Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Electric Motors and Controllers
Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 13, 2015 12:48 am

This is a long thread and I don't want to search all night ..but what are the benefits of hall sensors ? More efficient at low rpm and high? Do they make things quieter? On my skateboard the ESC brakes are loud and I am hoping sensors could make the braking quieter. Is it possible?

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by marcexec » Sep 13, 2015 6:33 am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:This is a long thread and I don't want to search all night ..but what are the benefits of hall sensors ? More efficient at low rpm and high? Do they make things quieter? On my skateboard the ESC brakes are loud and I am hoping sensors could make the braking quieter. Is it possible?
In short, Hall sensors enable the use of generic Chinese e-bike/e-scooter controllers, mostly Xiechang (and derivates like Greentime, Lyen's modded ones) and better startup behavior.
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by mpb » Aug 08, 2016 4:09 am

hello all I apologize for posting on an older thread however this thread is legendary and everyone on it is as well... well at least for me..
anyhow I have a question for the experts... i have a decent understanding of hall sensors and what now however I want you all to confirm my decision i have made before a burn a 300 dollar motor or 4.

the motor im adding the hall sensors too has 36 teeth and 42 magnets if i am not mistaken all i half to do is place the sensor between the stator teeth of matching phase windings (AhallaBbCcAaBbCc...)every 12 teeth to accomplish 120 degrees of spread correct? does the fact that it has 42 teeth matter? also the motor is currently wound in delta and i will be changing it to wye(simple i hope to change the kv from 135 to 70ish) this further helps my placement of every 12 teeth between matching phase winding correct???

again thank you all for the help and i hope i explained this clear enough

also could anyone supply me with a good wireing diagram for me to use on the halls im finding some wierd ones and dont want to do this wrong.

thanks!!!

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by amberwolf » Aug 08, 2016 3:59 pm

If you want to do 120 degree spacing, you could just put them in an equilateral triangle around the hub. AFAIK that would work the same. (it is what I did for a big BLDC powerchair motor; there's a thread under that name for it).

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by mpb » Aug 08, 2016 8:06 pm

So as long as its 120 degrees apart it doesnt matter how many magnets there are roatating sround them?? Shoukd i be sure to place them between windings on the same phase or does it not matter so they could be between aa hall bb ??

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by amberwolf » Aug 08, 2016 9:35 pm

Sorry I couldn't help.

I dont' know--I just put them literally 120 degrees apart between stator teeth, for ease of assembly, and it worked. I don't know that would happen on every motor, but I would expect it should. IIRC I just taped them down at first to test it.


AFAIK if you have a 60 degree setup and want it to be 120, you can just invert one of the hall signals, and vice-versa, like some threads on ES discuss and thsi page amongst others found ona quick google search.
http://www.parkermotion.com/dmxreadyv2/ ... estion=175

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Danny Mayes
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Danny Mayes » Aug 08, 2016 11:23 pm

As long as they are 120 deg apart it will work, that is just place them at 3rds around the stator like AW mentioned. I did this on a few 80/100 outrunners ans it worked well. Where it is on the winding will affect the timing, as in if it is advanced, neutral or retarded. I remember Thud saying advanced was helpful on high performance applications but otherwise go neutral. I don't think it matters how many magnets there are...

Taping them in like AW mentioned is handy. I used a silicone to begin with in a similar fashion and then high temp epoxy once i was happy I had it right. You can measure your no load current to get an idea if things are right or not...

Hope this helps?

D

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by mpb » Aug 09, 2016 1:14 am

awsome!! thank you very much for your assistance it is very much appreciated. do you happen to have a schematic on how i should wire the hall?

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Danny Mayes » Aug 09, 2016 1:19 am

Do you have the data sheet for the hall sensor? You just parallel the + and - to the 3 sensors and then run out your signal wire. That will give you your 5 wires for the controller. 5v + and - and your 3 signal wires :)

D

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by mpb » Aug 09, 2016 1:31 am

i apologize for the second post i have another question i hope you all can help with... my motor is 135kv u8 motor i am going to wire it wye and get around 70ish to 80ish kv however is this going to change the amount of voltage this motor is going to require to pull the amount of amps it was rated at befor?? will winding this motor this way have any effect on my sensor setup? i apologize for getting a but off subject but there is a great group of people on this thread whose heads i would like to poke :twisted:

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Danny Mayes » Aug 09, 2016 2:03 am

Sensor set up is the same no matter how you have it terminated, you should be fine there.

The rest I am not the man to answer you, but how much current it will pull is going to be a function of your load ultimately. This is where you gearing/reduction is important...

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by mpb » Aug 09, 2016 3:17 am

this will be a hub motor

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by amberwolf » Aug 09, 2016 3:32 am

hubmotor for what size wheel?

if it's a bike wheel then say 300-400rpm, with 80rpm per volt, means you're only running it on a few volts max. That's gonna be a whole lotta current. :shock:

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by Danny Mayes » Aug 09, 2016 3:36 am

I think it is an RC outrunner AW. mpb?
Last edited by Danny Mayes on Aug 09, 2016 9:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by mpb » Aug 09, 2016 4:09 am

sorry for hijacing i started my own thread that may clear a few things up. thank you all!! https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=82545

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by mpb » Aug 10, 2016 4:07 am

continue as normal i apologize :wink:

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 01, 2017 8:00 pm

ES member electricgod adds halls to several different motors, good pics included...

Astro Flight 3220
Alien Power 120-90 (large pancake RC)
Turnigy CA-80
Alien Power 80-100

"Adding halls to an Astro Flight 3220 inrunner"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=84112

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 01, 2017 8:58 pm

spinningmagnets wrote:ES member electricgod adds halls to several different motors, good pics included...

Astro Flight 3220
Alien Power 120-90 (large pancake RC)
Turnigy CA-80
Alien Power 80-100

"Adding halls to an Astro Flight 3220 inrunner"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=84112
Thanks for the props!

Sorry everyone for stealing anyones thunder. It wasn't deliberate.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by zeroonea » Dec 04, 2017 10:38 pm

Hello, how to wire 3 hall sensor for 6pin ESC board? My ESC board has 6pin port for hall sensors. I don't know how to wire them. Usually wiring 3 hall sensors will have 5pin.

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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by zeroonea » Dec 05, 2017 1:12 am

Nevermind, I figured out. Another question: Is it work if I place hall sensor facing to magnet like picture below? I cannot put it in between teeth because hall sensor bigger than the gap.

Image

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Is it work if I place hall sensor head (not a side) facing to magnet?

Post by zeroonea » Dec 07, 2017 12:36 pm

Is it work if I place hall sensor facing to magnet like picture below? I cannot put it in between teeth because hall sensor bigger than the gap.

Image

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Re: Is it work if I place hall sensor head (not a side) facing to magnet?

Post by fechter » Dec 07, 2017 3:28 pm

Not likely. The sensor chip inside the hall only detects in one direction.
Hall Sensor orientation.JPG
Hall Sensor orientation.JPG (32.95 KiB) Viewed 62 times
If you place them like shown in your picture, There isn't much magnetic flux going in that direction. It might work but I'd think it would be real prone to timing errors at high load.

It looks like you have enough room to place them in the slot. You might need to nudge the windings a little to fit them in. Use a piece of wood (popsickle stick) or plastic to push the windings, being careful not to nick the insulation. Even if it doesn't go all the way in, as long as the center of the sensor is at the edge of the iron and facing the magnets, it should be OK.
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Re: Adding hall sensors to outrunners

Post by ThierryGTLTS » Dec 08, 2017 6:19 am

Try, because it may work.

I've done that with a TMotor U8 and it works fine.

Thierry

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