Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by amberwolf » Dec 05, 2017 2:24 pm

Screw on freewheels have threads on the inner circumference.

Cassettes have splines there.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Drunkskunk » Dec 05, 2017 2:58 pm

I snagged this image from one of Zukster's posts https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=54297
This is a CST hub, a freewheel hub just has some threads that stick out 1/2" or so.

Image
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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Buk___ » Dec 05, 2017 3:09 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 2:24 pm
Screw on freewheels have threads on the inner circumference.

Cassettes have splines there.
Unfortunately, its not always possible to see the threads in the pictures; and some threaded freewheels have what look distinctly like "splines" when seen from the front:

eg. Image

It's only if they also have a rear view it becomes clear:Image
Last edited by Buk___ on Dec 05, 2017 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Buk___ » Dec 05, 2017 3:11 pm

Drunkskunk wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 2:58 pm
I snagged this image ...
Thanks, but its the cog set (freewheel vs cassette) itself I'm having trouble identifying, from the small online pics; rather than the spline/thread on the hub.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by docw009 » Dec 05, 2017 7:02 pm

It's either a cassette or a freewheel, in my opinion. Buy it from a bicycle shop and they know what to call it.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by MadRhino » Dec 05, 2017 7:18 pm

Even if you can’t see the thread inside the freewheel, you can see that the spline is short and has no free hub cassette mount insered into it. The splined part in a freewheel, is only to insert a tool to unscrew the whole freewheel assembly. For this reason it is locked on the freewheel, while the retainer screw of a freehub is visibly a screw.
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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Buk___ » Dec 05, 2017 9:17 pm

docw009 wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 7:02 pm
It's either a cassette or a freewheel, in my opinion. Buy it from a bicycle shop and they know what to call it.
Do you know of any (UK) BS that sells an 11-28T screw-on freewheel?

If so, link name/address please.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Buk___ » Dec 05, 2017 9:31 pm

MadRhino wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 7:18 pm
Even if you can’t see the thread inside the freewheel, you can see that the spline is short and has no free hub cassette mount insered into it. The splined part in a freewheel, is only to insert a tool to unscrew the whole freewheel assembly. For this reason it is locked on the freewheel, while the retainer screw of a freehub is visibly a screw.
Hm. This Image
is described as "Shimano Unisex 7 Speed Cassette".


I'm not sure what sex has to do with this, but nothing in that image, nor the rest of the page https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shimano-7-Spee ... wheel&th=1 stands out as being either one thing, nor the other?

It looks like a freewheel, but is described as a cassette.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by MadRhino » Dec 05, 2017 9:39 pm

It is a most common Shimano freewheel.
It’s been called a cassette by mistake in this add.

You might not find a freewheel with a 11t cog, but it can be done. Most would use a larger chain ring instead.
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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by docw009 » Dec 05, 2017 9:47 pm

Buk___ wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 9:17 pm
docw009 wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 7:02 pm
It's either a cassette or a freewheel, in my opinion. Buy it from a bicycle shop and they know what to call it.
Do you know of any (UK) BS that sells an 11-28T screw-on freewheel?

If so, link name/address please.
I'm in the USA, but I believe you have to go with the DNP Epochs for 11T. I;ve picked up two Epoch 11-34T's for my 20" folders.
https://www.amazon.com/DNP-Epoch-Freewh ... B007A8RPUS

OK. How about this? If you're near the seller (address is there) maybe you go there and skip the ebay/paypay surcharges,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DNP-Epoch-Fr ... SwTA9X3TDK

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by amberwolf » Dec 06, 2017 1:46 am

Buk___ wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 3:09 pm
Unfortunately, its not always possible to see the threads in the pictures;
Then to be certain before you buy, your only option in those cases is to contact the seller and have them post or send you pictures that clarify which it is.

(because you can't trust them to know which it is)

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by x.l.r.8 » Dec 06, 2017 3:52 am

http://www.hammer-ebikes.com/
there in the UK and sell them
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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Chalo » Dec 06, 2017 5:43 am

Do you see how the freewheel in the link of the top post has a recessed end with the remover spline down inside it? That's characteristic of a freewheel. Cassettes have a lockring on the outside of all the sprockets, and the spline is right at the outer surface.
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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Buk___ » Dec 06, 2017 5:59 am

Chalo wrote:
Dec 06, 2017 5:43 am
Do you see how the freewheel in the link of the top post has a recessed end with the remover spline down inside it? That's characteristic of a freewheel. Cassettes have a lockring on the outside of all the sprockets, and the spline is right at the outer surface.
Thank you. That helps.

It's not always easy to detect the recessing if the camera is aimed straight down the hole, but often the cassette lock ring has the word "lock" with a CW arrow, which is easy to distinguish.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Buk___ » Dec 06, 2017 6:31 am

MadRhino wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 9:39 pm
You might not find a freewheel with a 11t cog, but it can be done. Most would use a larger chain ring instead.
When I decided to buy a new freewheel rather than reuse my existing one, I looked around here and found reference to 11-28/32/34T freewheels and went looking for one.

What I found was that there seems to be only one supplier of 11-xxT freewheel, DNP, and they don't have a great reputation quality-wise; but they seem to be the only game in town. Which is kind of weird and annoying.

A standard 14-28T DNP retails for £8-£10, the 11-28T DNP for £25-£35. The only reason I can see, is that being the only choice, they can charge a hefty premium. Which makes me wonder why the other Chinese suppliers haven't tried to cash in on the premium by undercutting them?

I also read a few threads about people using larger (50/52T) chainrings; but they all seem to create problems setting up the front derailleur because the jump between stock 34T middle ring is so large.

For now, I'll probably buy the cheapest stock 14-28T Shimano I can find and think about whether I need a bigger range once I've actually tried the machine out.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by docw009 » Dec 06, 2017 8:25 am

Buk___ wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 9:17 pm

Do you know of any (UK) BS that sells an 11-28T screw-on freewheel?

If so, link name/address please.
.

De nada.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Buk___ » Dec 06, 2017 9:50 am

docw009 wrote:
Dec 06, 2017 8:25 am
Buk___ wrote:
Dec 05, 2017 9:17 pm

Do you know of any (UK) BS that sells an 11-28T screw-on freewheel?

If so, link name/address please.
.

De nada.
Hm. Apparently, that literally translates as "there's nothing to be thankful about"; but can also mean "You're welcome". The only interpretation I can muster for its use in the quoted context, is sarcasm.

Given you felt it was important enough to post, I guess it would only be polite to respond.

Whilst Hammer EBikes is indeed in the UK, there are bike shops in France and Belgium that are closer to me than they. And, exploring their (own) website, the only mention of the 11-28T freewheel I can find, is as a £25 option on their £650 kit. As far as I can find there is no separate listing.

Of course, I could buy it from their Ebay listing for £35, but if I'm buying from Ebay, then I might as well get it from a different supplier (even if non-UK) that is cheaper, given that:

a) I'm not going to travel to Nottingham to inspect it.
b) I know the DNP 11-28T is a freewheel not cassette, so your reasoning for suggesting I use an LBS goes out the window.

So, at this time, as I'm not even sure that I actually want/need to purchase an 11-28T freewheel, perhaps that will explain why I'm not immediately following your advice.

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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by MadRhino » Dec 06, 2017 12:19 pm

When you ride with a motor, you will not use so many gears anymore. The more the power and speed of the bike, the less you need the gears.

Then, hub motors are hard on freewheels. I mean, it does freewheel more often and much faster, and also gets heat shedding off the motor.

For those reasons I buy the best freewheels, and use a single that is leaving some space to better fit a bigger motor. Yet, even those riding low power PAS are usually simplifying their drive train pretty soon.
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Re: Visually distinguishing screw-on freewheels from "cassette freewheels"?

Post by Buk___ » Dec 06, 2017 1:31 pm

MadRhino wrote:
Dec 06, 2017 12:19 pm
Yet, even those riding low power PAS are usually simplifying their drive train pretty soon.
It's my intent that I should pedal most of the time, at least until my body can no longer sustain it. Whether that will pan out in reality time will tell.

I also want the bike to be usable -- I mean really, properly usable, without assist -- hence I've chosen the most powerful geared hub I could find. Little extra weight (<4kg + 2kg batteries + 0.5kg controller) and little extra drag. Again, my intent is that I should ride out unassisted and reserve the batteries for bringing me home, especially the morale breaking last 1k to my home.

Playing with a gear calculator shows that at my expected top speed of ~22mph, with my current top gearing of 42/14T, would need to be pedalling at 90+ cadence, and I cannot achieve, let alone sustain that; hence looking for a higher range solution. Upping the front to 44 should be simple, and combining that with 11 or 12T would drop the required cadence to 60 or so.

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