Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
cwah
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4534
Joined: Jul 24, 2011 5:42 am
Location: Between paris and london

Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by cwah » Dec 18, 2017 11:33 am

Hello,

Tired of doing solding with my bullet connector, I've replaced all of them with Powerpole 45A ones. I thought that crimping is a much neater and time saver option.

However, there is a sparkle everytime I connect them to my battery (60v), and after one month, a chunk of my connector was gone!!
Image

I had a 1h30 walk of shame last night with my bike.

Anyone know what I can do about that? I know about precharge resistor but I'm not fan of having to connect twice my bike before I can go

Have I bought the wrong connectors? With the bullets at least the sparkle wouldn't destroy the connector

Chiwah
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

mark5
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1116
Joined: Dec 28, 2011 9:26 pm
Location: USA

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by mark5 » Dec 18, 2017 1:29 pm

Make a cellman-type of Anderson precharge connector where the precharge Anderson is offset slightly forward from the other two power connectors so it contacts first. There's a picture of one here somewhere if you look hard enough.

User avatar
Alan B
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 7385
Joined: Sep 11, 2010 7:43 am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, USA
Contact:

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by Alan B » Dec 18, 2017 1:59 pm

On one ebike I used PowerPole 45's and PowerPole 75's. I plugged in the 45's first. There was a resistor on that circuit. Then I plugged on the 75's. No sparks. Just 2 plugs, in the right order. Would work fine with two 45's as well.

They do have an earlier connecting pin for grounding that can be used, as mentioned.

flat tire
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 823
Joined: Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by flat tire » Dec 18, 2017 2:19 pm

Yes you got the wrong connector. The powerpole 45s are total and complete garbage for any rating over a few amps. The inrush to the caps on connection will absolutely destroy them as you found out. Instead look for the SB50 connectors. I run those and they are very solid. You may need to file down the connector after a while if you have particularly hard live connects.

cwah
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4534
Joined: Jul 24, 2011 5:42 am
Location: Between paris and london

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by cwah » Dec 18, 2017 3:10 pm

Alan B wrote:
Dec 18, 2017 1:59 pm
On one ebike I used PowerPole 45's and PowerPole 75's. I plugged in the 45's first. There was a resistor on that circuit. Then I plugged on the 75's. No sparks. Just 2 plugs, in the right order. Would work fine with two 45's as well.

They do have an earlier connecting pin for grounding that can be used, as mentioned.

Where can I find a version with grounding?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

cwah
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4534
Joined: Jul 24, 2011 5:42 am
Location: Between paris and london

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by cwah » Dec 18, 2017 3:11 pm

flat tire wrote:
Dec 18, 2017 2:19 pm
Yes you got the wrong connector. The powerpole 45s are total and complete garbage for any rating over a few amps. The inrush to the caps on connection will absolutely destroy them as you found out. Instead look for the SB50 connectors. I run those and they are very solid. You may need to file down the connector after a while if you have particularly hard live connects.
I just bought the whole kit 1 month ago with the pp45 crimper..... do I bin it?

And maybe this works better?
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/xt90-s-anti ... ?wrh_pdp=1
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

flat tire
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 823
Joined: Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by flat tire » Dec 18, 2017 3:21 pm

I've never used the anti spark XT90s but the XT90 connector is popular and will definitely work.

User avatar
rojitor
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1061
Joined: Mar 23, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: vigo spain

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by rojitor » Dec 18, 2017 3:46 pm

As soon as they get close they arc. If they separate a little while riding they also arc. I use breakers and shrink tube so they never arc and last for years. I didn't burn any pp45 for ages.
Xt90 is another option...

ScooterMan101
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1345
Joined: Oct 06, 2012 4:45 pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by ScooterMan101 » Dec 18, 2017 7:00 pm

Is the spark happening when you plug the battery pack into the controller ?
or
Do you have more than one Lipo pack that you connect together ?

I am now using XT 90s , on the battery harness from the batteries to the controller. ( the s is for the anti-spark version of the XT 90 They have some green on the yellow connector the all yellow ones are not the anti spark ones )
and
I also make sure the on/off switch is in the off position before connecting batteries together and/or the harness to the controller.


You can buy the XT 90s connectors other places as well as H.K.
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Dec 19, 2017 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

Oh how I wish today for no more rain
Oh how I wish to ride again
Once and for all
And all for once
Cyclist my name forevermore

User avatar
Alan B
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 7385
Joined: Sep 11, 2010 7:43 am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, USA
Contact:

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by Alan B » Dec 18, 2017 7:24 pm

pp45's are fine connectors, but the current surges are damaging them. You need to work around that.

SB50's use the same pins as PP75's, and the same crimper.

EM3EV sets up the powerpoles to stage with a resistor, if you want to use that technique.

markz
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5244
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by markz » Dec 18, 2017 8:21 pm

I use regular XT90 connectors with no issue with the sparkle. I check inside the connector, not even black marks on the casing.

Oh and Hobbyking sells XT90AS the AS stands for Anti Spark.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/xt90-s-anti ... s-bag.html

User avatar
Alan B
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 7385
Joined: Sep 11, 2010 7:43 am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, USA
Contact:

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by Alan B » Dec 19, 2017 2:11 am

The amount of damage in the connector is a function of the voltage and the capacitance. If you have enough of either or both it will damage connectors unless they have anti-spark resistors. If you have enough voltage and capacitance it will burn out the anti-spark resistors, too. They have a limit on what they can handle.

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6663
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by Chalo » Dec 19, 2017 2:38 am

Powepoles are cheap and easy to install or replace, and they seem to be designed to take a lot of spark erosion at the tip where they make initial contact and then move the electrical path to a different area of the terminal when they're fully plugged in.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 25055
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by amberwolf » Dec 19, 2017 3:27 am

They *are* specifically designed for that, according to information from Anderson. ;)

But to save the wear and tear, precharge resistors are still recommended.



BTW, for those having problems with their PP45 contacts, keep in mind there are multiple types from Anderson themselves, *and* there are also several kinds of clones out there--some of which are not very good, and both bend and burn away faster than the real thing.

That said, the PP75's use the same contacts as the SB50 series, and wear slower because they are MUCH thicker and MUCH wider.

User avatar
rojitor
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1061
Joined: Mar 23, 2011 6:39 pm
Location: vigo spain

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by rojitor » Dec 19, 2017 5:31 am

I agree. I abused pp75 over the years without any visible wear. They are underrated. I dunno the exact cypher but they are way over 75 amps capable.

Buk___
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 728
Joined: Jul 28, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by Buk___ » Dec 19, 2017 6:08 am

Alan B wrote:
Dec 19, 2017 2:11 am
The amount of damage in the connector is a function of the voltage and the capacitance. If you have enough of either or both it will damage connectors unless they have anti-spark resistors. If you have enough voltage and capacitance it will burn out the anti-spark resistors, too. They have a limit on what they can handle.
Is there a better solution?

User avatar
dogman dan
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 34682
Joined: May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by dogman dan » Dec 19, 2017 7:35 am

Dude must have a controller with some huge caps inside. Best solution is an anti spark rig.

I find that replacing the 45 amps poles I use needs to be done about once in two years, but the whole connector can cook off sooner if you really do pull 45 amps continuous through them.

Why? Because I have them crimped on crooked. I suspect you might have too. The design of the PP is so that there is some slack in there, but if you crimp to larger wire than 12g, there is no slack. Then a tiny misalignment can cause them to contact on the corner of the flat blade, and heat up.

What to do? Well, you got a crimper now right, and some spares? Make a Y cable, using smaller wire than 10g. So from your battery to the controller, the wire splits, then goes to a pair of 45 amps power poles. Now your contact can float in the housing as designed, and a slight twist can resolve itself. Do try to get them straight though, so each contact lines up with the other in the pair, and you don't have to twist it to plug in.

Mark one of the PP's on each side. Use that one to plug in, and take the spark. then plug in the second one. Now you have potentially each one taking half. If nothing else, the clean one can handle it all.

FWIW, the 4mm bullets are not hard to solder at all, if you have a nice fat tip on the soldering tool. And they don't give a shit about twist. But they are also vulnerable to the spark.

One last bit of advice. Carry some wire nuts and a foot of wire. Then when stranded, you can cut off the tip of a fried Anderson, and just connect the wires with the nut and limp home.

User avatar
MrDude_1
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1046
Joined: Aug 17, 2012 3:07 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by MrDude_1 » Dec 19, 2017 12:57 pm

why are you disconnecting and reconnecting the pack on a regular basis?
add a charge connector to the bike, then leave the battery connected, just plug the bike in. the charge plug wont spark if the charger is on first... it will do a tiny one if it is not on.

if you need it for an on/off switch, why not just add one for the logic? If you need a high power switch for whatever reason, get a mosfet based "anti-spark" switch.

but really, why are you disconnecting it in the first place?
Warning:This post is being read via light, a substance known to the state of California to cause cancer.

cwah
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4534
Joined: Jul 24, 2011 5:42 am
Location: Between paris and london

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by cwah » Dec 19, 2017 3:01 pm

MrDude_1 wrote:
Dec 19, 2017 12:57 pm
why are you disconnecting and reconnecting the pack on a regular basis?
add a charge connector to the bike, then leave the battery connected, just plug the bike in. the charge plug wont spark if the charger is on first... it will do a tiny one if it is not on.

if you need it for an on/off switch, why not just add one for the logic? If you need a high power switch for whatever reason, get a mosfet based "anti-spark" switch.

but really, why are you disconnecting it in the first place?
I want to KISS (keep it supidly simple).

I have 1 connector for charge / discharge. When plugged all lights turn on. When unplugged all is off and I can use it for charging. KISS!

The other way is to add one more set of connector charging and also add a power switch... for which I haven't found any compact and reliable. Do you know where I can find a compact and reliable one?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

User avatar
MrDude_1
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1046
Joined: Aug 17, 2012 3:07 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by MrDude_1 » Dec 19, 2017 3:39 pm

I use a Fletcher designed circuit you can read here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=100

You can buy them premade as "anti-spark" switches from e skate shops too.
Warning:This post is being read via light, a substance known to the state of California to cause cancer.

cwah
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4534
Joined: Jul 24, 2011 5:42 am
Location: Between paris and london

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by cwah » Dec 19, 2017 9:32 pm

Thanks but i don't have time to make a circuit board.... is there any ready made solution?

If not, I'll just keep it simple with other connectors
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

markz
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5244
Joined: Jan 09, 2014 11:38 pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by markz » Dec 19, 2017 10:24 pm

cwah wrote:
Dec 19, 2017 9:32 pm
is there any ready made solution?
Yes!!!!! Use XT90AS from Hobbyking!

User avatar
dogman dan
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 34682
Joined: May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by dogman dan » Dec 20, 2017 7:51 am

Bullet connectors with built in anti spark exist.

But seriously, the double plug trick works well. You will have a clean spare one that never sees any spark. Your rides pull more than Id want to run through a single set of PP 45's anyway.

Or just a bigger plug, large bullets, the XT 90's, monster andersons, etc.

User avatar
MrDude_1
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1046
Joined: Aug 17, 2012 3:07 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by MrDude_1 » Dec 20, 2017 8:00 am

cwah wrote:
Dec 19, 2017 9:32 pm
Thanks but i don't have time to make a circuit board.... is there any ready made solution?

If not, I'll just keep it simple with other connectors
tons.
https://www.google.com/search?q=vedder+ ... h+for+sale
switch goes on the battery lead between your controller and your pack. then a small on/off switch can be mounted somewhere.
Warning:This post is being read via light, a substance known to the state of California to cause cancer.

User avatar
dogman dan
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 34682
Joined: May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Sparkle destroying my Powerpole 45A

Post by dogman dan » Dec 21, 2017 8:18 am

Just learning to crimp those andersons on with the right gage wire, and aligned, should do er.

Post Reply