward, riding position.Image
Last edited by Hillhater on Oct 17, 2016 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 17, 2016 10:48 pm

Yep! That is the way to do it! Very comfortable, especially when you lean it back even a bit more, and have a suspended seat!

Thud Buster and similar suspension seat posts are neat, but imagine your entire seat (to include back rest & saddle area) being one big springy cushion ... not just a pogo-stick like the cheap spring saddles, but something that gives, but still supports you with out feeling like you're riding in a car with blown shocks :wink:
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by tigcross » Oct 27, 2016 12:41 am

hey there LI-ghtcycle, I've just read through your post and it looks like a great project, I've been working on and riding a two-wheel recumbent for awhile, and while my project is a a little different than yours, I have a couple of observation from my experience:

I recommend placing the back wheel as far behind the rider as possible, in order to cut down on head-whip, which is what happens when you go over bumps. the closer the back wheel is to the riders head, the more head-whip there is, and eventually you will start to notice it in your neck. Also, the handling is greatly improved by having the rider as centered as possible in the vehicle.

One of the ways to lengthen the wheel-base without adding too much overall vehicle length is to run small diameter wheels with extended chainstays. You then do need to account for the lower top speed and remedy (if you want) by going to to a higher voltage. My 17" outer diameter wheel tops out at 50 kph at 72 volts. Also, (and I expect you already know this) a fringe benefit of the smaller wheel diameter is increased torque.

Have you looked at the TDCM internal gear DD hubmotor on ebikes.ca? I think it could be a great motor for your application.

weld on

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 27, 2016 8:51 pm

Heya Tigcross!

I appreciate you input, and I am curious what style of recumbent you ride? I rode for some time on my Vision R40, and never noticed any difficulty with my neck being sore or otherwise, and I wonder if maybe it doesn't have as much of a laid-back position?

This is partially what I am building my design off of:

Image

( I will have a seat that will have a very similar design/position for the rider, laid-back enough to be connected at the hips & shoulders to the bike, but not so far back as my R40, so that I won't have to crane my neck as much looking forward.)

The main thing that I noticed on my R40 that I am going to change, is I will have a much lower BB position, so I won't have to have my legs so high to keep them on the pedals, and if the terrain is sketchy, (ice, wet leaves, loose gravel, etc.) I can put my feet down and have greater stability. With the R40, this wasn't really possible.

(Not my pic, but here is a pic to illustrate the riding position of on an R40:)

Image

When I went from Oregon City to Ft. Stevens, I was very comfortable, and the seating position has your head pretty much over the axle of the rear wheel, however, I never had any issues, YMMV. :)

I really like the 24" tires as they give me the option to have 3" wide tires and still be slightly smaller than a traditional 26" wheel, and this allows me to have more "tire suspension" and I will post a pic later tonight of my latest design that will allow for suspension of the seat if one would desire.

I also prefer the larger tire diameter for the greater ability of the wheel to flex than a smaller one, and since I am running my motor as mid-drive, not in the wheels, I can still gear the final drive to keep the motor happy. :)
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 27, 2016 10:12 pm

tigcross wrote:

Have you looked at the TDCM internal gear DD hubmotor on ebikes.ca? I think it could be a great motor for your application.

weld on
Oh actually I hadn't seen this newer DD with 5 Speed Sturmey Archer Hub combined!

(Just now checking it out on Ebikes.ca)

That is really interesting, I will have to take a look thanks!
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by tigcross » Oct 27, 2016 10:52 pm

Hi LI-ghtcycle, my first recumbent was actually a Varna SWB, very similar to your R40 accept that it was an under-steer,with the handlebars attached to the fork crown. Here's a photo from George's site. It was actually my first ebike as well as I added a Zap friction motor, and that was what sent me down the rabbit hole...

Image

I am now putting the finishing touches on my new bike that I started last February, and I'll do up a post about it as soon as it is presentable.

Here's a link to a post about my last bike which I rode for about a year and a half. It used a big DD hubmotor in a 24" wheel with a 2.5 inch tire similar to what you are planning, but it also had rear suspension. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=73587
my goal is to create a two wheel vehicle with the privileges and licencing of a bicycle, but as much of the convenience, speed and cargo capacity of a car as I can legally get away with (I do stray pretty far into the gray areas of legal).

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 28, 2016 12:34 am

Interesting set-up!

I too want something more powerful than the typical limits given for E-Bikes, but I would be fine with a limited top speed, I just want the watts to climb the hills at the same speed as the flats! 8)

I appreciate the high BB being there for aerodynamic reasons, however, for me, the trade-offs are too great, I much prefer the more neutral seating position and the ability to put my feet down much more than the typical recumbent allows.

I also have come to the conclusion that the "problems" with the typical DF bike design have long been solved many decades ago, and there nearly as many designs from the past that have been produced as to show our "new" designs to be more of a re-hash of good ideas, simply put, nothing new under the sun.

As an example, here is a pic of a recumbent from the 1930's! :shock:

http://www.recumbents.com/forums/topic. ... IC_ID=5672

Image

*** Edit I found a Video too! w00t! ***

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/steering-wheel-cycle

That said, I too started with motorcycles (standard then bullet style) many years ago, in a quest for speed and excitement, and didn't discover the wonderful world of the recumbent style seating position till around 2011 when Rassy (an ES member here) gave me the gift of the Vision R40 that I own today!

For me, and E-Bike should be just as comfortable as it should be efficient and powerful.

Not a vehicle masquerading as a bicycle, but real transportation that is practical in that it can propel it's self just as well with out pedaling as with, but keeping outside of the weight and power of a motorcycle, something in-between.

I generally only ride between 20 - 25 mph, however, now that I work across the river, there is a short stretch of road that is 45 MPH, and right now with my current controller, I am limited to more like 35 MPH max (while climbing this hilly road) however, with just a bit more watts, I am sure I could keep up with traffic, however, that would be the upper limit, and honestly, I would prefer to bypass this stretch of road and stay closer to 30 MPH max, but having the option is really nice.

Fortunately, this is a road frequented by bicyclists, so even when I am traveling closer to 25 - 30 mph on this stretch, I am not completely out of place (but you have to take up a good 3rd of the road or the idiots will pass with-in inches! :roll: ).
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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tigcross
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by tigcross » Oct 28, 2016 12:55 pm

I completely agree with all of your points, and I'm also working to make such a vehicle. On my new one I've gone to 17" wheels to get the overall vehicle height down (but not too low, as I need to be seen by, and see cars) it also allows me to get my BB height a little lower than it was before. One thing I did notice when I went to a long wheelbase was that the feet-getting-knocked-off-the-pedals issue mostly went away. Having the BB cantilevered over the front wheel in a short wheelbase bike makes for a lot more movement and bouncing at the pedals.

Speaking of short wheelbases, this was my version 2 ebike, I made it before all of the modern electric drive options and batteries were out there. (2003) It used a monster 330 amp 48 volt Etek motor and was a generator bike, meaning that my pedals drove a generator instead of the rear wheel. Not super efficient, but the benefits of not needing to worry about a chain line or gearing is pretty nice. It also means you can pedal all then time. This evil monster would do 90 KPH, and get up to that speed really quickly.

In the end I abandoned the short WB as it was not stable enough at high speeds and didn't provide as much low-slung battery space as a LWB. I've also trimmed my top speed requirements down to 50 KPH. I've gone back to a generator drive for my new bike.
Tig Cross Ebike V2.jpg
Tig Cross Ebike V2.jpg (13.56 KiB) Viewed 1770 times
Tig Cross Ebike V2 belt drive.jpg
Tig Cross Ebike V2 belt drive.jpg (17.43 KiB) Viewed 1770 times

LI-ghtcycle
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 29, 2016 10:48 am

Wow! That is quite the beast! :D What did it weigh?

I tried my R-40 first as a LWB and USS, but quickly decided I preferred both the OSS (made a mast from an old junk frame) and CLWB or MWB configuration best for maneuverability at lower speeds.

Odd that now I prefer a much longer wheel-base in the form of my current ride, I think it is mainly because of the more natural seating & pedaling position.

I have been looking at several different designs and was pleasantly surprised that the wheelbase I will be using is very similar to a Easy Racer Tour Easy Classic.

Image

I'm still deciding what seat I will use, but so far the Sun EZ has one of the more modular designs that looks simple to mount and build the frame for.

Here is my latest drawing:

Image

I suppose it would be possible to put some form of shocks on the back side of the seat, but with the right seat, I don't really see it being necessary.
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by tomjasz » Oct 29, 2016 2:32 pm

I keep hoping extracycle will get the replacement Leap on the market. I'm destined for needing an outrigger like their cargo frame. For now my most comfortable frames are the Townie geometry. I couldn't get up or out of a recombent seat. Flat foot and completely upright are a must for my comfort. My recent addition Suntour NCX seat was a step forward. I have been riding and working on 3 KHS smoothie frames. On is my primary and a mid drive 1000W. The other two are wife and guest bikes.

Oddly my most comfortable ride is another hardtail Trek Pure flat foot. It seems like the front motor is the most comfortable ride of all. I change seats whenever I ride a bike and the combination gel Selle Respiro and NCX post pretty much protect my trashed back.

I'm wondering what effect a rear motor has. I found the bike less comfortable with a rear motor. My imagination?

I'm watching and enjoying this build. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 29, 2016 6:04 pm

I love the Smoothie frames!

I think that would be an excellent bike to build up with a BBS02 or BBSHD.

Funny how the bicycles are finally getting back to styles of frames we seemed to have forgotten before the "10 speed craze" of the 70's. :wink:

I will keep a more basic saddle for just getting around town, the recumbent seat is more for long tours, but I like them for the extra storage on the back too, Vision has a pack that just hangs off the back very convenient! (Much like a back-pack that you don't have to wear, but comes off when you go inside very easily.)

I took my R-40 seat off and held it up against the "E-Zilla" bike, and it looks like it could work, but probably still too leaned back for the riding position i prefer for this bike.

I am thinking about using one of the Recycled Recumbents Seats too, as it looks to be an improved version of the seat I already love:

Image

That, and it should be pretty easy to adapt! :)
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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tigcross
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by tigcross » Oct 31, 2016 6:29 pm

Hey, have you seen one of these Giant chopper frames? I just bumped into on use up here in Victoria. It looks close to what you are looking to build
http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified- ... E_28070058

LI-ghtcycle
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 31, 2016 8:16 pm

Interesting, didn't know they made one, too bad it's no longer made, (think they only made it in 2005?) nice looking bike. :)
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

LI-ghtcycle
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Posts: 3872
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Re: Winter (Extra Stretched Cruiser) Frame building project!

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Nov 02, 2016 12:40 pm

Here is a better pic of the style of saddle I want, and will eventually design a seat that will give both the vintage styling, and advantage of the full back-rest.

For now, just a cut & paste from one of my favorite saddle designs from a 1939 Crocker motorcycle:

Image

The springs would be one on each chain stay, and the saddle/seat with the back-rest would just be an entirely different seat that would bolt on in the same place, however, the saddles would both be attached to a 1 inch square channel, allowing them to move forward and back for different size inseams.

The seat height will be very low to begin with, so it should fit shorter riders well with a sliding forward of the saddle to shorten the reach to the pedals.
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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