15000 miles today

RustyKipper

100 W
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
117
Location
South Yorkshire UK the land of flat caps and wippe
Hey all,

I hit 15,000 miles today in 3 years Woohoo! :D



Here is what it took:

9 chains (they are badly stretched after 3 months, these are difficult to keep lubricated as it often rains so the oil gets washed out and road grit gets washed in)
6 cassettes (wear)
4 chain wheels (wear)
1 bottom bracket (failed)
2 sets of pedals
2 rear mech (1 wore out, I shook loose and jumped into spokes)
1 front mech (seized from mud and salt)
1 stand (shook to pieces)
1 frame (cracked frame)
2 forks (1 x snapped)
2 saddles (1 x broke, 1 broke hitting a pot hole that caused injury)
1 computers (stopped reading)
6 tyres (mixture of wear and perforations from metal swarf, glass and sharp broken car springs, tried a big apple and had a puncture within 2 miles)
2 wheels (mainly for motor upgrades)
1 motor (first one died at about 7000 miles from bearing failure and water ingress)
2 controllers (1 died from motor failure, 1 x upgrade for motor)
10 inner tubes (3 x 3.5 mm thick alpine downhill indestructible tubes)
5 gear cables (snapped)
3 gear shifters (broken)
3 throttles (snapped)
3 mirrors (1 x snapped, 1 x lens shaken out from rough road surface)
5 brake discs (1 x warped, 1 x cracked, others wore out)
9 brake pads (1 pair lasted 1 week!)
1 battery packs (1 x retired through old age and became unreliable)
3 padded under pants (wore out and not due to soiling)
2 Gortex jackets (Gortex is only a temporary coating that wears off within a few months)
2 helmets (landed on head twice)

Injuries:
Brocken nose (glasses steamed up in forest and didn’t see the tree)
Broken cheekbone (Car pulled out, went over handlebars)
Broken collarbone (twice, 1 x car pulled out, 1 x swerved to miss pothole and hit kerb)
Broken finger (ahem…slid into tree)
Broken wrist (car pulled out, went over handle bars)
Damaged urethra (pothole)

The bike is a bit like grand dads broom in that just about everything has been replaced except for the handlebars, bell, water bottle holder and rear mudguard.

Total cost is about £2288, the equivalent cost of fuel (LPG) if I were to drive to work…..£1680, however the drive to and from work is appalling and there is only limited parking at available.

This is not your regular commute, a lot of it is fairly hard core mountain biking involving traversing a colliery spoil heap with a terrifying 50 foot muddy tree root decent, fields, meadows, forests and single tracks. Many times the bike has been completely stuck in 8 inches of mud or so clogged that its ground to a halt and I’ve had to snap a twig off a tree to dig the mud out of the front wheel and gears. Due to some roads not being maintained the bike also gets shaken to bits, most fasteners are either heavily thread locked or wire locked, even so I’ve have brakes and wheels shake loose, think riding over a cattle grid for several miles every day! also taking speed bumps at 30 mph leads to some pretty impressive jumps.

Other interesting points;

In the summer this bike is charged from 100% solar
In 15000 miles I have climbed 111 miles! I guess that's equivalent of riding up mount Everest 20 times!

bike side small.jpg
 
That's a lot of miles. :)

RustyKipper said:
9 chains (they are badly stretched after 3 months, these are difficult to keep lubricated as it often rains so the oil gets washed out and road grit gets washed in)
Try chainwax instead of oil?

But I suspect the conditions will get grit in there no matter what.

I don't know how effective it would be, but you could build a metal shroud around the entire chainline including the derailer and front triple (just enough clearance for your feet on the cranks). If it fits close enough to the moving parts it could keep out most of the solid stuff, and only have to worry about grit-loaded water if you ride thru stuff deep enough for that.


For traction/etc, if you need improvements: I couldn't tell if you have a front motor, too, but if not you might consider 2wd, either by putting the motor you have in front and using pedal power as rear drive, or adding a second motor up front.



2 Gortex jackets (Gortex is only a temporary coating that wears off within a few months)
3M makes a spray-on water repellent that works reasonably well on a lot of clothing.
 
I doo keep seriously thinking about some sort of chain guard, its been a while since I've made anything out of carbon. I keep looking at pictures of bikes from way back when that have a fully enclosed chain, obviously this would be tricky with a front and rear mech but would cut down massively on maintenance.

I'm definitely going 2wd once the rear CST gives up, this will be 2 x 250W motors, it will give a ton more traction (at the expense of some steering) but also be a huge help to balance the bike, the rear motor is HEAVY and over badly rutted roads its completely impossible to keep the rear wheel on the road surface, it also gives a very harsh ride. The bike is also very heavy to manoeuvre manually when I put it away at night as I'm lifting it from the back.

Interesting about the 3M spray, I've tried Nicwax and concluded that its snake oil, I've used the wash in stuff which did nothing, I tried washing the jacket in the Nikwax liquid then tried the wash in stuff again following the instructions to the letter...nothing, I tried the Nikwax spray and still this didn't work. The first few beads of rain run off but after a couple of minutes the jacket starts to wet out, it then becomes very difficult to dry the jacket out before the next journey. It would be great to hear if anyone has successfully re-waterproofed one of these jackets. I do keep a Fox racing polythene jacket in the yellow carrier on the front of the bike but as it takes about 45 minutes of hard uphill climbing to get home so I think I will be getting wetter on the inside than out so I'm kind of keeping this for the heaviest of downpours.
 
You have the Q 128 cst rear hub motor ?

As far as using 2 wheel drive , you have front suspension which is something you will want to keep, a front motor will snap/brake those little alloy tabs at the bottom of the fork legs which = more crashes and injuries .

For suspension and a front hub you want a newer and stronger , through axle suspension fork.

Grin makes the only front wheel through axle hub motor that I know of at this time, but it is heavy since it is a DD hub.

I have thought about how to take a newer ( last 12 + years now ) front fork that uses a 15mm x 100 mm axle and make a bolt on threaded axle front hub work with it.
You would have to get a machinist to make some axle nuts that would have threads in the inside of them , and flat ( round ) finished outside, ( just like a connector nut )
then cut the axle of the front hub on one side or both sides a little , just enough to angle one side up and into the fork leg then through the other side. Now this is where the two bolts come into play , they are threaded onto the axle from the outside and held into place in some way like with a pin .

Pictures of connector nuts ...http://www.allfasteners.com.au/connector-nut-jcb

Also
With all that milage you are doing, I would think it is now time for a Full Suspension Frame .
Single Pivot designs have the advantage in that you can use a larger outer chainring so you can peddle at higher speeds.
Get a newer frame one like from 2011 and newer. before that there were problems on each design from most every Mgf. that were latter corrected by 2010-2012 time period.
 
Thanks for posting this RustyKipper. It's really cool to see a daily rider hardtail set up so nicely and racking up SO MANY miles. Your bike is another great example of ebikes being the sustainable and fun alternative to cars.
 
Had my fair share of accidents but nothing as serious as yours. I did 3000 miles on my hub drive and changed 1x freewheel and 1x chain, switch to BBS02 for the look of smaller drive(stealth) and chewed through 6x chains, 3x cassettes and 2x Chainrings in the same 3000 miles...
 
Nice. Watching a series of YouTube videos from a guy in Oregon who had put 10,000 miles on his e-bike was one of the things that convinced me to give it a go. Clearly, an e-bike can replace a car to some extent. I was putting about 500 miles a month on mine when I got sidetracked with a medical problem. Should be cleared to ride again in 30 days. Fingers crossed.

I'll second the suggestion to try waxing your chain. I don't have your wet conditions, but have been running with paraffin to minimize the black buildup on the chains and the bother of having to steer clear of that mess. So far, so good. But I don't have thousands of miles on the chain yet.

Gore Tex is supposed to be more than a coating. If your Gore Tex is wearing out quickly, I'd contact Gore Tex about it.
https://www.gore-tex.com/technology/what-is-gore-tex

Their promise:
https://www.gore-tex.com/support/guarantee

"No matter which of our trusted brand partners makes the product, if it’s GUARANTEED TO KEEP YOU DRY®, our promise to the consumer is that it remains durably waterproof, windproof and breathable for the intended use during the products useful life.

If you are not completely satisfied with the waterproofness, windproofness or breathability of your product, then we will repair it, replace it, or refund your purchase price.

This promise applies to new item purchases and lasts for the useful life of the product. Products that are damaged, misused, lack proper care or are considered by Gore to be beyond useful life, are excluded."
 
RustyKipper said:
I do keep a Fox racing polythene jacket in the yellow carrier on the front of the bike but as it takes about 45 minutes of hard uphill climbing to get home so I think I will be getting wetter on the inside than out so I'm kind of keeping this for the heaviest of downpours.
The next best recommendation I would have is going to the motorcycle rain gear. It's rainproof (resistant ;) ) outer covering gear that is meant to go on over your existing clothing/etc, so it's kinda "puffy" when you ahve it on, a bit annoying but it works pretty well. The set I have used to be my friend Bill's, and he used it for years on his motorcycle for cross-country trips (usually from Phoenix up thru various places thru Yellowstone Park to the Sturgis motorcycle meetup and back, but also trips from here thru NM to central Texas and back). It kept him fairly dry, with the neck strip tucked into the bottom seal of the FF MC helmet he wore, and good calf-length boots tucked under the leggings (which button down).

I don't have rides that are very long in the rain--it's usually just my commute taht's 10-15 minutes if traffic is normal, although I had a few drenching storms when i lived an hour away from work a few years back. Mind you, mine is city conditions, not what you have.

I use Army boots just for the ride if it's going to be rainy. They arent' comfortable but they do keep the water out. (and carry regular shoes for the other end of the trip).

These days I have a canopy over the trike that keeps most of the rain off my head, but before that I used a FF MC helmet to keep my head dry and keep water from running down the neck into the rest of me.

But some of these rain suits also have cinching hoods, which is probably the style you're after.


The one problem with the mc suits is they are designed for keeping rain and splash water completely out even at highway speeds, which means they don't have any air circulation. If you're pedalling hard, you're going to get awfully hot inside it, even if it's fairly cold out.
 
ScooterMan101 said:
As far as using 2 wheel drive , you have front suspension which is something you will want to keep, a front motor will snap/brake those little alloy tabs at the bottom of the fork legs which = more crashes and injuries .
Not with good torque arms properly installed. ;)
 
wturber said:
Nice. Watching a series of YouTube videos from a guy in Oregon who had put 10,000 miles on his e-bike was one of the things that convinced me to give it a go. Clearly, an e-bike can replace a car to some extent. I was putting about 500 miles a month on mine when I got sidetracked with a medical problem. Should be cleared to ride again in 30 days. Fingers crossed.

I'll second the suggestion to try waxing your chain. I don't have your wet conditions, but have been running with paraffin to minimize the black buildup on the chains and the bother of having to steer clear of that mess. So far, so good. But I don't have thousands of miles on the chain yet.

Gore Tex is supposed to be more than a coating. If your Gore Tex is wearing out quickly, I'd contact Gore Tex about it.
https://www.gore-tex.com/technology/what-is-gore-tex

Their promise:
https://www.gore-tex.com/support/guarantee

"No matter which of our trusted brand partners makes the product, if it’s GUARANTEED TO KEEP YOU DRY®, our promise to the consumer is that it remains durably waterproof, windproof and breathable for the intended use during the products useful life.

If you are not completely satisfied with the waterproofness, windproofness or breathability of your product, then we will repair it, replace it, or refund your purchase price.

This promise applies to new item purchases and lasts for the useful life of the product. Products that are damaged, misused, lack proper care or are considered by Gore to be beyond useful life, are excluded."

Gore-Tex is a membrane sewn between liner and outer fabric usually, I've been using garments made with the stuff since it's invention, it's always seemed to hold up well for me and retain it's ability to shed water as long as washing instructions are followed closely, wash in Woolite or similar gentle soap and never dry with any heat.
 
RustyKipper said:
Damaged urethra (pothole)

Aouch...

It's great that you have inventoried all of the cost associated with your commute and from the sound of it the fun factor is priceless :)

Personally, I spend so much on my commuter ebikes that I pretty much break even to owning an additional car that would be needed to commute otherwise. But I still chose an ebike because it's often the most fun I have all day! (I commute about 4000 miles a year.)

That being said, I am very impressed by a car's reliability in general. I have a car with 60,000 miles on it and have only changed the tires and wipers once ... Can't say that with most bikes and even less with ebikes...That's why I've been looking to build a very reliable e-commuter with a low cost of ownership and maintenance (although I get some pleasure out of that too sometime - except when it's a flat tire on a cold rainy day...)

I've found that the greatest cost with ebike commuting are tires and batteries. So I'm going to try moped tires and LTO cells (rated for 5000-10000 cycles - see thread in battery section if interested in more details)
 
It does get amazing what wear and tear of that kind of mileage does. ( 5k miles a year) Its why my calculations of cost of e bike commuting turn out to be about double the cost of riding a smaller motorcycle the same distance.

Its a lot of battery cost to be sure, but it gets amazing how many chains, tires, and brake pads you go through.

My e bikes at best about 25 cents a mile, while the 400cc scooter comes out around 12 cents. (But bought very cheap, used) If I paid new for the bike, it would end up about same as the e bike.

Its part of why I have more or less given up on the idea of long distance e bike riding. Enough battery for 30 mile rides is all I need. Longer trips are much better on the scoot.
 
Here's sorta what I'm estimating for costs.
fmHBHlBKSZckA6ZsKtiSeAzqwLZxx8pRqXv4a4X_Aur2FKCU91fSUqPNxc0DoYSI6NLTOqyrooGxzBwU6q4QRfUCaVKfLWc8wB11tnUSGqHHRJrEMGZYDK1VvPDSD1mvM1xRiu3osgKBBR8IudGhJ7YZvEIzcac2M4XYz5FZvAeenSSmGdhtJTvExgxQ5-WoYJOf1gfzzFLqYqgiLxWDATOQFG1eNRh2w92eZdzYPRZXBDIh26zX4gmHYzqL4qjpEiZCX4Z6kFWlJhD1dDzAWIv-QGpPx_HlGxTvcvHz2CR6yHkrkLyNgkFBrUo8oxva0DvGZvgebr0lGjqIA5l6Ilte2cmVLuDELrB1UlfcfzON_9KYuXDYwnDMCv0SNFOnpmLBgsQ0yhH3uXEKE5vgW5H-AmfTesg-IKG7hjYyjk8Mq1q9luAbAQI4G_ygcJI41RCKiIqqcJlHzZuR3rcxOAfIjggXMkov5uApKCsoKignqo64fm_mCGxZS9W7a8VxlfYzXes1jqSa8L7NIynUPAKErSNK5VWO_xXUsSOQ6A6jmqbrRbPkJXFRM6MK8X-a6TxSBnW9fLoLRxxgJyEIRzzLF6X6Opu1NFMhxESf=w273-h511-no

So by cutting down on battery cost and tires, I can half the cost of ownership. I will be testing it out shortly once I complete the LTO build :)

I agree, whether it's an electric bike or car, electric vehicles are better suited for short distances. ICE (or human power) is still the way to go for longer distance.
 
Wow, I feel lucky. I have only half as many miles in the same time frame, but nowhere near the amount of injury or expense. 2 chains and freewheels, 2 hookworms( due for 1 more), 2 sets of pads, couple hall repairs on an abused Mac, 2 tubes. Scuffed my shin a bit once. Hey, it really stung!
 
It’s definitely fun I really enjoy it, I used to stay awake at night dreading the drive in to work, there is something like 35 sets of traffic lights and 19 roundabouts each way some of which you have to fight your way through and I would spend a good hour every day just stationary...horrible. The ride in winter is quite scary as its perpetually dark and out in the sticks there are no lights what so ever and the thought of getting a puncture or falling down a pothole is not good. But in the summer its fabulous and even in the pouring rain I don’t even think about trying to use the car. In the snow its even more fun as I can break out my ice bike.

I think an E-bike is the ideal mode of transport for commuting around a city, places like London or Cambridge are really good as there are a lot of cycle lanes, its getting better here in the North, I'm currently working with the local council to improve what we have. I think if you can make an E-bike work on a wet and windy rock in the North Atlantic you could get one to work anywhere.

Water proof clothing is the bane of my life! The ride home is VERY hard work I have to climb something like 800 feet and I try to average 18 – 19mph as it’s the end of the day and I’m always tired and hungry and if I don’t pedal like a mad thing it makes for a long commute. So this means I generate a LOT of heat, even recently riding home in -14 degrees C I nearly ended up with heat exhaustion because I was wearing windproof / water proof trousers and battling a 17% grade with a 30mph headwind and being on my ice bike it didn’t have a water bottle. I always wear shorts to try and shed heat, if the temperature gets bellow about 5 degrees I wear wool tights to give a bit of insulation to protect my knees but my legs can still breathe, if it gets below -3 degrees I were some thick tights. Many times I have toyed with the idea of buying some breathable waterproof hi-vis fabric and breaking out the sewing machine to make something like a onesie with shorts built in I could then wear this in the rain and not need waterproof trousers. I tend to wear either wellington boots or rubber Velcro fasting boots as normal boots get trashed from the road spray, if I’m not wearing wellingtons I have to wear gaiters to stop my boots completely filling with water then taking days to dry out. Quite often it is bitterly cold when I set off but after a couple of miles I’m roasting, I think there is a saying ‘ dress for the second mile and not the first’.

A lot of the injuries were caused by the mechanical disk brakes being too grabby, if I had to brake hard they would either toss me over the handlebars or skid on a wet road, someone on this forum suggested using Shimano Zee brakes, I can’t tell you the improvement these have made!!!

Interesting to hear about the mid drive chewing through chains, for a while I considered a mid drive but I thought as I'm stretching chains with a hub motor they might last about a week. I think the stretching is because I have to stand on the pedals to get up some hills, and I have to cross a 4 lane freeway so need to catapult my self across when there is a gap in the traffic.
 
Congrats on the miles... now you and your bike have a relationship!


And just for anybody doing cost per mile comparisons between electric and gas, just remember that you are still paying heavy costs for the gas that aren't paid at the pump, but are paid by taxpayers for toxic site cleanup, global warming damages, etc.
 
RustyKipper said:
I think the stretching is because I have to stand on the pedals to get up some hills,

It's much more likely that it isn't stretch, but rather grit grinding away the rollers and pins from the inside. You can take a replaced chain apart and look at the stuff to see the wear lines.

Try teh wax stuff instead of oil, and see what difference it makes.


I don't use any lube at all, becuase in the heat here even the wax becomes sticky enough to pick up the flinty dust we have, and grind away at everything. Chains started lasting me a LOT longer after I stopped lubricating them (even back when I was actually doing all the work by pedalling).
 
amberwolf said:
RustyKipper said:
I think the stretching is because I have to stand on the pedals to get up some hills,

It's much more likely that it isn't stretch, but rather grit grinding away the rollers and pins from the inside. You can take a replaced chain apart and look at the stuff to see the wear lines.

Try teh wax stuff instead of oil, and see what difference it makes.

Right. Chains parts don't really stretch. Chain stretch is the combined wear of all those tiny bearing surfaces in the links. So you fight chain stretch by fighting wear.
 
True, the link does not stretch, but the little rollers and such inside get smaller, allowing each link to get every so slightly longer. Once it skips a lot on a good gear, its "stretched out" .

When I was commuting, I got to where it bummed me out that the ride was not longer. In summer, Id make it longer on purpose. Winter was cold enough to want to just get there.

To this day, I take the long cut on e bikes. To Walmart for groceries is 5 miles, but I'll take an 8 mile route to there.

To Walmart on the scooter can easily be 50 miles. :lol: Now that I'm retired, getting there is all the fun, not just half.
 
The old chains are always a good half inch longer than the new one. I tend to use sram chains that have the power link, I never really trust press in links plus they are easy(is) to take off to clean. I have to remove a few links from the new chain to shorten it, its difficult to judge how many links to remove when I lay the new chain next to the old one due to the 'stretch' so have to count the links, I have now written on the workshop wall the chain part number and how many links to remove to save me counting every time.

I will definitely look into chain wax if it has reached these shores!
 
RustyKipper said:
The old chains are always a good half inch longer than the new one.
To get that much wear on a chain in total, you'd usually have to have a really long chainline, like a recumbent. Since you don't, I'm surprised you don't snap chains from that amount of grinding thru the pins and rollers plus then standing on the pedals for climbing/acceleration.

I'd really like to see the pics of the pins/rollers--just get a good macro-enabled closeup shot in good lighting of the power link pins and it'll be representative of the kind of wear everything else has, if you don't have a chain-breaker to disassemble the other links' pins.

It also means all the sprockets / chainrings both front and rear MUST be replaced at the same time as the chains, or else you're just destroying everything faster (because the existing wear of one wears the other new one faster than if you replaced both at the same time).

Probably even the jockey wheels on the derailer are being worn out by this.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chain-wear.html

chain_wornpin.gif

chain_worn_sprockets.gif

FWIW, if you really get the sides of the links stretching, vs the rollers wearing on their ID and the pins rolling on their OD, you should put up some pics of a link of the old chain right next to a link of the new chain. With the amount of wear you're seeing in total, the change in side lengths ought to be obvious if the chains are identical brand/model, even without any kind of measuring calipers. :)



I will definitely look into chain wax if it has reached these shores!

it probably *started* over there. ;)

You can get it thru Amazon if not locally, but I'm sure your LBS carries some version of it; there are a bunch. You can look up reviews of different types on sites like SheldonBrown and various cycling forums to be sure you get the best kind for your purposes. Some are spray-on or wipe-on, and some you melt a solid wax and "soak" the chain in it. I don't know which would be better for sure, but I suspect the latter would for your purposes.

https://www.google.com/search?q=chain+wax&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
 
amberwolf said:
it probably *started* over there. ;)

You can get it thru Amazon if not locally, but I'm sure your LBS carries some version of it; there are a bunch. You can look up reviews of different types on sites like SheldonBrown and various cycling forums to be sure you get the best kind for your purposes. Some are spray-on or wipe-on, and some you melt a solid wax and "soak" the chain in it. I don't know which would be better for sure, but I suspect the latter would for your purposes.

https://www.google.com/search?q=chain+wax&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

All you need is some paraffin wax (like for canning) or some surplus plain paraffin candles (like "emergency" candles). You don't need any special formulations. In fact, it seems like some of the special formulations under-perform compared to plain ol' paraffin wax.

https://www.scribd.com/document/262044061/Velo-Friction-Facts-Chain-Lube-Efficiency-Tests

I also bought a small used crock pot from Goodwill for a few dollars and use it to heat and store the paraffin.

If the OP goes down this road, I'd suggest treating three or four chains at a time. After about 500 miles, use those handy quick links and swap in a new one. Set the old one aside to be cleaned and re-lubed in bulk once you have three or so that you've taken off.
 
One of the best tools you can have around is a chain checker... As clusters have gotten really expensive, it's the best and simplest way to stay on it. The fancy ones are mostly for show... The simple one piece metal ones work just as good, I esp like using the curvy one in the middle.

Chain_Gauges_POST.png
 
I measured the chain today and it's due for changing, the chainwheel is noisy too so better swap that out. I'll post some pictures of the old chain.
 
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