Bike plans 4 summer

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Aug 03, 2017 8:17 pm

One down. One to go?
fat 1.jpg
It is so unique, I'm pretty sure like my mantra with 6-7kw. Testing phase, and it's pretty cool for what it is. I'm guessing 4kw 2wd w/ the two 18fet controllers. The wheels aren't falling off yet lol. It feels like a tractor kinda, not near as nimble (or quick) as the FS mantra, but up to maybe 20mph of rough it feels awesome. These things (at least rigid framed and low psi) are more of a cruiser and it feels awesome for that. The only thing I failed on was modifying the front hub 3spd circuit to limit ratio to rear, but with them both spinning 100% thru the 3spds @ wot it seems just fine. Weight ratio and geom for that must be just right because you can only hear the front trying to break traction. Grips and rips, so far- really cool. A cool tractor, not a rocket tryin to send you to the moon lol.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4737
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by markz » Aug 03, 2017 9:37 pm

Just pounded out a 53-65km e-ride. KT disply vs Google Maps, I dunno. Gotta do a mileage test.

Your Phat Bike would be good for what I was eye balling. Shin high grasses, making own pathways. The tree huggers might get mad at the sight of them tracks.

Its a blunt instrument, made for a specific purpose. Not an all arond type of tool.
But frock-it, you aint pedaling that beast bro. Fake pedaling yeah, and thats it. So it has its purpose, try to do slalom turns on that motherfucker though. I still aint sold........ yet.

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Aug 04, 2017 7:00 am

I am definitely sold on it as a great entry-all-around bike. Hubmotors, steel frame, no suspension, and it's just really stout. The idea is to be extremely easy to operate and maintain, and fairly cheap initially and onward. And adding Fwd to it really makes the front end 'dig in' and grip, while doubling power.
0804170719.jpg
0804170720c.jpg
0804170721e.jpg
0804170721.jpg
0804170720d.jpg
0804170719b.jpg
While testing I haven't even run thru one full charge yet, but have taken it all over town on the paths and road, and woods, and ended up jumping it a few times. I had never even checked the air pressure lol.

Here it was at 3psi front and 5psi rear lol. I put it up at 10/12psi and the front end doesn't sound like a freight train while turning anymore. The whole bike rolls alot better with less road noise and there's alot less chance of hitting the rim on stuff.

I will either consider this my build thread or make a new one. I have alot of pics and info from the build. I think I am considering it 'done' for the time being. Need to continue testing, watch dropouts, test bags, rig something for a kayak, and maybe. . .

Has anyone run their controllers with two single pink wires disconnected?
0720170829.jpg
0720170829.jpg (221.84 KiB) Viewed 481 times
The chinese reads something like
'best controller. connect jumper for best ebike ecar"
0720170825a.jpg
0720170825a.jpg (249.5 KiB) Viewed 481 times
0723171141.jpg
it looks like it connects pad 'F4' to ground
When disconnected it seems to limit speed, but I think the 3spd switch will still work. I'm hoping it keeps full amps but just brings speed range down. Or I think 10s would be awesome, except the controllers' Lvc are set for 42v - perfect for the 12s I'm running. Haven't noticed any heat at all thoug, even though I'm using it mainly in 0-50% of speed limit. Time to find a mountain to climb.

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Aug 04, 2017 7:41 pm

I think I want suspension for this bitch.
I have to ride it more but at my normal trail speed it's pretty jarring even when standing. When I say 'pretty', it's alot.
I did put the tire pressure up though. Might look into those susp seatposts too and if that's not enough maaayyybe a fork, but going slow and basic jumping is really nice with a rigid frame. I know you can't have it all, and I don't wanna lose the 'cruiser' ride character. Working on bags and a dedicated charge port right now, but it's considered done and I can put away alot of the tools and material.

Some little 10yo had the idea of mounting wheels right to the kayak and using it as it's own trailer. Thinking hard on that for quick release kayak wheels . . . . :idea:

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Aug 06, 2017 7:39 am

I found a suitable fork!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Beach-Snow- ... 2597924143

the 3" travel shouldn't change ride height geom when you figure proper preload sag. The others cost more and ride a minimum of 2 inches higher, from what I can tell, when they actually included measurements. I will need to make some plates/arms, with the front rack in mind if I want to keep it. It will likely be more 'autumn plans' ,or hell even next summer but I doubt it. I'm itching because I know how much nicer it'll be to hit the trails (or lack thereof) at >15mph.

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Aug 13, 2017 3:56 am

I am REALLY liking this bike for urban and 'crawling' the mud and trails. I'm having a great time personalizing it and do plan a build page with list of items used. It feels alot more comfortable than my mid drive klein, more like a unimog vs sprint car.

Since I didn't know '26 inch' fat bike wheels/tires have the diameter of a 29er, she is 'geared' too high imo even on 12s. So even though it'll be less watthours than 12s 16ah, I'm planning a 9s 15ah fresh battery for it. Total cost with some jumpers/parallels should be about 320.

The other thing is, these two 18fet controllers were beating up the multistar 10c pack a little, so I went with 30c. I've been looking at a few threads on modding controller LVC for 9s, and that will prob be the worst of it.

Gearing down 25% should do interesting things to the torque and efficiency curves down @ 0-25mph where I want more power. Instead of 40mph top speed I'm shooting for around 33 -34 fully charged and 30- 31mph sagged or empty.

User avatar
chas58
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 816
Joined: Mar 19, 2013 4:05 pm
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by chas58 » Aug 15, 2017 2:38 pm

I tend to agree with the fat bike gurus:
When in doubt let it out. You should not be running over 10psi and I find the optimal pressure to be between 5-8psi. The front tire can use lower pressure because there is very little weight on it most of the time, the rear tire should have enough pressure to not get pinch flats.
And I do like a suspension seat post (thudbuster).
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4737
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by markz » Aug 16, 2017 11:12 pm

Thats my next purchase, though I'd buy a cheap unit to try it out. Would go well with my springy seat.

BTW it feels like fall now, with the leaves changing color. Officially its Fall September 22, 2017.
Only thing to change up is studded tires and heated clothing.

User avatar
IanM
100 W
100 W
Posts: 142
Joined: Jun 08, 2015 3:56 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by IanM » Aug 29, 2017 6:18 am

Hey nuts, your 2wd fatty looks awesome, good job. My front motor is on its way from China now. I will be using a Q128H and 800W S12SH controller from bms battery. My control will be primarily PAS because I really like the torque simulation style PAS it seems to work well for me. I'm predicting that the PAS levels I will end up using will be like 1-2 front and 2-3 rear but I guess I won't really know until it's up and running.

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Aug 29, 2017 2:54 pm

Cool bro!
I really think the 2wd thing is a great way to balance out hub motors and obviously give best traction. You should share specifcs on how that pas works with 2 motors 2 controls. I've barely ridden in a half week but will soon. Have had the susp fork and 9s 30c 15ah battery sitting for a week and am dying to get the time to apply and ride them. I'm also just dying. But we all are and do so regardless so that's a really stupid statement.

"I'm highly lo0king forward to the new bat and susp.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4737
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by markz » Aug 29, 2017 5:09 pm

Thinking Fat Bike front fork, and install a rear motor, but the gear cover plate is frocked, so I got a disc cover plate.
This setup provides for a larger motor for a front hub application. I always like more power. Its my BMC V1 geared motor that I bought for $20, needed 1 new gear, maybe a 2nd, but I bought 3 new from Lyen. Cover plate frocked, new from EM3EV. Be nice to ride a proper geared motor. Will judge and see if same power as EM3EV mac.

User avatar
IanM
100 W
100 W
Posts: 142
Joined: Jun 08, 2015 3:56 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by IanM » Aug 30, 2017 3:14 am

nutspecial wrote:Cool bro!
I really think the 2wd thing is a great way to balance out hub motors and obviously give best traction. You should share specifcs on how that pas works with 2 motors 2 controls. I've barely ridden in a half week but will soon. Have had the susp fork and 9s 30c 15ah battery sitting for a week and am dying to get the time to apply and ride them. I'm also just dying. But we all are and do so regardless so that's a really stupid statement.

"I'm highly lo0king forward to the new bat and susp.
I will share my findings with the PAS 2wd once I have tried it for sure. Well don't die before you get to try out your new stuff and let us know how it all goes :lol:
I'm toying with the idea of making a linkage style fork to work with the front motor like what they run on mx sidecars but that's a project for later. The main advantages IMO would be that your suspension should stay supple under power and brakes at least more so than telescopic forks. Also it should be easier to incorporate clamping TA style dropouts.
Attachments
image.jpeg
Linkage fork
image.jpeg (52.64 KiB) Viewed 321 times

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Aug 30, 2017 5:14 pm

Very true - what a Rad project idea! I have no idea if my cheap coil/oil forks will give issue with the torque, but I'm gonna try it. I found some great 'motorcycle' fork turn signal clamps that should be great to fasten the upper arm/plate to, for like 2 buck a pair. Another week and I'll probably get that and the battery done . . . if I don't start the project of an 80 sqft yard/garden shed (with a full basement) I've recently concocted the idea of lol.

I just wanted to note there is an issue with the 12s 16ah 10c multistars powering these two 18fet controllers that I have no idea of settings on. Controllers motors and batts have stayed cool, but the batts are hitting lvc just off full charge when wot. From like 46 47v to 34 35v on full twist lol. ((**edit** I found out this was mainly because one controller positive battery lead became disconnected and it was trying to draw from the ignition side. . . . ))The good news is I had no idea lvc was that low on these so I might not even need to mod their lvc to keep my new 9s 15ah 30c pack healthy. (**edit, no, that didn't work. Removed LVC because it wasn't low enough to even turn on with 9s. . .) The torque will be crazy I'm think hahaha. So much for an 'easy' bike lol. Bummer is that 9-12s charges nearly twice as slow at 1c than my 24s pack of 10ah at 1c . . . . :x

Also, if I try just one controller/motor with the switches I added, the pack voltage/ ignition wire set gets kinda hot. . . Must be that backfeed to part of the 'off' controller circuitry, and the reason why not to run both 5v throttle wires together? Oh well, it's awesome always in full 2wd - will have to see if that continues when torque increases. At the point it's an issue I'd say keep full time 2wd and just run separate 3spd switches to 'gear' up/down wheels to match the other.
Last edited by nutnspecial on Sep 19, 2017 5:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4737
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by markz » Aug 30, 2017 6:23 pm

Nuts - You American eh!!!! So I see you get Sept 4 off as well as its a stat holiday. I am planning to go camping, thats why I wanna fix my MXUS 3kw motor so I can bomb around the tourist city of Banff and scare the living shit outta smile @ the tourists.

melodious
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1293
Joined: Aug 26, 2011 8:57 am
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by melodious » Aug 30, 2017 8:47 pm

These wheels look pretty utilitarian for your needs. I'd try them on my bike but I only get 3" max width. :lol: :mrgreen:



Putting them on a motored hub is another ball of wax...
Surly Ogre rigid 29er, rear 10T MAC @ 50V 25AH & 40A: 30mph road/gravel/hill machine
42" dual diagonal Eskateboard @6s & 90mm wheels
Next: eMTB @10-12s & 8"-12" pneumatic wheels; Got Strapped? d-(',')z

User avatar
IanM
100 W
100 W
Posts: 142
Joined: Jun 08, 2015 3:56 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by IanM » Aug 31, 2017 6:39 am

melodious wrote:These wheels look pretty utilitarian for your needs. I'd try them on my bike but I only get 3" max width. :lol: :mrgreen:



Putting them on a motored hub is another ball of wax...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Think I will stick to my Jumbo Jims thanks all the same.
nutspecial wrote:Very true - what a Rad project idea! I have no idea if my cheap coil/oil forks will give issue with the torque, but I'm gonna try it. I found some great 'motorcycle' fork turn signal clamps that should be great to fasten the upper arm/plate to, for like 2 buck a pair. Another week and I'll probably get that and the battery done . . . if I don't start the project of an 80 sqft yard/garden shed (with a full basement) I've recently concocted the idea of lol.

I just wanted to note there is an issue with the 12s 16ah 10c multistars powering these two 18fet controllers that I have no idea of settings on. Controllers motors and batts have stayed cool, but the batts are hitting lvc just off full charge when wot. From like 46 47v to 34 35v on full twist lol. The good news is I had no idea lvc was that low on these so I might not even need to mod their lvc to keep my new 9s 15ah 30c pack healthy. The torque will be crazy I'm think hahaha. So much for an 'easy' bike lol. Bummer is that 9-12s charges nearly twice as slow at 1c than my 24s pack of 10ah at 1c . . . . :x

Also, if I try just one controller/motor with the switches I added, the pack voltage/ ignition wire set gets kinda hot. . . Must be that backfeed to part of the 'off' controller circuitry, and the reason why not to run both 5v throttle wires together? Oh well, it's awesome always in full 2wd - will have to see if that continues when torque increases. At the point it's an issue I'd say keep full time 2wd and just run separate 3spd switches to 'gear' up/down wheels to match the other.
I am keen to hear how you go with the new pack and also how your new fork and TA setup turns out.

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Sep 19, 2017 5:13 am

Lol I like the 'shoe wheel', and hope you get your mxus going markz.

I am now done with the new 'phatgoose' on this thread. It's running sweet with the new 9s battery, and the fork/arms/rack/lights came out good, except I might want a better fork lol. I'll post a link to the build thread when I get a chance to write it up in the coming weeks. (which you already know about IanM- thanks for your input!)

- - - - - - - - -
Anyway, I can't believe how great this summer was (3 more days!). So busy yet so much more yet to take care of for the fall, maybe into winter . . . .
Never even started on the second bike; Although now I'm thinking to keep the lighter Klein XC style bike anyway, and modify it to be more mud friendly and maintenance free. Going from a 75lb to a 100lb bike makes a world of difference for some obstacles and stuff you can't ride over. And there is still just no comparison to that 6/7kw bht and full suspension craziness :twisted: .

The Mongoose Hitch is an awesome cruizer, and has some good torque running 2wd 3-4kw, but even if it had the power of the Klein it would probably be even more dangerous without a full suspension, and having those bouncy ass tractor tires lol. Two completely different bikes was the goal, and it runs thru some pretty deep mud (and water), plus snow should be fun 8) . . .

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Oct 13, 2017 1:40 am

Maybe for winter, or summer, I'm thinking not to ditch the Klein Mantra, but to redo the swingarm (URT) extension for a wider better made dual FW hub (too much wheel bearing maintenance currently), that sits back far enough to run a shinko or a 3" x 24" knobby. The eastgem bike can wait- it's hanging as wall candy for now 8)

Making the fat bike really makes me appreciate my XC bike I've been riding for 20yrs . . . including that 'little E power' for the last 2. :lol:

User avatar
nutnspecial
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mar 03, 2015 10:19 pm
Location: PA

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by nutnspecial » Dec 06, 2017 2:51 am

I'm thinking not to ditch the Klein Mantra, but to redo the swingarm (URT) extension for a wider better made dual FW hub (too much wheel bearing maintenance currently), that sits back far enough to run a shinko or a 3" x 24" knobby
With that phatgoose running admirably on 9s, it's a really nice cruiser/cargo/offroader. I really need to make a vid of the cruiser tracktor in action.
But the klein is still way lighter, more powerful, and efficient. Which is more fun in more conditions. The only downside to the XC vs FAT is mud flotation/cleaning and drive maintenance for dirt/water, so it's just not great in winter or swampy shite. I'm almost positive I won't like the eastgem heavier steel build as much either. Weight is so much key while we're still so limited physics/science/chemistry-wise.

So it's in the works. I have a New (to me) complete >yr2000 Mantra enroute with that newer and supposedly stronger URT design. It's also a large VS a small which prob will suit my 6ft height better lol.
I will figure a way to bracket or extend the swingarm/dropouts even further back for better power control, and basically redo everything better including more favorable wheel dishing, heavier hub, more tire clearance etc. Yaaah.

Might try to sell the old frame, or just the 'Chameleon' painted 1998 fuselage.
$_1.JPG
$_1.JPG (36.06 KiB) Viewed 48 times
. . . . . Btw 'FALL' bike plans involved picking up an old original 350w mid-direct drive Izip, refreshing it, and adding a 10s pack. Neat little started bike I then passed on to a friend.

markz
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4737
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Bike plans 4 summer

Post by markz » Dec 06, 2017 7:52 pm

Summer, cant wait!
Thats Canada 4 ya!

Post Reply