Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Electric Motors and Controllers
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mdd0127
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by mdd0127 » Dec 19, 2011 11:31 am

Don't work too hard on the physical positioning of them. We're going to be posting up down in Phoenix at least for a few weeks and I have one of burtie's timing modules that's yours as soon as I find it! We're heading down there today and will probably like to get settled today but maybe tomorrow I can bring it by.
Turn it OFF!!!

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by amberwolf » Dec 19, 2011 1:19 pm

That would be very interesting and useful to have around for experimentation! I could even use it to find the right advance or retard, and then physically position them for the best neutral efficiency. Now I'll ahve to go read that thread, too.

PM'd with time/etc. details.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by whereswally606 » Dec 23, 2011 3:11 pm

Just managed to get a 80/100 working with my 48v golden motor controller. This is my first video upload to the sphere and also to youtube.

The motor is from Leaderhobby and is the EMP not turnigy.

this took me most of the day to cobble together but pretty much struck lucky with the hall wire combinations hit a good combo on the second try.



http://youtu.be/XDeOv5POAxg

hope to get it on my norco savage soon, currently looking into double freewheel acs southpaw system.
Last edited by whereswally606 on Dec 25, 2011 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Thud » Dec 23, 2011 4:27 pm

wow,
#1 are the sensor placed on the board (on the plane that the motor face is on) the ones your using for motor controll?
I have had them work for astoundingly far away...but never that out of line with the magnets themselves.

My best results were always right above the magnets & suspended off the flux can by 2-5mm's. Also I have never been able to make any consistant power with the external Halls at 17.14 deg spacings. Internal placemt at 120degs is proving dead reliable though.

Gwhy has me thinking about trying true 60deg spacings again on the 80mm motors.

good luck on your set up & keep us posted on your findings.
get some......

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Dec 23, 2011 7:44 pm

Thud,
If you want to keep the 120d timing for consistency (to work with any 120d timing controller ) then the halls needs to be 68.6degrees m this spacing requires all 3 halls facing the same way, if you space at 60d m then the middle hall will need to be flipped.
whereswally606 wrote:Just managed to get a 80/100 working with my 48v golden motor controller. This is my first video upload to the sphere and also to youtube.

The motor is from Leaderhobby and is the EMP not turnigy.

this took me most of the day to cobble together but pretty much struck lucky with the hall wire combinations hit a good combo on the second try.

hope to get it on my norco savage soon, currently looking into double freewheel acs southpaw system.
Those halls are along way from the mags !, you may have some problems once you start putting a load onto the motor but it will be very intresting to see how it goes.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by sico » Dec 23, 2011 8:51 pm

I'm pretty sure that particular golden controller has a default sensorless mode that's supposed to take over if a hall fails. Not saying that's what's happening here, but seems possible.

Simon.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by whereswally606 » Dec 25, 2011 4:55 pm

yeah i agree the halls are a long way from the motor but i know that its running sensored cause i wasnt lucky enough to have it work with my first wiring combination only the second, which is still pretty damn lucky, as ive probo mentioned spacing is 17.14 degrees and is pretty accurate measured on a printed paper template using a math geometry program called geogebra. Not sure about putting the motor under load yet. One thing i want to do first is mod one of my hua tong 72v controllers back to a 44v lvc so that i can risk that controller for a biscuit. The GM controller cost £60 pound delivered and fits in my custom mount for the scott ransom which is my only consistently road fit bike so good to keep one bike rideable, hua tongs cost about £20 when i bought them a while back so i splashed for 2. Waiting on a big 3s lipo delivery from hobbyking and feel my progress is gonna start making leaps bounds soon. Ive spent so long now reading and gathering parts to create 3 equally amazing bikes. really want some of methods hvc lvc boards but to run 3s i think means making odd 3s to 6s jst connectors.

when i get the other controllers pushing this thing (they are much more robust) i will put the motor under some load (not sure how yet) anyway i will keep you posted, thanks for being the trailblazers. oh and merry christmas. :D
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by sico » Dec 26, 2011 9:38 pm

Would love some advice on my hall related problem:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 3&start=15

Thanks,

Simon

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Jan 25, 2012 6:29 pm

I am making some revised external hall sensors modules for myself , initially these will be for the smaller outrunners 63mm dia. These will be set in cast resin ( so no problems with damp ) also the hall sensor is not the usual ss411a, the spacing will not be 17.14 so it will be a little longer going round the motor but it will not be so high, The spacing and hall combo on these new sensors is a vast improvement on the previous hall sensors. As I will be making a fair few for myself I am just putting it out there should anyone else want them please PM me if interested. There will also be a hall module for the 80mm dia motors but i need to finish testing before I finalize the spec.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Jan 26, 2012 5:13 pm

pics of the re-vamped 63mm hall sensor :
63mm hall sensor_blank.jpg
63mm hall sensor_blank.jpg (79.81 KiB) Viewed 2804 times
63mm hall sensor_blank_motor.jpg
63mm hall sensor_blank_motor.jpg (94.28 KiB) Viewed 2804 times

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Jan 27, 2012 11:21 am

completed:
complete _hall_sensor _for_63mm.jpg
complete _hall_sensor _for_63mm.jpg (70.32 KiB) Viewed 2681 times
Just need to test, and make some mounting hardware for it.

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Internal halls, which slots to use? demo

Post by Burtie » Jan 30, 2012 7:36 am

Looks pretty neat job gwhy :)


As a bit of an aside, to do with internal hall sensors:
About a year ago, there was a discussion here about fitting internal sensors in the slots, and whether it mattered which slot you started with.

The theory emerged that with a dlrk wound motor (like the 80-100), it did make a difference. Depending on which slot you started with, you would either get neutral timing, or timing which was 30 edegrees away from neutral.

( The original discussion is around here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 10#p358949 )


While preparing an 80-100 motor for use, I fitted it with two sets of halls, in adjacent slots.
Thought I would test out the above theory in a practical experiment, and the experiment seemed to illustrate the theory quite neatly:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ghL8j_5cpY


Nothing really new here, I just thought it was a nice illustration of what difference choosing the slots makes.

Burtie

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Jan 30, 2012 6:22 pm

Thanks Burtie they came out pretty well.

I have now finished the 80mm sensor . I have a idea for a universal mounting that I am going to try tomorrow, But in the mean time here is a pic for size comparison between the 63mm and 80mm sensors:
80mm-63mm.jpg
80mm-63mm.jpg (73.6 KiB) Viewed 2627 times
once I have them mounted onto a motor and confirmed that the spacing is correct on the moulds these should be a turn key solution for using hall sensors with the 2 common sizes of out runner motors without any of the usual issues of cutting out associated with the 17.14degree spacing at higher power levels also having the additional bonus of being able to adjust the initial timing.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by HumboldtRc » Jan 30, 2012 9:23 pm

Do you think the 63mm spacing will work with the new sk3's? Because they are 59mm diameter even though they still call them 63-74... I need a bunch of them for my mountainboards. Can you make another mold for the 59mm motor's so they will be perfect? Can you post more info and pictures on how you made your molds and what materials you are using for the molds and the actual sensor cast material/resin? What is the difference in the sensors you are using compaired to the s411 sensors? Thanks

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Jan 31, 2012 4:47 am

HumboldtRc wrote:Do you think the 63mm spacing will work with the new sk3's? Because they are 59mm diameter even though they still call them 63-74... I need a bunch of them for my mountainboards. Can you make another mold for the 59mm motor's so they will be perfect? Can you post more info and pictures on how you made your molds and what materials you are using for the molds and the actual sensor cast material/resin? What is the difference in the sensors you are using compaired to the s411 sensors? Thanks
It will not be to much bother to make a mold for 59mm dia with the correct spacing. The hall sensors that I am using are far less sensitive than the 411 so less likely to be triggered early from energised poles also the spacing of the sensors are directly above a slot so this also minimises the likely hood of false triggering. I bought a starter resin casting kit, the moulds are silicon ( came with the kit ). The difficult bit was working out a way of holding the sensors in place until the resin set. I didnt take any pics making the mould but I took a pic of the first one I cast in the first mould I made:
wire6.jpg
wire6.jpg (86.43 KiB) Viewed 2608 times
I have since remade this mould to make it easier to wire up and keep the sensors in place.

Edit:
When I have checked the spacing is correct on the the new mould I could let you have one to try on the new motors, you may get away with it as the sensors will only have to be a extra 2mm away from the motor can to compensate.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 01, 2012 10:54 am

Very cool guys
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My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by minuteman2k » Feb 11, 2012 6:58 am

Gwhy

When will a kit be available??

Yhis is great for all RCers

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Feb 11, 2012 1:13 pm

minuteman2k wrote:Gwhy

When will a kit be available??

Yhis is great for all RCers
I have been playing around with a smaller version complete with mount, results are good, so these smaller versions will be available to buy should anyone want them, I have tested them on 63mm dia motors and on the larger 80mm dia motors. I need to make myself around 12 of these so I will be ordering the hall sensors soon. If anyone else would like one then please express your interest before I order my halls ( in a weeks time ). I will update the thread in the for sell section of the forum https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=36149 .

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Feb 17, 2012 7:04 am

Hall sensors ordered.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Feb 22, 2012 5:42 pm

hall sensors arrived, and I have made a start :mrgreen:
On schedule to have them all finished by the end of this week.
bunch of hall sensors.jpg
bunch of hall sensors.jpg (113.52 KiB) Viewed 2912 times

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by milesinfront » Feb 22, 2012 5:58 pm

They look GREAT! :)

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Feb 27, 2012 5:05 am

I have finished them, I just need to test them all and try to right up some instructions on the best way to set them up, then they are good to go :D

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by milesinfront » Feb 27, 2012 6:08 am

I'm super keen! Got a 63mm motor on it's way from LeaderHobby... My 36v 1020 motor melted today! :D Ready to start life over with r/c power.... :twisted:

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Feb 29, 2012 12:46 pm

After much testing and trying to find a easy way of setting them up I have decided to produce the larger ones for the masses ( the larger ones were much, much easier to setup and have more predicable results ) . I will keep the smaller ones for my own projects as they do work but requires the use of a scope and a lot of patience to setup correctly. This means that the time scale have changed to get these new ones out :( but hopefully not by much. maybe a week or 2 as I already have the moulds and the halls its just a matter of finding the time to put them together. Sorry guys :oops:

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Thud » Feb 29, 2012 7:01 pm

Gwhy,
you say larger ones....does that mean 80mm motors? or another version of your 63mm units? I am eching boards to hold the halls & wires in my v2 molds myself....your way ahead of me though.
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