Zip Tie Failure

markz

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I've boughten a lot of zip ties to secure battery to the top of my rear rack.
They keep breaking!

I've purchased department store ones which are useless (Canadian Tire, Rona, Lowes, HD, Harbor King/Princess Auto) Zip ties. Even the thicker zip ties break, I purchased 36" long x 1/2-3/4" wide from PA, and they broke last night.

The one's I've used a few times were the metal zip ties from Canadian Tire and they were good but hard to get a good tightness to them since the metal doesnt conform to corners very well. I just use cut off pliers and hammer the corners in, but still.

A step up from that is galvanized steel 24g 3/4" metal with the holes in them to secure say a dresser to the wall or to secure a hanging pipe from the ceiling. I just used some long bolts that were laying around, and go one hole up so that the bolt fits but you got like an inch to go, using your fingers, throw that nut on there and rock the bolt back and forth pushing the gap in and tightening the bolt. Of course you gotta conform the corners so there is no slack.

Works great!
 
On my fat bike, I've secured my triangle 17 AH battery with pipe wrap tape. It's waterproof, UV resistant, grips great, but at the same time when you need to peel it off it leaves no residue like duct tape. Zip ties have their place, but not for my battery. One other benefit of the pipe wrap tape method is it makes the bike look trashy, less steal worthy.
 
Zip tie to secure batteries does equal failure.

Time to upgrade to hose clamps, the big ones intended for securing flex duct. There are also mondo zip ties they use for the same thing. A real battery box would be an even better idea.

I'd rather use doubled up baling wire for securing anything heavier, than regular zip ties.
 
I tried a bunch of things for securing my 20lb A123 battery to my rack before I settled on grip tape applied to battery box and rack, and a pair of good old (high quality) bungee cords. They've survived a couple of seasons now, the sun is getting the better of them now and they'll need replacing in the spring.

I think they have just enough elasticity to take the occasional hard bump, everything else I tried did not.
 
dustNbone said:
I tried a bunch of things for securing my 20lb A123 battery to my rack before I settled on grip tape applied to battery box and rack, and a pair of good old (high quality) bungee cords. They've survived a couple of seasons now, the sun is getting the better of them now and they'll need replacing in the spring.

I think they have just enough elasticity to take the occasional hard bump, everything else I tried did not.

A single heavy duty bungee keeps my seven 36v hoverboard packs (about 15 lbs) attached to my rack. The packs and case are padded and I like the that the bungee gives a little bit on harder bumps.
 
The two main environmental issues with zipties are UV quickly degrading the plastic, which makes them brittle, and cold, which makes them brittle.

How cold will depend on which plastic is used, how much "plasticizer", etc.

Most zipties don't have any (sigificant) UV-protection so they fail from that relatively quickly if exposed to the sun. The mroe translucent they are, the worse the problem, in general.


Another separate problem is mechanical--the only thing keeping a zip tie zipped is an extremely tiny tab against not-very-deep ratched ribs. If the zip tie is really soft and flexible, so is this tab, and it may not hold very tightly. If it's brittle, this tab can just break right off. There's very little middle ground for bearing a load on that tab.

THe ratchet ribs also can make the whole tie prone to snapping along the depth of a rib, like a gear root--if they used very sharp transitions from the slope of one rib to the face of the next, it can shear at that transition at a sharp bend around whatever you're securing.. If they rounded that transition, it's not as bad.


It's not a great way to secure a laod that changes constantly, either, like with a significant mass that is moving around from vibration/etc. If the zipties are secure enough to completely keep it from moving relative to the other thing the ties are holding it against, it's not so bad, but they usually aren't, and so the tension on the tab changes all the time, which isnt' helpful especially if it's exceptionally soft or brittle.


There are some with a metal tab embedded in the plastic, instead of all-plastic, and those are way better regarding tab failure. STill vulnerable to UV and cold though.


All metal ones can be better than either one, but like hose clamps, it depends on the metals they're made of and how they fabricated the tab end / box, and secured it all together. Some of them just unfold under tension, some get tighter.
 
Ah yes I forgot to mention large hose clamps, like the ones on street lamp poles. Buy good quality ones. I see $3 for 7" and $6 for 12" states and 20" for $13.

I was going to use metal strips and long bolts to clamp the battery, but the 24g strapping works like a charm, $5 for 25'

Never heard of Pipe Wrap before, looks interesting.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-x-50-ft-20-Mil-Pipe-Wrap-Tape-53550/100179778

Them metal zip ties are $2+ per zip tie, packs of 10 or 100, only used a pack of 5 from Canadian Tire. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/22-in-stainless-steel-cable-ties-5-pk-0522073p.html#srp
 
... and for those wanting an easily removed battery, think Velcro, like the heavy-duty 2" straps and whatnot.

In the past I sewed up my own using 3m heavy duty velcro but nowadays you can find most anything already made.
 
2" wide Velcro can hold a lot of weight, not a bad idea.

Make your own huge hose clamp from the plumbing strap is also a good idea, cheap way to go.
 
I use 3 1/2" or 3/4" wide velcro straps to hold my 10lb 14ah battery in place on the top rail of my bike frame. It's kinda a pain to get it on the first time and tight so it doesn't wobble around but that was my fault by making the tube opening too wide...Hopefully fix coming for that. But it is super easy to take off and will work great for my commuting!
 
I use 5 zip ties in my 36v macalister battery holder which is underslung on the downtube of my Norco DH team race. I liked the design so much I duplicated it (it is plastic printed so easy to do) There are 20 18650's in each battery so that's about 20x50g so 1kg per 5 zip ties. It is 80v hot of the charge and a lot of fun for me and the Husky

Here's the thing, I use inch wide Velcro strap to hold the weight and it works in combination perfectly. Very robust. I wouldn't trust the zip ties alone on there own because I'm also just relying on a small amount of printed plastic too on the guides at the side of the holder.

They will age in the sun but by the time that is a problem I will have replaced them with new ones. (they aren't that expensive).
 
Velcro works, but can be an issue in the wet and the mud. For something like this, I would use 1" webbing strap but a n adjustable strap buckle. Like a backpack or tool bag strap. Something like this:
31JWL00hzXL.jpg
 
I have a bunch of different sizes of webbing, reading this thread makes me want to try to sew some straps with webbing combined with 3M Dual-Lock Velcro. I use that stuff to hold some of my effects pedals on my guitar pedalboard, you almost have to use a screwdriver to pry them up off the board to move them around.
 
I use 1" webbing strap with a quick release buckle on my A2B. I can cinch the strap pretty tight and it has worked well for a couple of years.
 
Before my new retrofit, I would go through a lot of zip ties to keep my controller in place. When I got hit by the car it cracked my triangle battery box in a way that made the controller unstable. The zip ties, though big and black in color, kept breaking anyway. I am glad to go to a different battery box now. My battery will be secured inside with metal not plastic.

When I built my first bike I bolted a plastic tool case to the rear rack. I was using SLA's back then. It worked great for housing the batteries. A scrap piece of ply wood under the rack and u-bolts connecting through the bottom of the tool case. The rack was sandwiched in the middle. The problem was that the weight imbalance made the bike unstable. One day I made a quick turn and the weight of the batteries on the rack pulled my bike down and I whipped my rib cage across the curb fracturing a rib.

You know about bike accidents. If you can move your batteries lower. If you can't bolt a box to your rack and save on straps.

:D
 
Drunkskunk said:
Velcro works, but can be an issue in the wet and the mud. For something like this, I would use 1" webbing strap but a n adjustable strap buckle. Like a backpack or tool bag strap. Something like this:
31JWL00hzXL.jpg

I use similar plastic quick fasteners, the same kind, with tabs on the side that release the buckle when pressed together are my favorite. I and 2", but my very favorite type are the ones that allow gross adjustments on either end, both ends having serrations that grip the web strap positively but are easy to adjust when you need to. I use them all over the plane and trust them, within reason. They hold my Montague in the folded position, and 3 of them hang the 11.5 AH battery from the top fram rail, as taking it on and off real quick is essential. I love those things, and am using them more now then velcro straps. These are the ones:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074BK5R9H/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B074BK5R9H&pd_rd_wg=ZeJ6h&pd_rd_r=W20NFCK39FK42ADMRMPB&pd_rd_w=qpSpI
 
Years of backcountry adventures in my misspent "yoo" introduced me to NRS straps.Nothing worse than tilting and loosing gear from poorly secured gear. A bit expensive but not oppressive.

https://www.nrs.com/product/1441/nrs-1-color-coded-tie-down-straps. https://www.nrs.com/product/1446/nrs-15-padded-straps

I guess maybe I wouldn't have purchased them for this job, but if I knew about them I would have. TOUGH! the 20" are stellar. I they were available in 20" black, it'd be seriously the end all.

To many shitty grades of velcro and too many failure experiences for me.
 
i bet that's easy to wheelie with that weight back there. looks better than that metal strapping.
 
Yeah that does hang way back, my A123 pack at least sits around the centerline of the axle. But at the end of the day, it's fairly insubstantial weight compared to the rider. As long as you're sitting forward enough, ass over tea kettle shouldn't happen.

The main issue I have with the battery on the back like that is when I occasionally need to pick the bike up, it's much easier to manage with the weight centered in the frame.
 
Put it on your handlebars. ;)
 

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