Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Post Reply
User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 15, 2018 10:29 pm

Anybuddy here on ES?

Seen in ES Newz... No electric mountain bike advocates spoke at the meeting. A second reading and final vote on the code changes is set for Jan. 23.

... here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1351292

HELLO?
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Hmm... That's me.

It would totally suck if they prohibit ebikes on the open space trails. I don't think I'd be able to attend their meeting though.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 15, 2018 10:42 pm

:cry: I was actually living IN a park when park "authorities" BANNED me (my electric bike). AFAIK, FEAR and IGNORANCE "rules"... [sigh]
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 15, 2018 11:24 pm

Just for any/all San Francisco (and "bay area") folks? Bettery-election traction (the "e-bike") is MY weapon of choice to help fight (anthropomorphic aka human-caused) "global climate change". Has the Open Space District even heard this term? DO YOU CARE?

(twits)
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 16, 2018 12:25 am

Lock
Today at 12:20 AM
To deb@openspacecouncil.org

Dear Deb:

Canada here (in Toronto, in the State ("Province") of Ontario)

I understand from news reports that a second reading and final vote on the code changes is set for Jan. 23?

MY concern is anthropomorphic (aka "human-caused") "global climate change"? And electric traction as battery-electric bicycles I believe is a useful weapon in this fight for vehicles used in transportation for urban travels... and hope you may agree.

PLEASE do NOT ban or restrict the electric bicycle if you are concerned about the air we breath? As vehicles go, these are about THE MOST energy-efficient, non-polluting vehicles, comparable to using the food energy as used by the pedal-only 20th-century bicycle. Myself, today I find myself a "disabled, old guy"... who appreciates the assist of the electric bike to get around town.

It would be disturbing to hear that the Bay Area Open Space Council is restricting use of some bikes that are so useful for us "seniors" and the "disabled", and today so popular in China and in Europe.

Best wishes to you and yours...

Regards,
Lock
Toronto
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6448
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16, 2018 1:08 am

Thank the unregistered-motorcycles-with-pedals dicks whenever e-bikes are banished from public infrastructure.

Plates and insurance go a long way towards keeping the peace. They allow us to take the high ground.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 16, 2018 9:17 am

Thanks Lock.
I'm assuming you found that email address somewhere. I will send them something. Being a local might carry more weight.

Chalo wrote:
Jan 16, 2018 1:08 am
Thank the unregistered-motorcycles-with-pedals dicks whenever e-bikes are banished from public infrastructure.

Plates and insurance go a long way towards keeping the peace. They allow us to take the high ground.
I don't think that's the problem here. I've ridden extensively on the open space trails over the last year and I think I've only seen maybe two other ebikes, and they were Bosch drives. The problem here is the "mountain bike gods" that think they own the land and want it for their personal race track. The speed limit on the fire roads is 15mph but these guys go way faster than that. I see 30' long skid marks in the dirt all the time. These are the same guys that build bootleg single track trails, jumps, etc.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 16, 2018 9:43 am

OK, I sent Deb an email. Can't hurt I guess.
Dear Deb,

I’m not sure this is going to the right person, so please let me know if this should go elsewhere.

I recently read in the Marin IJ about a proposal to ban electric bikes from the open space trails. As I understand the current rules, Class 1 and 2 electric bikes are allowed on fire roads, but not on single track trails unless specifically posted.
I’ve been using my electric mountain bike on the fire roads over the last year, and I don’t understand why this should be an issue or worthy of being banned. E-bikes are no more damaging environmentally than regular bikes, in fact, I’d say less damaging since they tend to go slower downhill. What causes problems are the bikers (non-electric) that speed on the trails, often locking their wheels and leaving long skid marks. These are the same guys that build bootleg single track trails, jumps etc. on the open space land, causing erosion issues. These same people think they own the land and want it for their personal race track and don’t want to share it with others.

I’m over 60 and found it quite difficult to ride a regular bike on the fire roads due to the steepness. Since I got my e-bike, I’ve been able to ride much more often, enjoy the open space, and improve my health overall. The bike is silent and doesn’t tear up the ground like the regular bikes. I can also ride to the trails from my home and don’t need to haul my bike on the back of a giant SUV to get there.

I live in Terra Linda and ride mostly around there. Over the past year, I’ve ridden nearly every weekend and I think I’ve seen maybe two other electric bikes in the whole time. There really aren’t that many of them.

Please leave the rules the way they are!
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
Wolfeman
100 W
100 W
Posts: 167
Joined: May 13, 2014 12:09 pm
Location: West Coast USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by Wolfeman » Jan 16, 2018 10:04 am

I grew up out there and rode trails whether they were open to bikes or not. I rode at a prudent speed, always yielded to pedestrians and horses, and was actually on one of the YCC crews that maintained the trails. Never got a ticket (or even saw a ranger patrolling a trail). Looking forward to going back with an ebike and riding all of my favorite trails from my youth, rules be damned. I'll ride as I always have and if I get a ticket, I'll consider it the price of admission.

On a side note, it's always been my experience that the horses that use the trails do WAY more damage than mountain bikes ever could. Steel shod hooves pound and dig the dirt into silt, dramatically increasing erosion.
Trek 4300 w/ H3580 Crystalyte at 2300W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=82738

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 16, 2018 10:15 am

:) "I'm assuming you found that email address somewhere."

Image

https://openspacecouncil.org/about/contact/
Deb Callahan

Executive Director
(510) 809 8009 ext 254
deb@openspacecouncil.org
Image

In business, always used to dealing with owners and managers... so used to "shooting for the top". :mrgreen:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 16, 2018 12:27 pm

Thanks Lock.

It will be interesting to see if I get a reply.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6448
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by Chalo » Jan 16, 2018 1:38 pm

fechter wrote:
Jan 16, 2018 9:17 am
Chalo wrote:
Jan 16, 2018 1:08 am
Thank the unregistered-motorcycles-with-pedals dicks whenever e-bikes are banished from public infrastructure.
I don't think that's the problem here. I've ridden extensively on the open space trails over the last year and I think I've only seen maybe two other ebikes, and they were Bosch drives. The problem here is the "mountain bike gods" that think they own the land and want it for their personal race track.
Ah, that's tiresome. The kind of so-called cyclists who drive cars and trucks to carry their bikes to the trails. I see such riders often and they seem distinctly non-badass.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 18, 2018 5:11 pm

After a little more research, it seems it was the hard-core tree huggers that were against the electric bikes, not the MTB gods.
The original article states:
County supervisors Jan. 9 also approved, on first reading, an ordinance that would amend Open Space District regulations. Several environmentalists spoke in favor of the changes, which include adding electric bicycles to the list of motor-driven vehicles that are prohibited on district lands.
‘“We have a strong concern about the fact that electric mountain bikes are appearing on public lands,” said Nona Dennis, a Marin Conservation League board member, who spoke in favor of the code change. “Rules are very unclear as to how they are allowed on what we call natural surface.”
If the Open Space District adds electric mountain bikes to the list of motor-driven vehicles, they will be banned from unpaved road and trails, with one exception. Electric mountain bikes will continue to be permitted as a “other power driven mobility device” under the federal Americans with Disabilities Act.
The Open Space District’s inclusive access plan specifies specific locations and safety conditions, such as speed, under which Class 1 electric mountain bikes — capable of speeds up to 20 miles per hour — may operate on trails.
Korten said, “We have a 6-mile-per-hour speed limit, and it’s for people with disabilities.”
Dennis said some electric mountain bike users, however, want access to all trails open to non-electric mountain bikes. No electric mountain bike advocates spoke at the meeting. A second reading and final vote on the code changes is set for Jan. 23.
It was the Marin Conservation League people. Of course electric bikes are appearing on public lands. It became legal a year ago.

They also want to close off part of the preserve to all bicycles because spotted owls nest there and I guess bikes disturb them. That's fine with me since I don't ride in that area anyway.

I sent them a link to Justin's interview where he points out that electric bikes have a significantly smaller carbon footprint than regular bikes: http://www.fayettetribune.com/community ... 88355.html

If they ban ebikes, I'll probably just become an outlaw. In over 500 miles of trail riding, I have never seen a park ranger.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 18, 2018 7:38 pm

"hard-core tree huggers that were against the electric bikes"...


ACK! When these folks have to MOST TO GAIN by encouraging use of the "tiniest", about the MOST energy-efficient vehicles, watt use electric motors for an "assist". [GRUMBLE GRUMBLE...] Probably don't breath the same air. :mrgreen:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
wturber
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 500
Joined: Aug 23, 2017 8:52 pm
Location: Fountain Hills,AZ
Contact:

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by wturber » Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm

LockH wrote:
Jan 18, 2018 7:38 pm
"hard-core tree huggers that were against the electric bikes"...


ACK! When these folks have to MOST TO GAIN by encouraging use of the "tiniest", about the MOST energy-efficient vehicles, watt use electric motors for an "assist". [GRUMBLE GRUMBLE...] Probably don't breath the same air. :mrgreen:
I think some of them have also given strong opposition to the building of large solar farms. My sense is that the more extreme of these folks just want other people to go away.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 19, 2018 3:06 pm

They don't like wind power either. Birds get killed by hitting the blades.

I guess they think it's OK when the birds get killed by global warming instead.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 20, 2018 12:06 am

^^ Hehe... Might assume folks don't know watt any "modern" wind generator designs look like....
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 41&t=62084

:wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

docw009
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 588
Joined: Aug 02, 2015 7:43 am
Location: Chicago area suburbs.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by docw009 » Jan 20, 2018 4:02 pm

If you live in Marin County, at least one rider is planning to attend the next meeting on this subject.

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/th ... nty.15866/

https://www.meetup.com/ebiketreks/event ... uK6dh-Qypv

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 20, 2018 4:18 pm

docw009 wrote:
Jan 20, 2018 4:02 pm
If you live in Marin County, at least one rider is planning to attend the next meeting on this subject.

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/th ... nty.15866/

https://www.meetup.com/ebiketreks/event ... uK6dh-Qypv
That's good news. Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend but I've very glad somebody else will. I did send emails to the Open Space District and Marin Conservation League.

If we're going to be banned from the trails, I'd at least want to know a good reason (so we can fix it).
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 20, 2018 5:25 pm

wturber wrote:
Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm
I think some of them have also given strong opposition to the building of large solar farms. My sense is that the more extreme of these folks just want other people to go away.
Hehe... MY idea of a "large solar farm"... where using todays "thin-film" solar, yah can distributed the cells over EVerybuddys roof tops:
Image

:wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 23, 2018 9:03 am

docw009 wrote:
Jan 20, 2018 4:02 pm
If you live in Marin County, at least one rider is planning to attend the next meeting on this subject.

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/th ... nty.15866/

https://www.meetup.com/ebiketreks/event ... uK6dh-Qypv
Let us know what happens.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 23, 2018 11:24 pm

^^ Watt he said! "A second reading and final vote on the code changes is set for Jan. 23"...
Anybuddy?
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 12154
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by fechter » Jan 24, 2018 9:19 am

The full story here:
http://www.marinij.com/general-news/201 ... -on-trails
Users of electric bicycles — many of them seniors and people with physical ailments — turned out in force Tuesday as Marin supervisors considered banning use on county trails. Supervisors reacted by reversing course on an ordinance that would have reaffirmed that electric bicycles are prohibited on county Open Space District land. While the board made clear it is interested in revisiting the issue, supervisors stopped short of legalizing the use of electric bicycles on county open space.

The electric bike users spoke out during a hearing on an ordinance proposing several amendments to Open Space District regulations. One of the proposed amendments would have added “electric bicycles” to the list of motor-driven vehicles that are prohibited.
“I personally am not ready to go forward with the proposed revisions to this section,” said Supervisor Kate Sears. “We have heard a lot that really suggests that we need to hear a lot more.”

Max Korten, county Open Space District director, said the district already considers electric bicycles to fall under the category of motor-driven vehicles, so the proposed change was simply to make that explicit. The supervisors voted unanimously to excise the new language on electric bikes and take a final vote on the amended regulations at a future meeting.

Electric bikes are allowed in specific locations under the Open Space District’s inclusive access plan for people with disabilities. Only Class 1 electric bikes are permitted and there is a 6 mph speed limit.
Environmentalists and equestrians, however, said opening district lands to electric bikes would be a major change that could have serious negative consequences.

“I suggest that you go online and look at what some of the electric motorized bikes look like,” said Linda Novy of Fairfax, a Marin Conservation League board member. “They look like motorcycles. Many public land managers have banned electric bikes.

“Class 2 and Class 3 bikes will certainly show up,” Novy said. “How will you monitor for resource impacts? You’ve already heard that users can go further and faster. What impact is that going to have on wildlife, trail tread and other people visiting the preserve looking for a slower experience?”

So it seems I've been an outlaw all along, but their position is in conflict with Assembly Bill 1096 which allows 28MPH-capable electric bikes in bike lanes and allows low-power, pedal-assist electric bikes to use bike paths except when prohibited by local law.Nov 6, 2015.
Since there are no signs indicating ebikes are prohibited, the assumption is they are allowed.

BTW, thanks to everybody who showed up at the meeting. If we outnumber the radical tree huggers, we have a chance. From what they are saying, it seems like they would want to ban all bicycles and even hikers.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Jan 24, 2018 9:36 am

[SIGH]...
“Bigger and Bigger horseless carriages will certainly show up,” Novy said. “How will you monitor for resource impacts? You’ve already heard that users can go further and faster. What impact is that vehicle infrastructure going to have on wildlife, trail tread and other people visiting the preserve looking for a slower experience?”
Presumably written by someone who drives their car to protest meetings about climate change... etc. ("Somebody [else] should DO something!!!")
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

User avatar
LockH
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13887
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 11:06 pm
Location: Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then started to move around... Oh oh.

Re: Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area?

Post by LockH » Feb 05, 2018 8:44 pm

fechter wrote:
Feb 05, 2018 9:34 am
Glad to hear, but really need to wait until they decide.
Sure hope poor/overworked Supervisors aren't swamped with emails, etc while they're "deciding"...:
https://www.marincounty.org/depts/bs/ab ... upervisors

[cough cough]

(This post copied to this thread at the suggestion of Master fechter ...)
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

Post Reply