Adding hall sensors to outrunners

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liveforphysics
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by liveforphysics » Feb 29, 2012 8:08 pm

gwhy! wrote:hall sensors arrived, and I have made a start :mrgreen:
On schedule to have them all finished by the end of this week.
bunch of hall sensors.jpg

Wow! Those look fantastic! Nice job!
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Mar 01, 2012 3:31 am

Thud wrote:Gwhy,
you say larger ones....does that mean 80mm motors? or another version of your 63mm units? I am eching boards to hold the halls & wires in my v2 molds myself....your way ahead of me though.
Hi Thud,
The larger spaced ones :D , 63mm and 80mm but spaced at 60d

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by milesinfront » Mar 01, 2012 4:06 am

gwhy! wrote:Hi Thud,
The larger spaced ones , 63mm and 80mm but spaced at 60d
Phew! My 63mm just arrived today and I thought I was gunna have to make my own hall array...

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by tuurb » Mar 04, 2012 9:36 am

hey gwhy,

I am looking for a sensor mount for the hobbyking SK3 63-64 (as HumboldtRc).
I understood you will be selling the brackets mentioned above?

Howmuch would they cost and when are they available?

Thanks,

tuurb

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by tuurb » Mar 04, 2012 9:40 am

I am also trying to make my own brackets, wich I will 3d print,
I found on endless sphere that a lot of people use the S411A from Honeywell with 17,14° spacing so I tought to do thesame.
Below my temporally design of a bracket for use on my HK 6364 213rpm/V BLDC motor, I will be using the 150Amp HK car ESC.

I think of installing the mount at a distance of 3mm from the spinning motor:
like this the centerpoint of the sensors will be at around 4,5mm from the outside can of the motor...

Any remarks or ideas?
Maybe another sensor is better for this application?
Or other spacing?
Or another distance between sensor and motor?

(I have zero experience with adding hall sensors, BLDC motors or ESC, but I'll learn!)

Thanks in advance!

Tuurb
Attachments
hall sensor mount.jpg
hall sensor mount.jpg (18.01 KiB) Viewed 3103 times
hall sensor mount 2.jpg
3 holes for screws, one hole for the wiring
hall sensor mount 2.jpg (17.49 KiB) Viewed 3103 times

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Mar 04, 2012 12:23 pm

tuurb wrote:I am also trying to make my own brackets, wich I will 3d print,
I found on endless sphere that a lot of people use the S411A from Honeywell with 17,14° spacing so I tought to do thesame.
Below my temporally design of a bracket for use on my HK 6364 213rpm/V BLDC motor, I will be using the 150Amp HK car ESC.

I think of installing the mount at a distance of 3mm from the spinning motor:
like this the centerpoint of the sensors will be at around 4,5mm from the outside can of the motor...

Any remarks or ideas?
Maybe another sensor is better for this application?
Or other spacing?
Or another distance between sensor and motor?

(I have zero experience with adding hall sensors, BLDC motors or ESC, but I'll learn!)

Thanks in advance!

Tuurb
Hi Tuurb
your design looks very nice, the halls will be ok for the smaller motors at that distance from the can, but I would say to use a bigger spacing either 60degree but with the center hall flipped or 68.57degrees with all the halls facing the same way. The 17degree spacing placement needs to be very precise to work well , the bigger spacing is a little more forgiving. your brackets may also need 2 ways of adjustment ( distance from the motor can and timing clockwise/anti-clockwise )

cheers.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by tuurb » Mar 04, 2012 4:41 pm

thank for the reply Gwhy,

I will reconsider my design and go for the bigger 60° spacing, the clockwise and anticlockwise slipholes will be mounted on my motor bracket...

Greets, Tuur

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Mar 17, 2012 5:46 pm

Ok, I have now made a couple of hall sensors for sale ( I will make them as (and if) people still want them ). The hall sensors for the 80mm motors are the larger type ( around 60d ) these work well and are pretty easy to setup (unlike the smaller spacing ) I just need to write up some instructions, as for the 64mm motors the smaller spacing works just as well as the 60d so the hall sensor will remain the smaller type ( again I just need to write up some setup instructions ). So these are now officially complete for the 80mm motors and the 64mm motors.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by spkpn » Mar 30, 2012 1:40 pm

Hello,

I might be interested in halls that can be mounted to the turnigy 80-100 series motor. But only if a mechanically untalented guy like me can acomplish the job ;). What is the price?


rgrds,
spkpn

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Mar 30, 2012 2:26 pm

spkpn wrote:Hello,

I might be interested in halls that can be mounted to the turnigy 80-100 series motor. But only if a mechanically untalented guy like me can acomplish the job ;). What is the price?


rgrds,
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Please send me a PM so I get put you on the list and answer and questions that you have.
Cheers, They are £25.00 plus P+P

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by asifjahmed » Sep 24, 2012 1:58 pm

Hello -

This is the nest thread on the `net for sensoring brushless outrunners it seems! Anyway, I am still waiting for my sensored speed controller to arrive (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... r_ESC.html) but in the meantime I got busy drawing the necessary CAD parts and 3d printing them. I am using the 17.14 degree spacing. The motor is a Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 6463-168kv. Signals look nice and clean on the scope. Will keep you posted!

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by 2moto » Sep 24, 2012 4:18 pm

I haven't read the entire thread (too long!!) so this may be blasphemy. Going back a few years, at a brushless motor company we experimented with various types of commutation sensors on brushless motors. By some margin, optical sensors produced far better accuracy which a good controller can use to its benefit for switching phases. Hall effects, although convenient and cheap, have various drawbacks, some of which have already been highlighted in this thread (from the bits I did read).

For this motor, I would design an optical interrupter type arrangement which will work well. Of course, there are dust and environmental issues to solve. But still, for the performance advantage, I would chose this direction. With good shielding, you should be able to get something to work where marks on the spinning "bell" are being picked up by reflective optical sensors located around the periphery.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Miles » Sep 24, 2012 4:28 pm


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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Sep 24, 2012 4:31 pm

2moto wrote:I haven't read the entire thread (too long!!) so this may be blasphemy. Going back a few years, at a brushless motor company we experimented with various types of commutation sensors on brushless motors. By some margin, optical sensors produced far better accuracy which a good controller can use to its benefit for switching phases. Hall effects, although convenient and cheap, have various drawbacks, some of which have already been highlighted in this thread (from the bits I did read).

For this motor, I would design an optical interrupter type arrangement which will work well. Of course, there are dust and environmental issues to solve. But still, for the performance advantage, I would chose this direction. With good shielding, you should be able to get something to work where marks on the spinning "bell" are being picked up by reflective optical sensors located around the periphery.

No, no, no, must resist, must resist! Too many projects!
The optical route has been done and do work ( there is a thread about it, and the optical kits are for sell), but there were to many problems associated with the optical route for me due to real life conditions that these motors are run in, I have used halls for nearly all my projects as hall sensors give predicable results and have worked in all the real life conditions I have subjected the motors to.

edit: there you go Miles have found the thread :mrgreen:

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by 2moto » Sep 24, 2012 4:35 pm

Ah, good, I can now cross that project off my list. :D

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by HumboldtRc » Dec 06, 2012 7:41 pm

Should I be installing the hall sensors with the writing facing in or out? They seam to work fine with the writing facing in... But I could not figure out which would be ideal...

Image

The pictures in this thread show his motor with the writing facing out from what I can tell by the color of the wires on the sensors...?

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =9&t=45849

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by full-throttle » Dec 06, 2012 7:56 pm

HumboldtRc wrote:Should I be installing the hall sensors with the writing facing in or out?
Doesn't matter as long as they are separated by 120 electrical degrees.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by HumboldtRc » Dec 06, 2012 8:12 pm

Thanks, that's what I was thinking while I was testing them, both sideds seamed to respond the same.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by crazyscow » Jan 19, 2013 6:26 am

I had a question, i sadly have a outrunner with 24 stator and not enough space to fit the hall sensor horizontally, would it work if i use vertical?

incase i would want to fit them outside, how far would it have to be away from the engine?

cheers

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by gwhy! » Jan 19, 2013 7:15 am

crazyscow wrote:I had a question, i sadly have a outrunner with 24 stator and not enough space to fit the hall sensor horizontally, would it work if i use vertical?

incase i would want to fit them outside, how far would it have to be away from the engine?

cheers
I don't think a hall sensor will work well enough if it was mounted vertical ( but I could be wrong, I don't think anyone has tried it ). If mounting them on the outside of the motor then I normally have around 3-5mm space ( this space needs to be taken into acount when working out the distance between each hall sensor ), hope this helps.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Thud » Jan 19, 2013 7:25 am

Sideways would be a bad idea.

On an outside set up, I typically place them 2mm off the can. You would be surprised at how faraway from the motor will still work. But closer is better.
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by crazyscow » Jan 19, 2013 8:05 am

ya i think im going to try and mount them outside, but do you think if i have 24stators and 28 magnets, that i could use the same angle of 17.14 degrees? because i was thinking of calculating 120 divided by (magnets 28 / 2) which would give me an angle of 8.57 degrees.
or do i use 120 divided by (28/4) which would give me the 17.14 degrees.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by NickB » Jan 19, 2013 10:49 am

I'm trying to fit internal hall sensors to a turnigy rotomax 100cc.
The slots in between where to small to fit the hall sensors so I used the dremel to mill them out a bit.
But then I realised that by milling the stator I will short out the lamelles (don't know if this is the word :)).
By measuring with a multimeter the first 10 lamelles or so are shorted.
Does this make the motor unusable?
I noticed the sensors do fit under the slots next to the windings (picture), is this also a possibility?

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Arlo1 » Jan 19, 2013 11:02 am

NickB wrote:I'm trying to fit internal hall sensors to a turnigy rotomax 100cc.
The slots in between where to small to fit the hall sensors so I used the dremel to mill them out a bit.
But then I realised that by milling the stator I will short out the lamelles (don't know if this is the word :)).
By measuring with a multimeter the first 10 lamelles or so are shorted.
Does this make the motor unusable?
I noticed the sensors do fit under the slots next to the windings (picture), is this also a possibility?
From factory it is common to have all lams conduct if you mesure from one end to the other with a multimeter the coating they have on them usaly does not realy stop them from conducting. You can try to spin it up to max rpm and see if the part you machined is getting very hot.
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by NickB » Jan 19, 2013 11:34 am

Ok have to test that. The other lams didn't seem to be shorted when I measured these.
Is mounting the sensor in this way also a possibility?

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