my inrunner build ? go ahead and laugh

[enoob]

VERY nice work there enoob your using a mill to get that sort of accuracy im guessing?

KiM

p.s BEER improves reflexes, thought processes and accuracy levels! i read it somewhere....or was that hinders.... :: looks at can of beer on desk ::

tell you what. ill have a few beer and try and make another and see if im better

no mill yet but ill need that to get the halbach setup . just me and these tools + drill press . had an idea, i was getting drill bit wander when i went from the mdf to the alloy sooo after layout with the protractor i did the pilot holes the same diameter as the first step on the step bit. the final step on that bit is half inch, same as the magnets . so the tip of the bit was held inline as the bit ran through the material. i had a little blow out on one or 2 and im not sure ill glue the magnets in as if you look close there is some slop BUT it was good practice none the less . my big drill press will do a better job the little one i just used seems to be worn , the chuck has some play in it so there is room for improvement. first time that drill press has been asked to do that kind of precision and shes showing her age.

[def215]

wow. you have some skill there. im in to see the finished product.

also, just a suggestion to the drillbit wander. a good way that ive figured out to stop it is to take a sharp, pointy object, i.e. nail, knife, needle, just something sharp and pointy. put it on the spot you are going to drill at. smack the top of the sharp object with a hammer making a mark(more dimple-like shape) on the metal. put the drill into the mark and drill slowly to start it then when it starts to dig in, finish off the hole. so far ive been successful with that technique to address drill wandering.

[enoob]

wow. you have some skill there. im in to see the finished product.

also, just a suggestion to the drillbit wander. a good way that ive figured out to stop it is to take a sharp, pointy object, i.e. nail, knife, needle, just something sharp and pointy. put it on the spot you are going to drill at. smack the top of the sharp object with a hammer making a mark(more dimple-like shape) on the metal. put the drill into the mark and drill slowly to start it then when it starts to dig in, finish off the hole. so far ive been successful with that technique to address drill wandering.

well thank you sir.
i used a centre punch to eliminate drill bit "walk" as its called when the bit wants to walk across the material before it begins to cut.
the drill bit wander i was experiencing was the bit flexing and trying to blow out the side as i wanted the hole on the edge if not peeking out the edge.

i did this layout first hit each spot with the punch and proceeded to do the pilot holes with a 3/16 bit. made a simple jig with the centre hole giving me a fixed distance to the drill bit and just rotated the piece to each hole and once the first hole is done i used it to key off of and get the other 17

[enoob]

ok brains i got a

Been reading up on the ironless stator as i think im getting close to needing that piece soon . problem is as im getting deeper into it im reading that iron in the core = better efficiency at low rpm . ironless core's seem to make ground as the rpm get high . if so what are the factors that determine the point where its beneficial to be ironless ? rpm alone ? over all design ?

im hoping to be able to get a kv around or under 100 per volt . 48v =4800 rpm . i highly doubt the motor will see continuous WOT so for now ill assume 3k rpm to be an average .

Does 3000 rpm benefit from an ironless stator

[Thud]

enoob,
That whole iron question is the big one in my head also. But untill I can get my mits on some flat copper in a apropriate size (without breaking my wallet) I am just going to play with cores & coil configs. I am anxious to see how a true ironless motor performs in testing though. I may have a go at building a rolling shear & cutting my own flat stock.( I see that as an advantage in an ironless design)

As for drill wander, it sucks! if anyone ever asks what is the most used tool in my shop I have to say my Drill doctor. I have the cheapest version in the line & the thing just rocks!
http://www.drilldoctor.com/pilot.asp?pg=user-guides
I bought mine at menards on sale for $50 & I use it all the time. it just works & a as a pro woodworker having sharp tools is a matter of pride.

[liveforphysics]

ok brains i got a

Been reading up on the ironless stator as i think im getting close to needing that piece soon . problem is as im getting deeper into it im reading that iron in the core = better efficiency at low rpm . ironless core's seem to make ground as the rpm get high . if so what are the factors that determine the point where its beneficial to be ironless ? rpm alone ? over all design ?

im hoping to be able to get a kv around or under 100 per volt . 48v =4800 rpm . i highly doubt the motor will see continuous WOT so for now ill assume 3k rpm to be an average .

Does 3000 rpm benefit from an ironless stator

At entry level design stages, the motor will be helped by iron at all points. You gotta really have your design tits-on before ironless starts to help at any RPM point.

[AussieJester]

enoob,
But untill I can get my mits on some flat copper in a apropriate size (without breaking my wallet)

Would 3-4ish mm thick copper plate be of use (ill get the exact measurement in the light tomorrow if need be) I have 3-4 sheets of it approx 30x20cm in size If it could be of use to your project Thud or enoob its yours. Let me know and ill get exact size for you. I have no need for it anymore it was what i used when making PC hard drive water blocks.

KiM

[enoob]

enoob,
That whole iron question is the big one in my head also. But untill I can get my mits on some flat copper in a apropriate size (without breaking my wallet) I am just going to play with cores & coil configs. I am anxious to see how a true ironless motor performs in testing though. I may have a go at building a rolling shear & cutting my own flat stock.( I see that as an advantage in an ironless design)

As for drill wander, it sucks! if anyone ever asks what is the most used tool in my shop I have to say my Drill doctor. I have the cheapest version in the line & the thing just rocks!
http://www.drilldoctor.com/pilot.asp?pg=user-guides
I bought mine at menards on sale for $50 & I use it all the time. it just works & a as a pro woodworker having sharp tools is a matter of pride.

love the drill doctor . ive learned that dull tools are a waste of time . and same here , i used up one bit doctor and had to replace it for the worn stone. comes in real handy when you need a short drill bit , just cut to size and resharpen. long long ago i used to able to sharpen one by hand but id bet that skill is buried beneath a few years of beers now.

as for some copper i better get a good idea of what you gents seek there. i got that rotor blank (the nice round one) from my local metal mart for $2.50 . they have bins with all the off cuts and i noticed varying sizes of copper flat bar . IF im right they have a size that would be great for you coils and as ive done some work for the manager of that outlet i can usually get offcuts on the cheap or free.

after sleeping on it and reading the posts you gents put up last night ill start by using rotor #1 with a stock alternator stator , local auto electric shop will do me a custom rewind on it for $50 including the wire. SOLD

im still going to make an ironless version and if i get my way ill have 2 rotors and 2 stators all of differing makup . should be fun to play with.

At entry level design stages, the motor will be helped by iron at all points. You gotta really have your design tits-on before ironless starts to help at any RPM point.

Thanks LFP . kinda where i was heading i think, i was feeling it was a little to early to jump right into ironless cores unless you folks tell me its a hands down winner . seeing i can get that stator rewound for that price (less than i was about to pay for wire to diy) ill give that a go . the fella that runs the auto electric shop is willing to sell me extra wire for my weird science and ill give the ironless a shot this week . But ya im thinkin out of the gate ill use rusty ol iron.


And kim . id love your sheet but no worries bro . something tells me the shipping would be more than we could stomach AND i think i may be on to a good lead locally. stay tuned.

i may even have it spinning this week coming up.

[enoob]

well work and the holiday rush kicked me in the jimmy this week and i did not get as far as i wanted BUT i did move it along

i took these and modified them into a magnet positioning device



like this



then i cleaned up my rotor with this



using a compass i found the north pole on one and lined them up , scoring them lightly with an arrow showing north



ive used this epoxy before on things that got hotter than the rated 100 Celsius with good results so here goes



and heres my magnet holding method. 4 to go after that one sets up and this rotor is ready to go.



and now i wait for this to come by UPS
https://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?m ... uct_id=303

after seeing all the trouble with the rc controllers AND the "kelly naked and all washed up thread" kinda figured this would be a good choice . but this does mean ill be fitting hall sensors so i guess thats next.

[Miles]

Nice to see this taking shape, enoob

[enoob]

thought you might like that magnetholding device miles not quite grabbing the end but still inline with what you were thinking i bet.

[Miles]

Yes, good technique.

[AussieJester]

Nice to see this taking shape, enoob

DITTO! Loving the 'magnet repositioning tool' to enoob
surprisingly i also have one of them!! i use it too do up the water pipes under the sink i never new
it was actually for magnet repositioning LoL...Outstanding work mate, LOVE the
ventilation holes too

KiM

[enoob]

you know this is more fun than ive had in some time.

thank you miles, AJ and the rest that have spent the time to help, thanks for your support and encouragement . if all i do here is show folks that are riding the fence whether or not to start a project like this that its not all that hard then ill be happy. never mind if the kelly survives the bench and actually makes it onto the bike.

who knew them magnet repositioning devices would work as vise grips eh ?

now to keeping the kelly alive .
this will be the first time ive ever even touched a hall sensor so any guidance will be much appreciated. so far i think i helped my self when i left the threaded bosses in the alternator case , i was close to making them holes when i was swiss cheesing that thing but had a feeling i should leave them for now . which should help explain the holes not being even at all on that job.

so im thinking if i use the threaded rod you see in that pic as stand offs supporting the old creative board with the halls sensors mounted at 120 i should be able to build in some adjustment and use the threaded rod to position the board nice and close to the rotor .



any thing jumping out and saying not gonna work

[johnrobholmes]

Your doing great so far, that is for sure! Sensors aren't a dealbreaker anyway, there are plenty of sensorless controllers.

[etard]

It just amazes me the fabrication and precision you guys get with regular laymen tools. It inspires me to try the same thing with the jumbo sprockets. I like the use of an alternator case, I might have to scour the pick a part and do the same.

[enoob]

It just amazes me the fabrication and precision you guys get with regular laymen tools. It inspires me to try the same thing with the jumbo sprockets. I like the use of an alternator case, I might have to scour the pick a part and do the same.

indeed. and thank your for the compliment . any help i can be just let me know, id love to start a little payback for what ive got from here in ES already. you may still wanna wait to see whather or not im wasting my time or not yet but so far its been fun AND i just did the math . even after getting the auto repair shop to do the rewind @ $50 im still easy under $100 so im gonna go get brand new spakedy bearings for this thing , a whopping $12 canadian and that will put me over 100 by 3.80 . got the alternator for free so that helped , when your out looking for one id suggest telling them you want one thats NFG already . and use that term . in slavage yards NFG is well known as No F#%*king Good. it will help you get a low price.

Now with that said i will tell you ive been cutting and shaping material for the better part of 25 years . lots of little things can and will affect the outcome of your time spent. best advice i can give is ask questions when your going to do something you haven't tried yet . i still do .this place is a great start.
i should warn you that quite often to build something the cost of tools if you dont have them already will almost always cost more than just purchasing existing product. Of course the up side is if you take the DIY route and commit to buying the tools you CAN often make repeat copys and turn an expense into a possible break even or better. With the added bonus of knowing who to talk to for replacement parts at cost

for what ive done so far a guy would need at least a small benchtop drill press and a hydralic press and the simple hand tools youve seen (the air tools and grinder ive used could be done with a chainsaw file and flat bastard file , just take longer and give you bigger arms) . gimmie a bit and ill edit in some photos of the diy press i got with a 10ton jack , complete getto but its done alot of work for what it is. cost is the same as it would take you to get an alternator shaft re&re'd at a shop. and again your left with the ability to rebuild a roasted motor.

here we go . this is just the stuff in the garage here at home so i figured these would be good to share . the grinder dolly on wheels i had to chuck in . for anyone working in a tight space this is a great little bit to have. i can wheel it outside when i dont want to make a mess inside and the grinder comes off with 2 bolts making it a nice little trolly for small jobs around the house.



that aluminium dust and shavings get everywhere and unlike the wood dust im used to are a pain to clean . that fresh pile you see behind the press is from what ive started today . will share soon

[AussieJester]

Now with that said i will tell you ive been cutting and shaping material for the better part of 25 years .

^^^ Something money can't buy chaps...time & SKILL.. Thankfully for the rest of us mortals there is CNC LoL

KiM

[enoob]

sorry johnrobholmes missed you on that last one. ty for the compliments .
the lean towards sensored controller is coming from my (admittedly limited) observation that sensored seems to be holding up to ebike application better. my guess is the rc stuff , since optimized for weight and size, is having trouble dealing with sync issues that their purpose built use would otherwise not subject them to.

and AussieJ i take that with pride coming from someone that can produce what you do. cnc milling machine would be fun to have but it will kind of be like a junkie having a machine around that gets high for ya, it'll be missing something.

[enoob]

well i figured while im in a holding pattern waiting on a suitable controller or more magnets i may as well keep busy . and since i intend on making more than one of these and sending one to thud. (still not kidding ) i took steps to make that happen . got a few more alternators and now i am officially on holidays till the new year so here i come.

so now it comes down to what gets here first . if its a controller then ill assemble what i have and see if it will work . If its magnets then im really considering making this a reality (after sending you one thud)


ive got more of the rotor blanks and enough magnets coming to fill them all . the stators should be just as easy to stack , small tack weld and then wind them . the old alternator case could be easily stretched with longer bolts so later i go to pick up my custom wound stator and then ill strip 3 of the old ones and see how it looks. hee hee hee

hhmm looky here . out of the 4 of them i got this one is wye all the rest were or are delta.

[def215]

does that mean its almost together enoob? looks like its starting to come together. all these pics are inspiring me...lol

[enoob]

def215 im so close i can taste it. i was supposed to have the stator last week but oh well got it now . wife has the boys and the camera gone to see santa (for the third time) at the mall . as this is the busiest shopping day of the year i opted not to go. she's a nutter.

So once the wifey gets home ill post a shot of it. other than that i just have to bore out the hole for the shaft and press the rotor on and she's ready . working on that right now.

then i need a controller . sigh. at least the folks at kelly are fast , traded repeated email with them last night and im glad i did . confirmed my thoughts on sensored although i will add this from her email about the sensorless , my question concerned the "beta unit" red lettering on their web site for the sensorless units and whether or not they were available yet.

quote
"Yes,the KSL controller has been available.But it is designed for fan,pump,compressor,not for EV.
So I guess it is not what you need.First it will run with a very low speed when the power is on immediately.
It couldn't do regen brake.

For the eBike application,we will suggest you can use the controlle with hall sensor.

Thanks,
Fany"

dont care about the regen and the soft start may be a good thing but ill play with that later. my KEB48400 is en route and apparently ill have it before xmas

[enoob]

back in the saddle folks .

the best part is these are (like a day or so ago) a few teasers . the rest now i save so i can drop a bomb or show off my failure.
first up is the stator i like with the thin lams, 1 mil lfp with 12 turns and room for more. the 10si's are more than 2 mil and only room for about 8 turns


and now im getting out the heavy gear for production those paying attention will begin to notice more than a few different units all in various stages .


sparks are cool , funny they never look as good in the photo . with that chop saw i didnt even have to bother taking the guts out .



and now please excuse the wood . its just a method to transfer the hole pattern to the aluminium holding the bearing. i chose to use the shaft from the old starter rather than the one that came with the alternator . this allowed me to get by without coupling shafts but made me rebore the rotor . at this point im doing a final fit and assembly with some pretty'ing up to do and she's a goer.



and this i thougt id throw in the mix . something tells me i may need it soon . anyone know what it is

[Thud]

That ,my friend is OBVIOUS!
Its a cone alignment jig for setting up your Light Saber bearing alignment.
I would prolly build wheels on it.
I am liking the progress.
did your controller get there yet?
I wanna a video of it spinning & winning!

[AussieJester]

Its a cone alignment jig for setting up your Light Saber bearing alignment.

HAHA...

It IS a manual MOTORCYCLE tire changer minus the grip handle...pop the top part off, drill some mount holes to suit car rims in the circular disk and it could also do a car tire ...looks like a HF model too

Next "mystery item" please enoob


KiM