Golden Motor Build 48v and Beyond!

[icecube57]

I think i posted a topic on kamakazie animals. One actually did get caught in my spokes. He died. I took his lifeless body and gave him a respectful toss in the woods. The flies followed me for days... if i stopped more than a minute... they were on my fork like rat on a cheeto. Birds like me to. I have about 2-3 vidoes of near misses while riding.

[icecube57]

Just finished my transition to my new bike. I did some grinding on the drop outs... they had the quick release lip so i dremeled it down even and went back with a file to even it out... even after grinding its still thick as hell. I got everything assembled. I bought a handle bar riser stem to give me 2-3 inches of additional handle bar height. The stock handle bar height was unadjustable. It is so freaking comfortable. New front shimano v brakes grab and stop on a dime. Rear disk brake....168mm Pro max disc.... leaves some to be desired. They work good for slowing but it seems like abnormal force is required for them to really stop. But when both brakes are used together you really feel it and would stop very quickly in an emergency... may even throw me off the bike...The suspension is wonderful I dont feel any bumps with this fork. The rear suspension is really stiff... not in a bad way... it dampens but it doesnt have the unecessary softness like my previous bike did. Ive never rode an 24 speed bike. This 11tooth sprocket in the rear kicks ass i can pedal with the motor well into the high 20s and still feels like average pedaling. Im really satisfied with this bike. It shifts very smooth and accurate.I only wish the handlebars werent so thick. I cant put my lights on and other stuff on my handle bars. I did a test ride on my low battery pack... it seems to be faster even with my 75% discharged pack i was still hitting 30mph easy. I will do more tests tommorrow with a fresh pack. I think it may be 2-3 mph faster.

[Hyena]

You may have mentioned it earlier, but what current does your 1000w motor draw when cruising at top speed on the flat? My 500w GM only draws around 10a which is really good, but I'm tempted to upgrade to a 1000w to chase the extra speed. It'd probably also switch to a rear wheel so I can upgrade my front forks and have more options (than heavy solid steel ones)

[icecube57]

Its weird. Im in the 15-20 A when in the high 20s and after 30 it falls off dramatically to 10-15 or less especially on a slight down hill. But you need the extra amps to get to the tops speed of this motor. Its also rider dependent. Im 280lbs.

[icecube57]

Im getting some new goodies. Im going go 60 and then 72v.

I have a 48v 20AH LifePo4 pack with 16.5AH usable.

I plan to add 4 12v 4200mah pack to create a 14-16AH 12v pack to put in series with my LifePo4 pack. It should be 74 off the charger and settle down to 66 once the float charge is gone.

At 72v It should be 88 off the charger and settle to 79 after float charge is gone.



I bought 4 12v 4200mah NIMH battery packs from All-Battery. 16$ a pack plus 4$ shipping per pack. The packs are rated for 10c or 40A. I plan to parallel 4 in series with my Lifepo4 pack to get 60-66v 16H and parallel 2 and series 2 in series with my Lifepo4 pack to get 79-88v.

I bought 2 2.3A Chargers.

I bought what i believe is an Analog 36-72v 35A Crystalyte Controller with CA plug. for 96$ Lightly Used.

I bought a Direct Plug In CA. to monitor my packs since they will sit above 60v which my Watts Up cant read.

I will still use my Watts Up meter to monitor the discharge on my NIMH pack to verify their capacity and to monitor voltage during discharge. What is the save discharge voltage for 12v NIMH pack. What should the charge voltage sit at.

All of these upgrades should ship in later this week or weekend... perhaps late as monday or tuesday of next week.

[docnjoj]

Hey IC57! Nimh should not drop below 1 volt per cell. Nominal voltage is 1.2V. Fully charged around 1.44V. Use the correct type charger that monitors Dt and Dv. (Change in temp and the "knee" in the voltage curve for shut off!)
otherDoc

[icecube57]

I bought some prius packs. I bought 6. Im going to use them to make a 3s2p 21.6v nominal 25.2v charged at 13AH. Might even use the at 6s 3p for 43.2v at 6.5AH. I have those 12v 4200AH Tenergy NIMH Cells on the way also. I was doing research on my chargers.... If they cant detect DELTA voltage it shuts off after 8 hours. I was wondering should i charge at 1A or the 2.3 A. If it misses delta V I hate for it to over charge but it will cut off if its not detected. Im trying to get 3 more if the price is righI so i can have a solid 72v 15AH pack

[docnjoj]

I think IC57 that it would be good to read Powermeds posts on those Prius packs. I vaguely remember he said stuff that makes me think they don't charge like our "normal" NiMh cells! Just a thought.
otherDoc

[icecube57]

I read it and from what i remember it just misses delta V and he used cc / cv and charged up to 8.3v untill current dropped and then charged 15 min after that. I think im going to slow charge at 1A so it will take 6.5H hours to charge and if it misses the Delta V it will cut off 1-2 hours later. So I cant overcharge by much. The seller told me to worry about compression during charging but charging at low currents.. as long as you keep an eye out for heat voltage and bloating i should be able to charge safely.

[icecube57]

I finally hit the beyond. I got pissed sitting waiting for my controller to be shipped. I kinda successfully moded my 48 shenzhen to go to 72v. I replace the input caps with 100v 1000uf caps and I replaced the on on the fet buss with a 160 2xxuf cap. I had to replace the input resistor and then add more when i had power up problems. I think the voltage was to high on the regulators. I still think they are too high. A 33-34 v on 48v lifeo4. I cant seem to set my CA shut its reading to high. I have it set pretty close when its reading below 10A. At speed im getting 40A when it should be 28-29A I had my watts up and tried to make adjustments on the fly but it gets close but no cigar. I rode around my neighborhood at 66v resting 61-62 under load. I was using my 48v and a a 12v 12AH nimh booster pack. Little top heavy with that booster pack.... i really need a new bag. The streets were a little wet and i had traction issues. I was trying go up the hill in my neighborhood. My front tire was slipping. It had way more torque that at 48v alone. Once it leveled off it takes off pretty quick into the 30s. I almost lost control a few times way faster than i been on a bike. I topped out about 36 unassisted I have no straight areas where i stay. I will do more tests later if my controller feels up to it. If my CA speedo is set right. Free wheel speed is exactly 50mph. It was reading the same thing as my schwinn speedo. I had to do the CA pole and wheel size reduction to get it to read correly i think i have it set at 14 pole a 1246 wheel size. I tapped the yellow hall wire.

[icecube57]

Im assembling my Bosch packs I got in today. Grinding down the plastic so they stack and soldering on bus bars. Im trying to build a 72v 13.2AH. I only have half of that now. 72v 6.6AH Its a start. I just like the way they are stacking and they hold well together. The bus bars are easy to solder on. Once i get done creating two 36v packs Im going to solder the battery status board to the top of the pack so I can have a quick glance a pack life. Doing it more for vanity than anything.

[icecube57]

Well I just completed my first voyage at 84 volts. Well its really 80v after surface charge is gone and 74 under a 45A load. I have 6 bosch packs running 3p 2s. I plan to go to 6 p 2s .... when money gets better i just dropped a ton on a wedding ring ... ugh... all i get is a cheap band... that blows....I soldered bus bars on them connecting all three packs together. They were luke warm after i got halfway into pounding them. My GM was above warm. I could leave my hand on it without a problem but you can tell it was hot. I have the three speed controller and was wide open at 45A thats like 3300w at 74v under load. I think i will back off but there is a hell of a difference in the highest speed and the lowest speed. I need to know can someone calculate my shunt resistance or do i need to put more batteries in parallel to get the amps higher. Also the speedo on my CA worked fine on my old controller connected to the hall wiresbut on this one its connected internally and I get erratic reading. It sometimes work and sometimes dont. Im tempted to tap the hall wires on this controller also to see if i can get a stable reading. I gotta calibrate my meter. I have three pictures that i took when i was doing the reverse current trick to get the shunt reading. I think the voltage and the amps are to low I may have to try with more batteries in parallel. But the watts up gives the voltage of the battery and the amps being drawn the voltmeter is measuring the volt drop. I believe this is all the information needed to calculate the shunt value.

[dnmun]

i didn't really follow that. if you have 33V at the input to the voltage regulator, that is ok, but you need to keep track of how low the 12V rail goes when the battery voltage drops during discharge.

i estimated there is about 40mA current draw when it is running, and 27mA when idle.

so make sure the input to the 12V regulator doesn't drop below 9-10V or so, but 14V minimum is best. you can measure the output of the 12V regulator, it may be 15V in the golden motor controller, but look for that as the output and if it gets pulled up then you need to increase the input resistors. make sense?

[icecube57]

Thanks to the info but ive put that controller on the back burner. Prob sell it off for cheap. Im going to get a 36v controller I can overvolt to 48v. Atleast I could use this ample supply of 36v packs i have now. Im using my new controller now... the SOB runs warm in standby and warmer while running. i need to see if i can get some type of fan blowing in it.

[pwbset]

do i need to put more batteries in parallel to get the amps higher.

Considering a single fatpack will burst to darn near 45A paralleling more isn't going to help that issue. If you have 3p and are only getting 45A max that's a limit of your controller or motor or both. 3p fatpack will happily give you 90A+ sustained.

[icecube57]

No what im talking about is when Im doing the reverse current trick to get the shunt value of my controller. I was using one AA lithium to feed the negative current through the controller. I may need to put more in parallel to get the voltage and amps high enough to get decent measurements to calculate my shunt value for my CA. I posted pictures of the voltage and the amps that was being drawn from the the AA battery and the voltmeter shows the volt drop in mv i just need someone to try and calculate the shunt value other wise... i can get parallel more batteries to get more current going through the shunt for a more accurate reading.

[pwbset]

Oh right sorry. I just did the same thing the other night with 2 D cells in series (the same cells I'm using to trigger my SCR tab welder gate.. convenient). I was getting about 3.5A steady and then just adjusted my Rshunt CA value until they lined up. Not that great, but better than eyeballing it and guessing. I don't know how to help with the WattsUp sorry. Good luck!

[icecube57]

Well I had the watts up meter powered up through the auxilary connector. I connected a AA battery on the source side and it showed 1.47v i hooked the negative on the load side to the phase wire and the positive wire to the negative connector on the controller. Then it started drawing power. The voltage sagged to .7x volts it was drawing an amp or two and i measured the shunt wires on the CA connector and thats whats displaying on the meter. I just need a coherent formula. When i try to figure it m decimals seem off... I think its 2.5 million something but i need a seasoned professional to help me. All the information should be there on my photos i took on rapidshot on my camera.

[Hyena]

Are you still running the standard phase wires on this motor ?

I'm going to be running my 500w at ~60v/40a when my new lipos arrive in a few days, so it's good to know yours is holding up ok at a bit higher voltage. You're my canary, when your motor falls off its perch I know it's time to keep a close eye on mine

[icecube57]

Motor wires seem cool. Stock wires are coming out of the motor about 1 ft . Then I have Andersons and 10G wire going to the controller. I did that to reduce the resistance a little bit to avoid them getting to warm. The motor itself was hot to the touch but not burning. I could leave my hand on it without having to remove it. This was after 10-15 of hard WOT riding in 90-95 degree weather. i will back off the amps a little bit and go down to one of the lower speeds on my controller. I have the speed selector switch on the handlebar so i can get those extra amps when i need it.

[icecube57]

I cleaned up my wiring a bit and programmed a new CA shunt value i calculated about 2.67mohms averaged by the three readings i posted. Im still off a bit but not by much. I need to go to the store and get some D cells and solder them together so i can get a higher reverse current to get a more accurate reading when i check again. I fixed my CA speed issue. I just cut the speed sensor wire put a crush cap on it and took the other end and tapped the yellow hall wire. It now reads correcly and doesnt cut out. Keywin needs to check into that. I actually use my speed select switch today.Speed 1 sucks balls. Its limited to 10-15A and peaks at 15mph. 20 if you are on an incline. The max amp tapers down so much that once you reach 15mph it doesnt assist you. It like 0-2A at 15mph. You can pedal faster than propels you. It can be good for a soft start maybe. Past 10mph I have to go to speed 2. I think speed 2 is 30A unrestricted. Speed 3 maybe 30A with timing advanced... not sure. All i know is keywin did deliver me a controller but not quite as expected. At this higher voltage it dumps alot of heat into the motor. After a while the motor become saturated with heat there is a noticeable reduction in power. Again the motor is hot that i can leave my hand on it. It does not burn or feel uncomfortable. The batteries are still delivering 30+A at 72-74v but the motor doesnt have that punch like at the start of the ride. Methods if you read this check your pm i need the info and or cables to flash the parameters of my controller. I hope i can. This is a new series board keywin is using Also what should the lvc be on these bosch packs?

[chet]

I picked up a nice cromalloy Trec Mountain Bike frame, USA, with rusty rims for $5 at the police auction.

[icecube57]

Ok i did more testing on my controller and battery. When my voltage was sitting in the 70s the speed selector really didnt make the much of a difference. When it started getting into the 60s then it started to clearly show that speed 1 was 10A speed 2 was 20A and speed 3 was 30A. Also regen started to kick in when I entered the 60s. Its kinda nice I ended up with .75AH in regen. The controller doesnt have an LVC that i was able to hit. I think keywin didnt set one and thats why keywin included a pot to solder on and set the LVC. Also the controller ran at 33v when i tried to put 1 pack on it. It ran and it was rideable and the speed selector worked. Keywin said i couldnt go below 58v but i ran the controller at 33v. What damage can occur by running below 58v. I kno Regen was working at 33v also. Its not a full braking regen. I would say its like a 10% drag. and it kicks in when you get above 10-15mph and stops regen when you drop below it and it free wheels normally. I was getting about 5A of regen most of the time. I peaked at 10A during regen and 11.7% regen recovered. The pack discharged to 6.2AH but its not totally accurate. 5-10% variation until i test my shunt and set the CA again So maybe this is a controller with no lvc as long as the power stays high enough for the logic to stay on.

[methods]

I did not read this thread but in response to your IM>

Sounds like everything is working as it should.

You need to mod your controller to get past the 75V limit.
In a nut shell, you are going to spoof the CPU into thinking your input voltage is lower than it is by some percentage.
This will allow you to use the advanced features (like regen) at higher voltages (like 90V).

That is what you are after right?

SAM-Pilot and Knuckles both pointed out things that you would need to know in the last few pages of my "18 fet Infineon boards are here" thread.
Go check it out and let me know via PM if you have any more troubles.
I am not monitoring this thread.

-methods

[icecube57]

I ordered some torque arms from ComCycle when I recieved them they were for a a X5 rear. I needed torque arms for a Front X5. I sent them back and a few days later I got two front ones. I was going to put one on each side but then i didnt want to hack my motor wire harness. So i put them on the opposite side. I took off my loose X5 J Arm torque arm. It was less than snug fitting on the axel. Probably would have sput with the right conditions. I put my a washer and 2 new torque arms on the inside of the forks on the non wire side of my motor. They fit super snug. I had to gently tap them on with a hammer. There was a problem the way the drop outs were made I couldnt mount the torque arm parallel with the fork. They are set forward . I used the strap that came with the Clyte X5 torque arm to secure it to the fork. Is there any problems with this configuration.