12 kw rc motor

Electric Motors and Controllers

Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby bearing » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:11 am

Lebowski wrote:real time motor current measurement so that you can switch on the voltage earlier than necessary, such
that the delayed current is actually exactly on time. This, and driving the motor with it's own EMF voltage, is all included in my 30F4011
controller build :D (see other threads)


Thats impressive, sounds pretty ahead of the competition. Does any of the affordable commercial controllers do that?

I was skipping through your post, but didn't find any related to this subject. Could you give me a link?
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Lebowski » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:45 am

bearing wrote:
Lebowski wrote:real time motor current measurement so that you can switch on the voltage earlier than necessary, such
that the delayed current is actually exactly on time. This, and driving the motor with it's own EMF voltage, is all included in my 30F4011
controller build :D (see other threads)


Thats impressive, sounds pretty ahead of the competition. Does any of the affordable commercial controllers do that?

I was skipping through your post, but didn't find any related to this subject. Could you give me a link?


I posted some stuff on the 'not simple bldc controller' thread, think about page 16 onwards. Once I get the motor
running I think I'll start a new thread about it. There's also a picture here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33403&start=30

showing some of the output you can get from my controller during the calibration phase
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:01 pm

Lebowski wrote:
Arlo1 wrote:Yup thats where im heading. With the not simple brushless controller!


How are you getting along with the programming and stuff ?

Just finished my pic kit lessons, finished an led iluminated work bench for my basement, and just finsihed a couple other projects that had to be done. So I will be back on it very soon and its my 1 winter goal to get it working.
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Nuts&Volts » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:00 pm

Just hoping that this motor is still alive and will some day be produced ... I realize some of the engineers are busy with the Rimac EV project

I don't mean to bring back a dead thread, but is there any progress with this motor?

-Kyle
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:30 pm

Nuts&Volts wrote:Just hoping that this motor is still alive and will some day be produced ... I realize some of the engineers are busy with the Rimac EV project

I don't mean to bring back a dead thread, but is there any progress with this motor?

-Kyle

The motor is basicaly good to go there is just not much for controllers to run it. I anyone wants to help train me with C programin and dspic chips it will help for sure! Marko called me and they do have something going on behind cosed doors! The thing is right now having a motor like this is like having a yaught with a bath tub to use it in! Its. Totaly worthless till a cheep but good controller comes along!!! I plan to have mine done soon!
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Nuts&Volts » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:14 pm

Arlo, thanks for the heads up about this motor still being alive. Don't worry I have been keeping up on the colossus happenings. I want one of these in anticipation of your's (Arlo's), Ricky's or Leb's DIY 3-phase controllers. Or a 144V Kelly if Splinter's Kelly holds up to this beast of a motor.
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby tostino » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:21 pm

I've PM'd Marko a few times trying to get in line to buy one, since I am starting up on my ninja 250 conversion project again. I am building two 36 fet infinion controllers to power the colossus I hope to buy.

Still not received any reply from him. If anyone else has info on how to get one of these, i'd really appreciate it.
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:55 pm

tostino wrote:I've PM'd Marko a few times trying to get in line to buy one, since I am starting up on my ninja 250 conversion project again. I am building two 36 fet infinion controllers to power the colossus I hope to buy.

Still not received any reply from him. If anyone else has info on how to get one of these, i'd really appreciate it.

For this motor I'd recomend a controller with ~40khz pwm and phase amp monitering. So even two 36fet controllers may not work well. I have experimented with splitting a 36 fet controller in two but... Anyways me ricky and lebowski have great controller projects on the go!
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby tostino » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:00 pm

Eh, i'm not too worried. If I blow them up, I blow em up.
If nothing else, by the time I get everything together and blow the controllers up, there will be better options I can buy available, because right now as far as I know there isn't.

Do you know anything about the motor availability though?
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:14 pm

tostino wrote:Eh, i'm not too worried. If I blow them up, I blow em up.
If nothing else, by the time I get everything together and blow the controllers up, there will be better options I can buy available, because right now as far as I know there isn't.

Do you know anything about the motor availability though?

This thread should get locked till it gets sorted out! We cant dyno or test colossus under hi load untill the controller thing is sorted out!!!! So they will not be for sale till afte that! I have a couple prototypes and i have blown up a lot of shit testing them!! Remember you may turn on your two controllers and turn the throttle slowly to hear a small pop then nothing!!! That has happened to me over ten times alone!
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby crap » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:08 pm

The power capabilities could be verified by running it as a generator with a common resistive load instead of waiting for a working controller, if that is all that's needed. It's admirable but perhaps out of place for the designers to take responsibility for finding the perfect controller. Especially since a low controller price seems to be so important, lets not forget that there may be several customers willing to pay for a kelly controller or better. The motor is after all big enough to be useful in larger electric vehicles (motorcycles, gokarts, buggys, small cars...) where the price of the rest of the equipment may dwarf that of the motor and controller.

If the continous power really is 12kW or higher, and a kelly controller can be made to work, it is no doubt usable in electric cars, where the price of a kelly is not an issue. In fact, for the european DIY EV market, EMC certificates are often required. Thus anything cheaper may not even be an alternative, since it likely lacks this important property.

Like I said, it is admirable of you to continue seeking verification of the motors capabilities and controller compatibility, but perhaps not entirely necessary. As soon as someone has managed to push it to satisfying power with whatever controller, I hope it will be made available.
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:31 pm

crap wrote:The power capabilities could be verified by running it as a generator with a common resistive load instead of waiting for a working controller, if that is all that's needed.
I belive this was done a long time ago.
crap wrote: It's admirable but perhaps out of place for the designers to take responsibility for finding the perfect controller. Especially since a low controller price seems to be so important, lets not forget that there may be several customers willing to pay for a kelly controller or better. The motor is after all big enough to be useful in larger electric vehicles (motorcycles, gokarts, buggys, small cars...) where the price of the rest of the equipment may dwarf that of the motor and controller.

If the continous power really is 12kW or higher, and a kelly controller can be made to work, it is no doubt usable in electric cars, where the price of a kelly is not an issue. In fact, for the european DIY EV market, EMC certificates are often required. Thus anything cheaper may not even be an alternative, since it likely lacks this important property.

Like I said, it is admirable of you to continue seeking verification of the motors capabilities and controller compatibility, but perhaps not entirely necessary. As soon as someone has managed to push it to satisfying power with whatever controller, I hope it will be made available.

Kelly still has issues.... SO Kelly is out! There is NO controller ATM for this motor NOTHING that anyone has proven so untill then this motor is NOT going to be avalible!
Splinter has made a kelly work at very low power levels but why not just buy a cheeper better lighter smaller more efficient motor if you are going to run lower power levels.
Hall and marko have a video of running a VW bug with this motor and a kelly and it was miss firing to get it going. It would have only taken a few more miss fires them WHAM fried controller! We REALY REALY need to lock this thread till a controller gets sorted out! You guys have no Idea what its like to buy this motor and have it sit as a $1000+ paper weight! Thats just eats controllers. Even if you try to use a expensivre sevcon it WILL NOT WORK!
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby c_a » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:08 pm

What is the real problem with the kellys?

I am building a 40kW peak motor and I like to use a kelly for the first tests...
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:31 pm

I have not used a kelly. I dont like their layout. I think I can build better. Ask luke (liveforphysics) He has blown up lots of them. If you want reliable power use something else.
Kely uses voltage drop of the fet to moniter phase amps so... Better then china controllers for that reason but with a worse cap location! The powerstage layout is the most important part of a bldc controller other then the programing!
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby adam78 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:15 pm

This controller might be able to run colossus but costs around 1800 USD and is only rated for 15s LiPo

The controller has been used in a small e-car they converted using a huge 40kW BLDC outrunner.
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:21 pm

adam78 wrote:This controller might be able to run colossus but costs around 1800 USD and is only rated for 15s LiPo

The controller has been used in a small e-car they converted using a huge 40kW BLDC outrunner.

This motor needs to spin past 6000 rpm to get to its max efficiency. That meens at least 20s lipo or rewind i for lower inductance and higher kv? We need a 100v 600-1000 amp controller! Im working on it :)
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby markobetti » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:52 am

Arlo , Splint i just may have invented the wind cooling system patent haahah :).... anyway its air-cooled...JUST TO LET YOU KNOW we re not stoping this developement...
http://youtu.be/MeNk2Fcag0w
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby SplinterOz » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:06 am

Nice... One question... does it still have the same bolt pattern for mounting? and the same diameter?


=======
Actually that was two
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:45 pm

I love you guys. Now someone fly to canada and help me finish this damb controller!!!
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby markobetti » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:39 am

SplinterOz wrote:Nice... One question... does it still have the same bolt pattern for mounting? and the same diameter?


=======
Actually that was two



I will check , but dont worry - i have a solution for you to mount on the same place if required . One small change is needed but you will be able to use the same expensive and beautiful mount .

Best RGDS,

Marko
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby markobetti » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:40 am

Thanks Arlo , same goes for you :)
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby markobetti » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:12 am

SplinterOz wrote:Nice... One question... does it still have the same bolt pattern for mounting? and the same diameter?


=======
Actually that was two


Diameter same
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby dangerzone » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:56 am

c_a wrote:What is the real problem with the kellys?

I am building a 40kW peak motor and I like to use a kelly for the first tests...


And which controller did you have in mind to couple with that..?
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby Arlo1 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:13 am

Marko is working on testing a couple controllers as am I. All my spare time is now dedicated to making this motor fly!
Thanks Justin of http://www.ebikes.ca/
Also a thanks to Methy at http://www.methtek.com/ :)
And Dave who has some good deals on STUF
RC lipo and most other types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages while charging and discharging.
Batteries of all kinds need respect they can burn your house down, so don't sleep with them under your bed or any other were you cant afford smoke or fire!
[color=#FF0000][b][size=150]Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: 12 kw rc motor

Postby dangerzone » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:30 am

Arlo1 wrote:Marko is working on testing a couple controllers as am I. All my spare time is now dedicated to making this motor fly!


It would be nice to find something strong enough for that kind of rpm yet affordable at the same time... ;)
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