first time buyer

Hi all,

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks now and am looking to purchase my first e-bike conversion kit. I have a supercycle hybrid 700c bike that is about 7 years old that I was planning to use for this conversion.



my plan for the bike is mostly to commute the 13km to work and back home. I live in a fairly hilly location in Canada.
I have been keeping my eye on the Dillenger kits and they look to have gone on sale.
http://dillengerelectricbikes.com/electric-bike-kits/best-sellers/off-road-electric-bike-kit-samsung-power-by-dillenger.html
I was hoping to get some advice on if this is a decent kit or not as I can buy a golden motor magic pie in Canada but would have to have the Dillenger shipped to my brothers in North Carolina and pick it up in the spring. I am basically looking to get the best bang for my buck. Dillenger is a fair bit cheaper with the exchange rate then the Magic Pie. In the end I would like to spend under $1000 CND.

Thanks
Jeff

You’re adding practically 24lbs to a fairly lightweight bicycle. More than 1/2 of that weight in the wheel. Which btw, you’ll be forced using a screw on freewheel instead of cassette. Screw on freewheels have no outer bearing supporting the smaller cogs. Over time, if you pedal significantly, this may lead to fracturing the motor cover said freewheel attaches to.

How big of hills will you encounter? This kit linked provides little RPM/V winding information and you’re intending to use a fairly large diameter 700C wheel. Anything very steep and you’re gonna be majorly disappointed.

I’m not a fan of this plan…

If you’re looking at very steep hills BBS02 would be a much better choice. Also lighter weight and much easy to deal with flat tires, gearing, brakes, etc.

I’m not certain about the BB (bottom bracket) width of your frame but it’s 68-73mm I think the BBS02 would be a much wiser choice than any DD hub motor for this bike.

If you must have DD motor, ebikes.ca carries a 9RPM/V 9C variant which "might" solve steep hill climbing needs in such a large wheel but you're still be stuck using a screw on freewheel which I've come to loathe...

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/motors/m2707rd.html

I did a DD hub motor kit and while I like it, I wish I'd done a mid-drive. I totally agree with YKick, do a BBS02 mid-drive, you'll likely be very happy with it's performance.

http://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/700c-Rear-Black-Magic-Conversion-Kit.html

Welcome to the forum.

There are a number of reasons I would suggest staying away from that Dillinger kit. One is the battery. The Samsung 29E battery cell is rated for less than 1C normal discharge. It can handle short burst discharges up to 2.9C. But that means the 11.4Amp battery that comes with the kit can't handle more than 11 amps normal use, with short hops to 33 amps. That's abysmal performance for 1000w motor. It might work for a 500 watt motor.


Since you're starting with a light weight hybrid road bike, you probably don't want to add a motor that weighs ~10-15kg. Direct drive hub motors are amazing things, silent, smooth, efficient, and they are also heavy as f^@#. For that kind of bike, and because you have hills, you'll be happier with a geared hub, or a mid drive.
The BBS02 is a great mid drive to match that bike. A MAC geared hub motor would also be a good match. http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=50_45&product_id=184

Wolfeman why would you have wanted the mid-drive over the hub motor?

Ykick the hills we have in town are nothing compared to say San Fransisco we just have alot of ups and downs in town, nothing overly large. But over 13 km it can get fairly tiring and I am hoping to get to work sweat free.

Where would the cheapest place be to purchase a BBS02. The seem to be fairly expensive here in Canada.

Do geared hub motors still allow you to ride the bike with the power turned off or will you have a drag feeling with it? This was the main reason I was steering away from golden motor as I want the option on my ride home from work to not necessarily need the assistance.

Thanks for the info on that Dillenger kit Drunkskunk, I think I will steer clear of the dillenger model.

Jeff

Not sold on a BBS2 as a die hard daily commuter vs. the (current top line & improved) BBSHD.

The right side (where the front cog attaches) of the motor uses a plastic-type cover. Good for about 2-5 years, depending on riding style, before the plastic cover disintegrates, leaving the internal gears to outside influences (grime, rain, mud, snow, etc.). My BBS2's internals finally failed after about 4+ years of hard use. The clutch mechanism broke/froze leaving the drivetrain stuck and unrideable (rear wheel gets frozen) is what finally made me throw the motor away. I noticed the plastic side cover after regreasing the internals from 2 years of initial use. Just FYI.

Edit: just noticed your bikes fork. Rigid. Steel? Anyways, put a medium/small sized 350-500w front geared motor on it and you get a simple easy 2wd system. Motored front wheel & human powered rear wheel gives the rider the best of both worlds without the feeling of being on a "crutch". A step up would be a lighter direct drive front motor that Justin's Ebike store offers, catering that motor to front suspension & thru-hub axles (which are stronger).

the back end says that its aluminum. Pretty sure that includes the forks....

At <500w power levels (some folks would say 750w ) type of fork material is of less importance when you put torque arms on the motor. Torque arms are required on front motors (and rear motors). I wouldn't buy a complete kit from a vendor if they didn't supply one as part of the package, it's just good ethics.

The importance of the torque arms are to prevent the motors axle nuts from screwing loose. Use a big heavy powerful 1000+ watt front motor on a front fork, get 2 torque arms.

My first conversion was a powerful 200w front geared 20" wheel installed on a rigid aluminum folding bike. 18mph max @36v. IRL, more like 12-15mph. God, I miss that bike .

1st time conversion is usually a confusing (and the most fun due to learning potential) time as there are many ways to beat a horse . Going a mid motor or a front motor install is about the same level of installation skill required. A few weeks here, and your still at "infancy" stage. "One needs to learn to crawl before you walk" is the saying, or Yoda would say "Crawl you must do, then walk. Hrrhrrm." Keep reading stuff and you things start to click and trend. But don't get bogged down by choices. Make a move and "Getterdun!". You won't regret.

It’s taken me a while to warm up to the BBS02 unit but there’s some things about it which might give me pause to rely on it for my “only” daily commuter?

There’s a couple holes near the controller cover screws on my older version which can allow water inside. I blocked off one of ‘em using silicone sealant. I left the bottom hole open so that water could drain out if any got inside.

I do have other ebikes if something does go south so I’m not stuck without vital transport. Hell, the other day I rode close to a thick black trash bag which got sucked up into my rear derailleur - frocked it up good. I managed to get it dug out and limped home but it bent the shit outta a nice Shimano Deore LX. And broke one of the limit tabs thereby making it junk.

But, I have my front geared hub folding bike which always serves me well and I rode it for a few days until a replacement derailleur arrived. Wasn’t any fault of the BBS02 but it goes to show how things can and will happen?

I’m also kinda leaning towards melodious’ suggestion of a front geared hub? Your forks may actually be steel? Will a magnet stick to ‘em? Even if alloy forks, a pair of TAs (torque arms) and sub 1000W hub would probably be safe enough, IMO?

If going the front geared hub route you really should give ebikes.ca a long look and maybe even Ypedal (ES mod in green font) a shout about current offerings? I think Ypedal has dealt some fine ezee front hubs before?

Good luck!

Geared motors will freewheel when not under power, so you can pedal without drag. Direct drive have only 1 moving part, to there is some drag when pedaling and not under power. We call that drag "Cogging", because of the unique way it feels when the motor turns without power. Some people find it an issue, Some don't.

It's possible to put a hub motor on an aluminum front fork and not get bit. It's also possible to kiss a wild rattlesnake and not get bit. That doesn't make either a good idea. Putting a hub on a steel fork is fine, but you do want torque arms. Actually, you want torque arms on any hub motor. It doesn't matter, front or rears, protect your rod, or you'll shed some tears. Axle rod, that is. You'll be much better off using a rear motor, regardless.

I'd be wildly surprised if those forks were aluminum. Aluminum has almost entirely given way to carbon fiber composites for lightweight forks. Steel is the usual budget choice because it's cheap, reliable, fault tolerant, and much stiffer than aluminum.

The welds on that fork probably look way different than those on the frame. Use a magnet to be sure that it's steel.

Even if it is steel, use torque arms to keep a front motor from prying the dropouts open.

is this a good price for a BBS02? Any advice on a battery to go with this and do I need anything else?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-Bafang-BBS02-48V-750W-Ebike-Electric-bicycle-Motor-8fun-mid-drive-electric-bike-conversion/32659273351.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.6522va&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10062_10056_10055_503_10054_10059_10099_10078_501_10079_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10051_10106,searchweb201603_2,afswitch_1,single_sort_0_default&btsid=7b6882ad-3957-4e28-b9cb-f66833d1e2d2

I have also confirmed that the forks are magnetic

That price isn't bad. But be aware: The BBS02 comes in a 500w and a 750w version. That Aliexpress add calls it a ">400w". Counterfeits, Fakes, and Frauds are normal on sites like that. Or, it could be just a typo. If there is a problem with the motor, even if it actually is legit, you have about zero recourse with the company if they don't want to help. Buying from a reputable vendor gives you some assurance that you get what you pay for, and have someone to honor a warranty if there is a problem.

It's a gamble. If you can afford to lose your money, it might be worth the risk. If you can't, don't.

Nice spot in the triangle for a good battery the most important part. No cheap no name battery.

First of all, What part of Canada ?
Different people have different definition's of what a hill is.

Second I would, Never , buy a battery pack from E-Bay or Ali

Go to the Battery Section of E.S. and spend a couple of days or even weeks reading up on Batteries.

Never had a front hub myself, If I did I would want it to be as light as possible,
under 2.8 kg, less even better.
A rear hub you can go heaver .

You can save some money on BBS02 but if there’s any problem you’ll be on your own. My 1 year old BBS02 suffered a duff controller about 9-10 months in but the good folks at Luna Cycle were very easy and fair to work out a replacement. The email service ticket system worked great for me.

Battery pack shipments can seemingly be tough? And international? I’m not sure what to tell you since you’re in another country? If I didn’t already use RC Lipo I would likely buy Luna battery packs. But, I can drive 110 miles up the road and deal with ‘em while I’m visiting family? You’re on the other side of the continent in a different country….

I will say that I'm a HUGE fan of triangle battery bags. Yeah, the Shark and Dolphin packs looks sleek but for how long can they bounce around bolted to water bottle lugs? Triangle bags can be stuffed in many different and "padded" ways while hiding a lot of wire nest sins.

Yes, these BBSXX units are seemingly rather expensive. At least compared to many generic hub motor kits. Pretty sure you could find a modest power front hub geared motor kit for under $300 shipped not including battery?

And there’s always gonna be healthy debate between front/rear hubs? Which is “better” is often personal preference.

There’s a lot going for front hubs in regard to wheel spoke durability, retaining stock gearing, ease of installation, etc. Yeah, you can’t pop wheelies and if you apply too much power while leaning on slick surface it can wash out on you. But, rear hub motor also requires much more bicycle mechanical level of skill to properly install and setup, IMO.

Spokes, rim and lacing being equal, I can assure you that rear hub motors will suffer spoke breakage before front hub motors. And lets not forget how many more puncture flat tires rear wheels suffer compared to front tires?

I just helped my coworker swap rear motor tire/tube yesterday on an hour break and it took the entire hour. Granted, I didn’t have my usual tools/setup but it was a solid hour job with both of us pecking on it. Motor wiring, torque arms, derailleur/chain, running around looking for the tire air chuck, etc.

Do you see how back-forth the topic of front/rear hub motors becomes? I’m just as conflicted as when I started 10 years ago, LOL…

Seriously, front hub motor would be cheap and quick. Pretty good too. You’d be riding like a champ and wearing a big grin.

Now back to BBS02 - I’m really digging it but ‘wasn’t always understood. Took me a little while to figure out the gearing and how to best use it since it’s so much different than hub motor power? But now that I’ve got it figured out it’s really a nice ride. I can ride terrain that would make me cringe with a hub motor.

In an odd way it’s kinda safer. I focus more on dodging cars than dodging potholes.

Choices, choices, confusing, I know…

Scooterman101 - I am in South Western Ontario Canada, so I wouldnt say that I am dealing with very big hills here. Heck our ski hill is called the Byron Bump for a reason, it takes 5 seconds to ski down it!

I am definitely going to read a bit more on batteries as for the motor I had originally started looking at the front hub motors for their ease of installation and lower costs but was reading that a lot of them wouldn't do well at getting me up hills on its own and they also caused a significant balance issue with the bike. I think you guys have talked me out of purchasing anything directly from china and I will try to purchase something in North America. I also dont have an issue buying from the states as I can have it shipped to my brother and pick it up at a later date. I am just trying to figure out what the best bang for my buck is and have an enjoyable ride. I am not overly concerned with speed and my commute is 30km in total. I want it to get me up and down some smaller hills on its own so I am mostly only having to pedal on flat terrain. I dont want to break the bank on this so about $1000 was what I was willing to spend.

Pretty much everything comes from China one way or another. There are basicly three tiers of vendors. I won't name them all, just examples. Like many things, the level of service and completeness of the "kit" is counterbalanced by increased cost, so it often comes down to, how much do you want to get your "hands dirty", how avert to risk you are and how big is your pocketbook.
Top tier;
Ebike CA, also called Grin. They are in Canada and are the mentors of this forum. Top quality products which they actively vet, best service in the sport, pricey. Fast delivery.
EM3ve, an Englishman in China and member here. Paul has been at it a while and we watched him builld the Co. I have wondered if he would ever burn out, but he still, after 4 or 5 years, giving personal attention. Good for Mac geared hub motors that can handle more extreem conditions and mid-drives. Very good, but expensive batteries that he can personlize. Delivery can take awhile.
Luna Cycles, the "new kid on the block", they seem to try hard. Neat little accessories. Some mixed reviews here.
Middle tier;
Elifebike
Greenbikekit
BMS Battery, Chinese vendors shipping from the mainland or Hong Kong. I have used all three over the years and have been happy. In the beginning communcation was difficult, but has(and is)improving all the time. Double checking orders via email is advised, as it is hard to ship things back. "Kits" require some ASM. Basic soldering skills advised. Probably best values for informed builder. MIx ups can occur, but for straight forward "kits" are rare. Multi-bike builders can save a lot and can afford most losses over time.
Special notes on BMS Battery. Probably the biggest vendor in the World. Recent orders from BMS Battery have been fast(5Business days). Debatably, the best value batteries, high volume turn-over assures "freshness" My De Facto source.
Thrid tier;
Alibaba
Bangood
etc., I have ordered sm. stuff w/ no problems, but am nervious to order anything major.

For general commuting w/out high speed, hub motors are easier to use and maintain. But performance envelop is not wide(think car w/one gear).
Direct Drive motors offer best value, but many if us here don't care to use a Frisbee sized motor on a skinny bike.
A geared mini if properly matched to wheel size can provide speeds up to 22 mph and still climb moderate hills.
A larger geared can get to over 25 mph and handle most hills. Fit riders can midigate any hill issuses to a large degree.
Many feel the low 20's mph is a good compromise speed. Fast enough to be fun, but still be able to input w/ legs. Over 25 mph requires special gearing.
Far and away, the most common geared mini for a road bike is the Q100, called the Cute @ BMS B. Many "techie types" like the sine wave controller/LCD displays w/many features. Some prefer simple controllers w/ basic features. Much reading can be done here using search words like, Cute, Q100, Q100C, SLCD-3.
Members crossbreak and chas58 have built nice roadies using the Q100 and I use many of them. This is a Q100C(cassette)rear in a mountain bike;

Although you may not need stealth, stealth techniqques make for a clean looking bike. A german, Nader, is the master of this;
https://www.electricbike.com/mini-hub-motors/

blaker78 said:

Scooterman101 - I am in South Western Ontario Canada, so I wouldnt say that I am dealing with very big hills here. Heck our ski hill is called the Byron Bump for a reason, it takes 5 seconds to ski down it!

I am definitely going to read a bit more on batteries as for the motor I had originally started looking at the front hub motors for their ease of installation and lower costs but was reading that a lot of them wouldn't do well at getting me up hills on its own and they also caused a significant balance issue with the bike. I think you guys have talked me out of purchasing anything directly from china and I will try to purchase something in North America. I also dont have an issue buying from the states as I can have it shipped to my brother and pick it up at a later date. I am just trying to figure out what the best bang for my buck is and have an enjoyable ride. I am not overly concerned with speed and my commute is 30km in total. I want it to get me up and down some smaller hills on its own so I am mostly only having to pedal on flat terrain. I dont want to break the bank on this so about $1000 was what I was willing to spend.

Click to expand...

I want it to get me up and down some smaller hills on its own so I am mostly only having to pedal on flat terrain.

Click to expand...

W/ lower powered systems, this backwards. Better to rest up in the flat and pedal like Hell for serious hills.
"Lugging" the motor on a hill is a motor killer. Iron clad rule is; Never allow the climbing speed to fall below half of the top speed.

See below link to list of some good kits. This list was by a newb after extensive research on this forum and elsewhere, considering a lot of options before making my purchase, for second eBike build. Good luck!

One advantage to a front hub (particularly if you only have one bike) is that if any of the e-bike component system fails then it only takes a few minutes to swap the non-power wheel back in (if you keep it intact). ... just a thought

BTW: another Canada vendor that we are all familar with
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-kits.html?limit=all

I am in South Western Ontario Canada, so I wouldnt say that I am dealing with very big hills here. Heck our ski hill is called the Byron Bump for a reason, it takes 5 seconds to ski down it!

Click to expand...

So -- you're from my home town of London. I'm now in Toronto and have a Fat Bike with a BBS02 and a City Cruiser style bike with a geared front hub motor. Both work well....the BBS02 better at climbing and overall more fun.

Here's a place in Canada that sells the BBS02, BBSHD, Batteries, etc. plus complete bikes. It's where I got some of my stuff.
http://www.biktrix.com/collections/conversion-kits-and-accessories

Their prices are decent, they have already addressed the currency conversions, customs charges, shipping, etc., and I found their support to be excellent.