Here is my nearly completed cruiser trike

Here is my nearly complete cruiser e-trike. This e-trike was built to be ridden on the Playa (dry lake bed) at Burning Man, where the speed limit is 5 mph. The trike was constructed from a workman industrial trike, a Trek and a Giant mountain bike. I needed a wide track and long wheel base for stability, so I built a new frame section and reinforcement that resulted in a 4 foot wide, 8 foot long footprint. The seats are 4 feet above the ground, which puts the riders eye level about 7 feet above ground.
The rear wheels ride on 7/8” axles inside pillow blocks mounted to the 3” frame section. A coaster brake freewheel, transfers pedal power to one rear wheel. A caliper style brake is attached to the front. A 48 volt 750 watt BLDC hub motor provides power at the front forks. Two torque arms, one commercial, one I fabricated from ¼” steel plate, hold the front wheel in place and prevent the axle from spinning in the drop outs. The batteries are 4, 18ah SLA’s in a bag with the controller at mid-frame.

The trike was built to carry two riders, a Honda EU1000 generator, a Bimini top and about a thousand LEDS to light it up at night. The fully loaded capacity of the vehicle is about 875 pounds. The lower frame was fabricated from 1”x3” 18ga Rectangular steel tube; the superstructure uses 1”x2” 18ga Rectangular steel tube with additional frame reinforcement using 1” round steel tube. The seat was made with 3” thick dense foam from a boat upholstery shop. This is not a light weight; total empty weight without generator or riders is 230 pounds.

Stability given the height is very good, although it is obvious that it was not built to take fast turns or corner quickly. Testing it in our hilly neighborhood gave uphill speeds of about 10 mph with 18mph on flats. But bear in mind this trike will only see speeds no greater than 10 mph with 5 mph the general rule.

So I am looking for some advice. I want to add a reverse switch. I was thinking about using a 20 amp DPDT switch mounted near the handle bars to switch two phase wires of the hub motor. I would have to run 8 feet of 12ga wire to do so. The controller did not have an option for a reverse switch. I am a novice with electrical. Would you use a relay instead? Can anyone recommend a relay setup that I could use?

I also want to carry a 48 volt, 4 amp charger to plug into the generator to extend the range. I would like to charge while operating the trike. Does anyone know if this would present any problems? Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.

Nice work!

Switching high amp current is always a problem. Good news is that when you 'switch' to reverse you should be stopped so there should be NO current flowing in the phase wires. Since you are running 'lots of LEDs" I am guessing you already have a source of 12 DC power. I would also be concerned with the idea of having two phase wires a great deal longer than the third ... I suspect it could upset the phase timing a bit. Maybe it is a needless concern by why chance it? Seems like putting in a couple of relays to keep from lengthening the phase wires is a no brainer.

I would try something like this:
[strike]http://www.ebay.com/itm/361648131490[/strike] oops that was a AC relay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122019626924 DC Relay
I have no experience with them but they are cheap enough that if they do not work then you have not lost much.

There are some controllers that have a built in reverse function.

Hank said:

Testing it in our hilly neighborhood gave uphill speeds of about 10 mph with 18mph on flats. But bear in mind this trike will only see speeds no greater than 10 mph with 5 mph the general rule.

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You might want to do some local pre-testing on playa-like flat surfaces (to simulate that rolling resistance) at the slow speeds, with a full load, riding it the way you'll ride it there. It's not uncommon for setups that work fine at the higher speeds to overheat and even fail at lower speeds and higher loads, because each motor has it's own efficiency curve that makes more heat at some speed ranges than others--there's a range where it's ideal for it, and outside of that, under the same load at the same voltage, it gets increasingly less efficient, and hotter, more quickly.

See the http://ebikes.ca/simulator for more on how that works, and play around with it to see what I mean.

It might be better to have the motor in a smaller diameter wheel, so that it's efficient speed at the voltage you're running it at is also the speed you want to go, or close to it.

If you end up having to go to a smaller wheel (if there actually is overheating at the speeds you need to go with a full load), you can still use the same fork and all, and just add brake studs or pivot holes at the appropriate place on the fork. At worst if you had to do a 20" wheel, you'd lose 3" or so of front end height, which you could fix by lengthening the fork legs, perhaps by simply welding another fork (minus steerer tube) to the existing one, either over the tubing or behind the existing fork.



FWIW, the trike reminds me of some of the versions of my SB Cruiser that I've gone thru to get where it is now. See the link in my signature.

I want to add a reverse switch.

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First, check the controller--it probably already has the function, even if the wires aren't run outside the case yet. Open it up and post clear pics of the markings on the board inside. Usually somewhere is at least one or two rows of pads to solder wires to, which will have wires on only some of them. If it's a similar controller to others that we've seen, we can make a guess as to which pads to add wires to to connect for reverse.

Then any little bitty spst switch will work--evena momentary switch (I use the "horn" button off some cheap ebike kit part for SB Cruiser's reverse switch; I just hold it down until done reversing; as soon as I let go, then come to a complete stop, it switches back to forward. Note that reverse functions typically require coming to a complete stop to allow them to engage--otherwise it just cuts all power to the motor system until you do stop).

I was thinking about using a 20 amp DPDT switch mounted near the handle bars to switch two phase wires of the hub motor.

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Unless it is sensorless, you also have to switch at least two of the hall wires as well. Otherwise even if it spins the right direction it'll be the wrong timing and you may overheat the controller and/or motor and damage (or destroy) one or both.

If it is sensorless, then it might work.

However, you'll probably need a lot more than 20A contacts--the phase currents are usually several times what the battery currents are, especially under heavy loads (like starting up from a stop, or any kind of uphill slope).

Also needs to be break-before-make type relay or switch (make-before-break will short across the phases).

If you attempt to switch directions while in motion, it's possible the changes in current could damage the controller.

If you attempt to switch while the motor is powered/under load, it's possible the arcing in the switch could weld the contacts together, unless the switch or relay is rated for the voltage and current involved.

The extra wire length may create problems because of it's inductance; you'd have to test it to find out. If you had the same extra wire in all the phases (not just the ones being switched) then it wouldn't matter other than for the extra resistance (and power loss) it would cause. I don't know if it would actually cause a problem or not; never tried such drastically different phase wire lengths before.

Technically you'd be switching AC but I would use a switch rated for DC V and A of the levels you need, as it would be more rugged (but larger and more expensive).

Solar power system relays or switches are probably your best bet for easy-to-find stuff.




Charging while riding shouldn't be a problem; in fact that will probably extend the life of the SLA if you keep them topped off as much as possible. Just keep in mind that the SLA will probably only give you half (or less) of their capacity, if you run them from full to empty; doing this a lot will greatly decrease their lifespan. If you're charging while running it'll help prevent that, depending on how quickly you run the batteries down.

The only issue I can see is that if the batteries had a problem or became disconnected from the system (like one of their series connections came loose), but the charger was still connected to the controller, the load on the charger might be high enough to damage it if it doesn't have protection against that sort of thing.


There's at least a few people here runnign their bikes/trikes/etc off solar arrays that charge while riding, and I don't think any of them have had that kind of problem so far.

You desert guys build strange bikes...<wink>

It's the heat...it melts our brainz.

Melted mine for 20 years...i do miss December bbq's. At least being warmer than Minnesnowta.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll open the controller tomorrow and check, it would be nice to run a simple switch. I wish I had a smaller wheel, but I don't, I am testing it out at slow speeds with a load, so far so good. I am a little worried about heat with the 26" wheel, slow speeds and high weight. I learned the hard way to put torque arms on the forks... I'll be putting the top on it this weekend and installing lights. I checked out your SB Cruiser thread. Wow, the cool factor is high with that creation.

Though it could overheat because of the heavy load and low speeds,, I betcha you stop to talk, gawk, or drink often enough for the motor to cool. If you cant put your hand on the motor for half a second, stop to let it cool. You can pour water on it, or mist it, to speed up cooling it. Carry a squirt bottle for yourself, and the motor.

My first impression was WTF? till you mentioned its a burning man trike. It will look better when its decorated I'm sure.

If it does give you any problems this year, there is a company that makes a low speed trike kit you will see plenty of at the burn. The Lower rpm motor is better suited for low speed combined with heavy loads, and it comes with a reverse switch.

Should be no problems with running the charger on the generator, so you can keep the battery small and cheap.

Here are photos of the controller board.

Unfortunately since none of the markings/labelling can be seen in those pics, you'll have to do closeups of the areas that have markings; usually the ones where wires already are installed are where the other unused pads would be. Or type up a list of all the pads, including the ones with wires and note down where those wires actually go, so you can eliminate what's already wired up and working, and just sort out what's not yet.

A pic of the label would be useful too--you might find a match elsewhere on ES with the info you need.

There's a square black chip on there; if you post the markings on it it might match those on some other controller, which generally means the other markings on teh board itself would correspond to the various functions.

There's so many different kinds and clones of clones of clones that there's no certainty until you try out whatever wiring is needed, but it's worth a shot.

If you have to you could simply add a wire to every non-ground non-5v pad on the board, and run them out of the controller, marking each with it's pad label. Then with it connected to the motor and battery/etc, wheel off-ground on the trike, experiment with connecting each wire (via a 1kohm resistor to prevent smoke, just in case) to ground, one at a time, while testing how the motor responds to throttle and brake. Then repeat for connecting each (via resistor) to 5v.


FWIW, there's a few threads around that have lists of controller markings, hard to find in a search though you might look up the Greentime and Hua Tong threads, and the old Infineon threads--some of those have pad info in various posts. Some controllers I've opened up are:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68501&hilit=controller*
post with pad labels/functions https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68501&hilit=controller%2A#p1037209 it does have a reverse function I use frequently on the trike

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21830&hilit=controller* (this didnt' appear to have a reverse function)

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16740&hilit=controller* (also didn't have a reverse function)



As for not having a smaller wheel to put the motor in (should it be necessary), that's really easy to fix. You can go to goodwill or other thrift stores and find a good doublewall aluminum rimmed wheel (with eyelets if you can) on a cheap bike, and disassemble the wheel to get the rim off, (or buy a used or new rim or wheel from a bike shop, or online) then go to places like http://ebikes.ca and use their spoke calculator page to find all the measurements you need to order the spokes to rebuild the wheel with the smaller rim.

It'll probably be a much stronger wheel when you're done just becuase it'll have the right spoke size for it and a good rim (whereas from the manufacturers these hubmotor wheels generally have spokes too thick for the rims they're on, so they can't be tensioned correctly and can break the wheels or just come apart).

If you're not confident of your wheelbuilding, you're about a couple hundred miles from me, depending on where exactly you are in Havasu, so you could bring the bits down here and I could rebuild it for you on one of my days off of work, once you get all the parts.

Here are some close ups.

Keep in mind I don't know what any of them are for sure, but some speculation, leaving blank any I haven't a guess for. I've also included the ones that ahve wires attached, for those I could see the labelling for. I used a ? for speculative functions, and others are probably the actual function.

If you like you could solder wires to each of the unwired pads (except for 5v, VCC, P+, or 60V, run them out of the controller with all the others, and then see what they do when connected to ground.

6/12-- 60 / 120 degree setting for hall sensors.
F3--
F2--
F1--
XX--

H+--5v for motor hall sensors
W--W-phase hall sensor input
V--V-phase hall sensor input
U--U-phase hall sensor input
GND--ground for motor hall sensors

P---Main battery power ground
P+--Main battery power positive

60V--jumper to allow 60v LVC for a "72v" pack, (vs a lower voltage battery with lower LVC)

VCC--5v for the other four wires above it

DC--
ZL--
5v--
4.3V--power for throttle
SD--throttle signal
GND--ground for throttle
XS--

GND--ground for options below
SH--speed high?
SL--speed low?
DS--reverse?

Q-- Programming or display connector?
F4-- Programming or display connector?
F5-- Programming or display connector?
F6-- Programming or display connector?
A3-- Programming or display connector?

I will check that out today. Thanks for providing the info. Here are a couple of pics with the lights and top installed. I took it out for about a twenty mile ride. Part of the ride covered a section with a 500 foot uphill elevation change over 4 miles. I was running the generator the entire ride. When I got back home the battery was almost fully charged, the motor was hot to the touch but the outside temp that day was 114 degrees. At this point I'll keep the 26" wheel, although a smaller wheel would definitely be better to keep the RPM's in the motor's best speed zone.

I like the lights. Needs more. Lots more. :lol:

I wish I could use multicolored stuff like that here in Phoenix/valley area, but I've seen regular cyclists taken off the road by police because of nonstandard light colors (one gal because she had little dim LED Christmas light strings on her bike---AT CHRISTMAS). So I stick to the regular vehicular light colors and locations, and I have no problems with anyone over that. (even with the bright white downlighting front and rear, cuz the lights themselves are not visible from the rear anymore than someone's license-plate light is--but they light up the bike/trike and the road around me making me more visible).



Regarding the motor heat--were you riding at playa speeds on the uphill portions? If you were, then the motor will probably be ok. If you were going significantly faster than you will on the playa, you might want to retry the ride at playa speeds, to be sure it'll be alright at the lower speeds.

The higher speeds present more of an aerodynamic load, so the motor is more heavily loaded all the time, but the lower speeds on uphills are less efficient so can actually get hotter.

Since the playa is probably all flat it's not a big deal, but it'll probably have higher rolling resistance than the average pavement, from the reports we've had of others building bikes/trikes for that (many seem to like using fat tires because of that).

The uphill speeds were at playa speeds, the majority of the time. A few times I went a little faster to see how much torque it had pulling the weight, it did well. As far as a reverse pin on the board goes, I checked all of them against ground, nothing made it reverse. Oh well, I can get along without it, just would have been nice to have it. As far as the lights go, I've installed the programmable lights, the fixed led's and the rotating multi-color disco ball are next.

Be sure to post lots of pics (and get some of it on the playa too ).

Would be interesting to see closer pics of the frame in ways that show how it's laid out / built, including the steering, for those of us crazy enough to build stuff like this.

Whatever happened with this trike?

Well I made a couple of changes. The lead acid batteries are gone. I also added a second 48v 750 watt motor for hills. I now have one 48v 20ah lithium for the rear motor, and one 52v 20ah lithium for the front hub motor (see pictures). The lead acid batteries lasted about 6 months before they started to get weak. I wasn't happy about the uphill speed and heat generated with the front hub motor. I was only doing about 5-8 mph up steep hills and generating lots of heat in the hub motor and controller. Now I am running two throttles, one thumb and one twist throttle on the right handle bar. It actually works pretty well, I start out with the rear motor and roll on the front motor, gradually releasing the rear until up to speed. On hills I use both motors and easily get up any long or steep hill. With both motors going, neither one heats up much. I already wore out the front tire and had to replace it after about 250 miles. I'm now using this trike to get around town more than I use a car. No problem with visibility, no problem with vehicles seeing me or sharing the road. People tend to slow down, gawk and take pictures.

Hank said:

The lead acid batteries are gone.

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I found early on that SLA sucks--but if it's what you have, might as well use it, so I did, cuz I could get them free (used, from powerchairs and UPS units). Once I started getting better batteries, I could appreciate how much better they could be than the SLA.

I also added a second 48v 750 watt motor for hills.

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2WD definitely helps with acceleration and hill climbing, hauling cargo, etc.

I wasn't happy about the uphill speed and heat generated with the front hub motor. I was only doing about 5-8 mph up steep hills and generating lots of heat in the hub motor and controller.

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That's teh kind of thing I was talking about with using smaller diameter wheels, etc. (that basically gears down teh motor); they help with the loading of the motor when you have to go slow under a load. But if the 2WD fixes it, then no worries there (and the larger wheels roll better/smoother).

I already wore out the front tire and had to replace it after about 250 miles.

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Is it wearing from braking, or acceleration? If the former, then adding rear brakes (if you don't have any) will help. If the latter, then ensuring you don't apply enough power to cause wheelspin at startup will help.

Sometimes it's neither of those, and is instead scrubbing in turns, or scrubbing of the tire from wheelslip/spin on non-sticky pavement (especially if there's flinty dirt or sand on it, common here in AZ even in big cities).

I'm now using this trike to get around town more than I use a car. No problem with visibility, no problem with vehicles seeing me or sharing the road. People tend to slow down, gawk and take pictures.

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Yeah--I get that, too. :lol:

Though since traffic here is heavier and probably faster than it is there, I do get a few here and there that aren't very nice. :/

Nice end results! Great vehicle for a place like Quartzite. Well done!

Toying with the idea of building something like that, just for the grins of the build. For me it would be lower and longer, more like AW's trike but with the little cheap ass harbor freight generator.

Kinda lost interest in owning really big batteries. So renewed interest in something solar eventually, but for now run infinitely on a tiny generator.

Thanks AW, The front tire pulling a heavy load on gritty road surfaces probably had a lot to do with the wear. It was a knobby as well, I needed that for Burning Man. I went to a wider tire with street tread. It didn't spin much when I had the lead acid batteries up front, but now the front is lighter and it does spin more easily. Using both of the motors for starts and hills really makes riding here a lot more enjoyable. Lake Havasu is all hills. All of the streets follow the terrain and meander around washes. So nothing is straight and everything is up and down hill. I use the front motor to cruise and when I start to lose speed going up hill I hit the rear motor and maintain.

Thanks Dogman, Right now I run the generator to charge the batteries, either while riding or when stopped after about 15 - 20 miles. I tried to make it run exclusively on the generator using a 48v 20 amp Meanwell power supply plugged in to the generator. It worked perfect on flat stretches, but when I started to climb and the motor demanded more amps, it sent the honda 1000 into overload. I trimmed the voltage down as far as I could, but it still overloads the generator when demand exceeds the ability of the generator to supply amps. If I had bought a 12-13 amp power supply it would have worked better. If I had a honda 2000 generator, it would solve the problem, but I only have the 1000. So, I'd look at your amperage supply and demand closely. I'm not all that adept with electrical, but I wish there was a way to limit amperage demand from the power supply that I have.

Hank said:

I'm not all that adept with electrical, but I wish there was a way to limit amperage demand from the power supply that I have.

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Which meanwell model is it? Some of them have adjustments inside, and some that don't can have them added (there's a few threads about modding certain models).

FWIW, I did mean run with a generator charging a modest size battery, but still thinking in terms of 1000 watt hours. For just the reason you mentioned, so I could draw 2000w when needed on a hill, but then cruise a long flat at more like 300w.

I make lots of plans, then end up spending the cash I have on other things. Right now I lack the right charger to make the series hybrid with my cheapo generator.

You have the ideal generator though, the honda 1000.

The power supply is the Meanwell RSP 1000-48. It is somewhat programmable, it also has a voltage adjustment pot. It worked on flat ground but it would overload the generator going up a hill. I had to set the voltage on the low side for it to work. I wanted to use it to directly power the hub motor.