Re: 5KW 72V Controller 36 #4410 FET's, $108 #4110's $154

[zombiess]

Uninstalling 24 or 36 fets is totally unacceptable. I would not even dream of it.
-methods

No kidding, I'm doing this right now to build another 36 FET controller from a board I have with shit components on it. Time consuming, but I can't afford to buy another complete setup and a blank board right now.

[The Mighty Volt]

@ Cheeseboy: Yes.....that looks a lot like mine. Same heavy, somewhat sloppy soldering. Same wires and same connectors.

Just for reference, here is a photo of my fets and genuine MEthods fet which I rubbed between my thumb and fore-finger for a bit.



It could be they are genuine fets with bad handling.

[Cheeseboy]

Thanks The Mighty Volt, not having a real 4110 on hand to compare it to I had little to go by...

I'll not have a chance to test mine for at least another month once everything on the motorcycle is ready...

With a motoenergy 0907 how much should I be able to safely up the battery amp limit to?

120A is incredibly conservative isn't it? I am thinking 170A is still a safe current limit?

[The Mighty Volt]

120A is conservative, 80A is very conservative for a 24 Fet controller, I guess they are just covering their ass because they know we will tax the controllers.

[Kin]

Orange strip looks like high temp tape. (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/high-tempe ... 300-c-5101)

It's used to insulate your mosfets from the metal heatsink. The mosfets have a metal back, and if it was connected to the heatsinks, even though I think it's their ground, it would be a problem. Not sure if it's just because then the case would be not isolated, or if it's a problem because of shorting.

I don't see why they would leave the pieces inside the case, unless they somehow trim it at the end and find it harder to pull out the trimmings. Other manufacturers use some gray thicker material instead which I think is higher quality (at least, it's what LYEN controllers have) presumably because it conducts heat somewhat better.

[ZOMGVTEK]

That looks like Kapton film. Typically it's a vastly superior option over the standard 'gray sponge stuff', but the stuff used in that controller looks particularly thick. Possibly 2-3 mil.

I typically use 1/2 mil kapton polyimide to insulate the FET's. It's about as good as it gets, when coupled with a lapped copper bar, lapped FET backs, and a quality TIM application.

[Kin]

Thanks ZOMGTEK, that's pretty cool. I didn't realize it was better. Though I didn't realize, I suppose since it's rather thin compared to the sponge, the 'gray sponge stuff' would have to be very conductive to be better.

[binlagin]

I just bought some Kapton tape! Glad hear it has all these majical properties

[John in CR]

Warning: Many pictures!

I just received one of the 36 fet controllers with 4110 fets today, and I thought people might like to see the pictures of what I received. I'm unsure about the genuineness of the Fets, but I really have no idea. The Fets definitely do not have a copper tint to the tabs, that is just a result of the flash of the camera. The traces are kinda funny, but seem to be pretty good so I'm going to leave them as is. There are six shunts to mess with

here is the link to my photobucket if you want to see the parts of the pictures that are cut off the side
http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... eboywanna/

Eeek, mine is certainly a whole lot purdier than that, all the way down to how well the thermal paste was applied. Even the caps look different. That must have been assembled by the night crew after the day crew used up all the nice looking bus bars. I hope yours works as well as mine. I'll take pics if I open mine up again.

[John in CR]

With a motoenergy 0907 how much should I be able to safely up the battery amp limit to?
120A is incredibly conservative isn't it? I am thinking 170A is still a safe current limit?

It's impossible to know until you put it in use, because it's so motor and load and gearing dependent. Definitely don't change it without first trying it to give a baseline. Running an underpowered motorcycle is far different that on a high powered ebike. Do you even know what the phase current limit setting? My guess would be for the phase amp limit is 250-300A, so if you were comparing to a Kelly, that would be the current number for comparison. Once you're up and running, then test it easy at first, and then progressively harder with frequent stops to check motor and controller temps. Hills will be the biggest test, and long hills with partial throttle being the ultimate stress test, so do WOT first. I've blown so many controllers that I spend a lot of time learning the limits of new controllers to avoid more.

Once you get it to where it gets hot under the most strenuous use, I've found you can go at least 50% higher by adding a blower to suck fresh cool air through the inside of a controller. I block the open clear routes with cardboard, under the board and the more open side away from the fets to direct the air flow toward the heat sink bar and the fets. If you feel warm air coming out of the blower, then you're doing some good. Radial fans don't do squat compared to blowers because radial fans can't pull a pressure without high power like a ducted fan, but the little 2W blowers I use work great. They're made to pull air through a Bosch toolpack while charging and the same flow goes through the charger too to keep it cool. I put the blower at the rear of the controller, and put intake holes at the wire end only on the FET side. Of course you need some kind of shielding or angled placement to avoid water and debris from getting into the controller, but your wire end should be protected like that anyway, including wire routing to form a drip loop before entering the controller. To run max power you definitely want a good fresh air flow outside of the controller too.

John

[auraslip]

Can anyone tell me what the shipping time to the states was for one of these?

[The Mighty Volt]

Can anyone tell me what the shipping time to the states was for one of these?

3 days to Ireland from China with DHL for two of my controllers.

[John in CR]

Can anyone tell me what the shipping time to the states was for one of these?

3 days to Ireland from China with DHL for two of my controllers.

Use anyone but DHL even if it cost some time. They're fine when the shipment goes smooth, but you're screwed when it doesn't. My first 3 controller shipment spent an extra 10 days in customs and racked up fees and taxes greater than the price of the controllers including shipping, all due to DHL's screwup. They admitted it and still would do nothing at all for me. Never ever again. Just another case of BIG screwing the little guy.

Someday I'll be 100% wind and solar. Water is easy here. I'll get a sailboat and go to China to pick stuff up in person if that's where the controllers, batts and motors still are. As long as I stay below the expat exclusion, I'll be able to exclude BIG from my life. If I get sick I'll just do a mind over matter thing and heal myself. BIG is ruining the world. Do business with the little guys when you can. DHL is the biggest so they're bottom of the list for me.

John

[Kirk]

Can anyone tell me what the shipping time to the states was for one of these?

6 days by DHL to 35 miles East of the geographical center of the lower 48.

[XLR8]

Regen is just sent 5-12 volts up the regen wire on mine, which was the white wire. I'll just get my 5V from the hall supply or throttle supply, since I don't feel like opening that controller again.

I don't have a clue where an idea about regen being hard on tires came from, unless it was significantly strong regen resulting in a jerky result. With my speedier wound hubbies regen is smooth and soft, so it's a matter of getting used to how far before a stop to engage it and then add a touch of mechanical braking right at the end. Brake maintenance is now almost non-existent, my favorite part of regen. It's also a great safety feature going down hills. On very steep downhills continuous regen keeps speeds plenty slow. On grades less than -10% I have to do intermittent regen. I consistently get 8-10% regen recovery and even higher when I ride harder and faster, so that much more range.

To me regen is a must on any DD ebike. Sure it needs to be tuned properly, which may be difficult with a non-progammable controller. My Leo 36 is supposed to be set at regen force High, but if that end up too strong, but I found a jumper that connects next to my regen wire on that board which I'm hoping is to create high. If so then I can wire a switch in to give me regen high/low at the handlebars.

If that doesn't work, I'll try some other stuff. eg Another scooter controller had a wire described as regen high on the sticker, but I couldn't get regen to engage at all with that wire. I tried to ground and I tried to +5v, even +12 since it was a scooter controller. What I found was that interrupting the power to the halls is what activated regen, which may very well be what all sensored controllers do to make sure you don't even end up power and regen at the same time. That activated low force regen, and then that regen high wire connected to ground gave high force. While variable regen would be the ideal, low/high regen on command works very well.

Can anyone tell me how to make the EABS work? I have a smaller 1200W controller from Leo and I have got the cruise control and three speed features to work by using momentary switches that ground the signal. I tried grounding the EABS wire without success.

[The Mighty Volt]

Can anyone tell me what the shipping time to the states was for one of these?

3 days to Ireland from China with DHL for two of my controllers.

Use anyone but DHL even if it cost some time. They're fine when the shipment goes smooth, but you're screwed when it doesn't. My first 3 controller shipment spent an extra 10 days in customs and racked up fees and taxes greater than the price of the controllers including shipping, all due to DHL's screwup. They admitted it and still would do nothing at all for me. Never ever again. Just another case of BIG screwing the little guy.

Someday I'll be 100% wind and solar. Water is easy here. I'll get a sailboat and go to China to pick stuff up in person if that's where the controllers, batts and motors still are. As long as I stay below the expat exclusion, I'll be able to exclude BIG from my life. If I get sick I'll just do a mind over matter thing and heal myself. BIG is ruining the world. Do business with the little guys when you can. DHL is the biggest so they're bottom of the list for me.

John

lol

I do have to agree. USPS from the USA and delivered by An Post, the State postal agency in Ireland,is and always has been, best for me. China Air is then always good for me too, because, again, it works via the Irish postal services.

The Brown have been OK, but.....its still DHL-Lite. Leo seemed to quote DHL from the get-go, maybe next time I will just go basic.

PS I'll be first-mate on your boat if you ever do sail to China

[flexy]

For anyone concerned about not being able to change 3 speed programming, Methods is selling these adjustable 3speed switches.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41240

Edit; I just received mine , the speed switch connector is just two wire for a momentary switch to work in cycle mode.
Has anyone had theirs wired up for a switched mode 3speed switch, if so could you show where it is connected to the board so I could change mine

[flexy]

I have been examining the wiring in mine. One thing puzzles me - the throttle override wire for CA (green) is wired to the same pad as the ebrake input wire (white),



There should be a diode on the throttle override wire but there isn't.

Leo also said of the white ebrake input that "High level/E-ABS brake, connect it with one 12V or 48V or 60V or 72V... voltage"

The CA throttle override usually sits at 4-5V so does this mean the Ebrake input won't trigger the brake because it is always pulled down to 4-5V by the CA?

Also, couldn't voltages higher than 12V cause problems in the CA?

[John in CR]

That certainly doesn't seem like the right connection to me. The throttle override wire from the CA need to go to the same pad as the input from your throttle, and it needs a diode blocking flow from the CA. It draws down the throttle voltage, if I understand correctly.

With a name like "Throttle Override" I can understand how they misinterpreted that to be ebrake.

John

I have been examining the wiring in mine. One thing puzzles me - the throttle override wire for CA (green) is wired to the same pad as the ebrake input wire (white),



There should be a diode on the throttle override wire but there isn't.

Leo also said of the white ebrake input that "High level/E-ABS brake, connect it with one 12V or 48V or 60V or 72V... voltage"

The CA throttle override usually sits at 4-5V so does this mean the Ebrake input won't trigger the brake because it is always pulled down to 4-5V by the CA?

Also, couldn't voltages higher than 12V cause problems in the CA?

[John in CR]

Regarding High EABS, these are scooter controllers, so it expects a 12V signal from the the brake light system. Mine needed at least 8V. Leo talked about running pack voltage to that, but no way do I want to run pack voltage up to my handlebars and those cheap ebrake switches. If you want an ebrake cutout without regen activation, that wire still needs the high voltage (high as in not 5V), and you need to cut the long jumper wire on the board that activates regen. That's where you'd wire the regen switch if you wanted both, a power cut ebrake and separately activate regen while the power is cut.

John

[methods]

As far as I can tell he has been miss-populating these for some time now. Maybe 6 months back I got a message from a member showing that Leo had followed old instructions on the ebikes.ca site (a picture). I contacted Justin about it and asked him to take the old instructions down (he did). I then contacted Leo (just recently) and asked him if he was now populating correctly (i.e. diode to throttle line, not direct tap to ebrake line). He did not respond and I falsely assumed this meant that he was doing it right now.

The result of this wiring will be that the CA can only control in a binary way - either on or off. So the speed limit, current limit, LVC limit will all not work right. They will be on or off - jerky.

You need to pull that wire, run it through any diode (cathode black band toward the wire) and tap into the throttle line somewhere downstream of a 1K - 5K resistor (often easy to find on the PCB). This is the current limiting resistor for the throttle.

Anyway: My samples were paid for a week back and I expect to see them shipped soon. In parallel I have 30 kits coming from Keywin.

-methods

[flexy]

Thanks Methods, I have sent Leo an email pointing this out and a copy of the latest CA manual.
The nearest pad I could find was an unpopulated fet location this has a 9.8K resistance to the throttle line, I know on the infineon 18 fet Lyen connection method there is 2.8K between the diode and the throttle line.
If it is essential to have this resistance below 5K - could I directly wire a 2.8K resistor between the diode and the throttle wire, or does it have to be a shared one on the board?

[The Mighty Volt]

@methods: thanks for buying these controllers and thanks for the feedback which will eventually follow.

@flexy: I am opening up my 24 Mosfet tonight and will take photos to see if my controller mimics yours in its population/wiring.

Cheers.

[methods]

If it is essential to have this resistance below 5K - could I directly wire a 2.8K resistor between the diode and the throttle wire, or does it have to be a shared one on the board?

Yea - for a one off I would just solder in an axial resistor between the throttle and the controller - diode tap on the controller side of the resistor. Value is not that critical - but if you are in there measure the resistance from Throttle to Ground - this is the lower leg of a voltage divider you will be creating so choose a value that is an order of magnitude smaller than the lower leg if possible.

Ideally the lower leg would be like 50K and your inline would be something like 5K.... so that the drop does not affect the maximum achievable throttle voltage. I am sure 2K will do fine.

-methods

[gensem]

The result of this wiring will be that the CA can only control in a binary way - either on or off. So the speed limit, current limit, LVC limit will all not work right. They will be on or off - jerky.

I have a 18fet controller that probably has the same problem...