12 kw rc motor

[straton]

Hi Guys

Heres the deal: i will probably be able to get two 12 kw rc motors .
SPECS : 60V 200A = 12 KW
75 KV
also - got a deal to put best quality bearings and ADD hall sensors

QUESTION : 1.WHAT KIND OF A REDUCTION HAS TO BE ADDED FOR NOT OVER HEATING THE MOTOR
2. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT KV LIKE THAT

ALSO , FOR ALL YOU GUYS THAT ARE CONSTANTLY INVENTING NEW STUFF , I WILL BE GLAD TO PUT LINK
OF THE FACTORY AND PRICE OF THE MOTOR AFTER TESTING . BELIVE IT OR NOT : AROUND 250 BUCKS

3. BECAUSE THIS FACTORY IS VERY GOOD , I DONT ASK MANY QUESTIONS . DUE TO BAD ENGLISH I WASNT ABLE
TO UNDERSTAND THIS BUT I THINK SHE TOLD ME THAT THERE IS PLANETARY GEAR ON TOP OF THE MOTOR , SO
THAT BRINGS US TO SECOND QUESTION : THE MOTOR IS TOO SMALL TO HAVE GOOD PLANETARY REDUCTION INSIDE : YES , NO ?

Hi ! Can you get me a link to purchase motor ? thanks !!!

[liveforphysics]

Hi ! Can you get me a link to purchase motor ? thanks !!!

So far, we've had them send the initial prototype, then Hal9000 evaluated the motor and made his list of suggested changes (like adding sensors, water cooling, temp sensor, etc), and in a very short time they were able to incorporate most of the desired changes, and sent Hal9000 6 more prototypes to be tested/evaluated.

We are now at the stage of waiting on that second testing/evaluation.

I think there will be a rush on these motors of no less than 250 orders on the first day they become available.

It's so cool that Mark and Hal are spending there own time and money to refine these monsters and work with the factory to fine-tune them to our specific needs before we order them, rather than the standard china group-buy, which are often full of unpleasant surprises, and people generally end up less-than-pleased with the results. Hal and Mark are going through that stage for us so we all just get to play with refined kick-ass motors setup perfect for EV use.

A huge thanks Hal and Mark for your time, money, labor etc in making this all possible!

[Arlo1]

Yeh luke just put things in perspective for me and yes THANK YOU GUYS for all your work and investment! this would have been another randome groop buy where there is alot of suprises without your help! I will try to be more paitent.

[olaf-lampe]

Yes, this motor really seems to attract people, literally!
There are many wanna_have_one-posts coming from guys with only a few posts here at ES.
I wonder, where else we could spread the news?
For the average EV-bike driver it's way to powerful.
DIYelectriccar would be interested for sure, are there other EV-motorbike forums?
I like the idea of the electric sailplane/paraglider/hangglider. If you've seen these guys with their screaming 2-stroke vibrators in the backpack, I'm sure they'd be glad to have a more silent direct drive motor.
Also Jeremie could spread the word to the boat-community?

Gentlemen, start the PR machine!
The more orders, the cheaper. Especially when a whole seacontainer could be used. OK, for those who can't wait some weeks, it's a bit more expensive shipping airfreight. ( are there special shipping rules for those strong magnets? )
For the US or Australian guys it would be best to have a local dealer, who receives their orders directly from china, without the timewasting shipping to croatia.

-Olaf

[MN Driver]

Yes, this motor really seems to attract people, literally!
There are many wanna_have_one-posts coming from guys with only a few posts here at ES.
I wonder, where else we could spread the news?
For the average EV-bike driver it's way to powerful.
DIYelectriccar would be interested for sure, are there other EV-motorbike forums?
I like the idea of the electric sailplane/paraglider/hangglider. If you've seen these guys with their screaming 2-stroke vibrators in the backpack, I'm sure they'd be glad to have a more silent direct drive motor.

I've been reading endless-sphere for quite some time now and watching videos that doctorbass and liveforphysics for quite some time now, recently created the account and I'll use this as my cue to make a first post here.

I like the idea of having a modular motor for an electric car and the price is attractive, I'll have to change my plans from using a Curtis 1238-7501 (130v max) AC controller with an HPEVS/HPGC AC50 motor or one of the Warfield Warp motors with a Soliton 1. The price is attractive and it allows me to start small and upgrade until I either run out of space in length or am satisfied with the performance in a 1700 pound car with excellent aerodynamics. I've looked at the electric car options for brushless DC and never really came across much out there that was easy to obtain and cost effective with the amount of power required to move a car on the highway. A handful of these might just be the brushless DC answer to add to my list of choices once everything is worked out. I've been paying close attention. For everyone involved, thanks for putting the efforts to getting this motor project started.

[dozentrio]

Code: Select all

Gentlemen, start the PR machine!
The more orders, the cheaper. Especially when a whole seacontainer could be used. OK, for those who can't wait some weeks, it's a bit more expensive shipping airfreight. ( are there special shipping rules for those strong magnets? )
For the US or Australian guys it would be best to have a local dealer, who receives their orders directly from china, without the timewasting shipping to croatia.

Perhaps it will inspire more people to order right away, if I suggest that when the popularity of this motor grows, the price may very well increase to reflect its value. We may not always enjoy the excellent price and relative ease of acquiring one. So, (when they are ready) get one while they're hot! Personally I have no immediate use for one, however I don't feel like missing my chance. Add to that, my order will encourage the development of EV technology, by showing there is demand for it.

[Hyena]

Wow, I don't normally frequent the motor tech forum but just read all 24 pages of this thread after taking to AussieJester.
Awesome work Mark and Hal, I look forward to seeing the videos and outcomes of your testing.
Put me down for one too when they're ready.
I'll also need a 200w bafang front wheel hub for when I want to cruise past police

[HAL9000v2.0]

OK. This is a monster. The torque is incredible. I made just few runs and for serious testing I must make some stronger mount.

After three hours of disassembling rewireing inside of the motor and assembling first I did one run with HXT sensorless 120A controler on 12V to measure no load current. It was 6.4A on 12,5V. Phase current was 3,9A AC and 1,8A DC.
RPM I couldn't measure because my RPM device suddenly drop dead...but is sounds like 75KV is about right.

Then I did test with Methods 100V100A infineon on 24S headway. (78V) and the result is : OH MY GOOOOD!!!!
It picks up speed more the duble faster then big turnigy. The torque is incredible I am not sure how will I measure it. I must make some kind of lever to measure it on regular scale.
It sounds so powerful that I havent got the balls to give WOT. On video it is less the 20% of throttle maximum...
Enjoy untill I make some bigger stand.
I plan to connect two motors together, one run with infineon and other connect to 20-30 70W bulbs and to cool with water one and not cool other and measure difference in temperature. I think with that system I will get exact numbers how much it can take. For now even monster of Methods controller looks like a joke.
The motor might just be near to perfect motor for me because I don't know how to measure max power
Needles to say that there was no temperature difference after 10 minutes of running...

12V HXT test video


first Infineon test 72V video


Second Infineon test 72V video


Some pictures:

[countermeasure]

OK. This is a monster. The torque is incredible. I made just few runs and for serious testing I must make some stronger mount.

Then I did test with Methods 100V100A infineon on 24S headway. (78V) and the result is : OH MY GOOOOD!!!!
It picks up speed more the duble faster then big turnigy. The torque is incredible I am not sure how will I measure it. I must make some kind of lever to measure it on regular scale.

Hal. Thanks for the hard work. As for the torque measurement, perhaps you can mount a piece of wood to the motor, drill a hole, and hook a fishing scale to the wood. A 0-50 lb fish scale will do nicely. Then you measure the distance between the hookup point to center of motor. A voila, instant torque measurement.

Torque = length of lever arm x force. Force is given by fish scale. Length is distance from center of motor to where fish scale is hooked up.

A cool test to do is to run the motor at maximum stall torque and see if it'll blow up. Or the speed controller will blow up. Given motor is water cooled, I suspect speed controller will go first.

[swbluto]

Do you know what the phase resistance is? If not, can you measure it?

(Phase resistance, along with the kV and no-load current is good enough for simulating. The torque constant is directly related to the kV, so torque can be calculated or simulated. It'd also be handy to have a no-load current measurement at another voltage, so that the no-load current line can be made and used to predict no-load current at other voltages.)

[liveforphysics]

Not being able to measure the power is the best problem to have with a motor.

Most of the RC guys use an alternator for a loadbank, but that's not going to cut it for your motor at all. lol

I use groups of 500watt halogen flood light type bulbs for loadbanks sometimes, because you can buy them in 8packs for like $5.


For this application though, I think something more like a 5hp industrial induction motor with the phase leads all shorted together should work pretty well. They can handle 30hp of heat for a minute or two before they start to melt down, and are safe to operate at pretty damn high temps because they have no magnets, so the only temp limiter is when the insulation melts, which will be above 200C.


Have you seen the trick where they mount the motor mount plate on a pivot, where one side rests upon a scale, so it can actively measure the torque of the motor?

Really though, if we can just calculate Kt, and you can find a slope for no-load current vs voltage, we should be able to get pretty accurate predictors of motor performance without needing too complicated of a dyno setup. If you can get about 4 variables of a motor solved with reasonable accuracy, we can calculate the remaining mystery.

This is very exciting stuff Hal! Thank you so much for your work!

[liveforphysics]

A cool test to do is to run the motor at maximum stall torque and see if it'll blow up. Or the speed controller will blow up. Given motor is water cooled, I suspect speed controller will go first.

At a stall, with this low of winding resistance, no controller I'm aware of would outlast this monster. The HXT motors I run have destroyed every controller they've met, except the Methy infinions, but they get hot enough to cook-on when I blast up a long hill or something, and they are sharing the load between two of them.

This motor is something like 3-4x the big HXT motor, and it's only got 1 set of phase leads to connect a controller, so it's going to need to be a hell of a controller to find the limits of this motor.

I bet that 120amp HXT controller will explode in 10 seconds, even just at 12v if you start to apply a little load on that motor. I've blown up the same controller on an RC car that had a 2kw inrunner motor.

[HAL9000v2.0]

I just measured this:
between 2 phases on 4A constant current voltage drop DC 48,2mV and AC 414mV. Someone may do something with this. I do not have micro Ohm meter. Is there any other way how can I measure it?

[swbluto]

Yes, you just supply a DC current between two phases and you measure the voltage. However, I don't know if you used a DC current since you also mention an AC current measurement. With the voltage drop and DC current, resistance is calculated as voltage/current.

Based on the 4A current and 48.2 mV drop, it looks like the resistance is 12.05 mOhm. Outstanding! I'll put up some simulation charts later.

[PhoenixOSU]

How well do you guys think these things will parallel? With each having its own controller, or a custom controller of some kind, I can see these being used even in larger vehicle applications (I have ideas and after my new job starts I may want a few of these).

[HAL9000v2.0]

That is correct. I put 12V 4A through it.

[swbluto]

Wait... was the current limited to 4A? A 12V battery should put out a ton of current if you effectively short it, but if you're using a power supply, then the current limit will automatically lower the output voltage. I suppose a big resistor could be in series with the motor for measurement with a 12V battery to limit the current.

I don't know what the no-load current will be at 72 volts, but that's the one I put in the simulator and I used 8 Amps no load as a guesstimate.

I also set the controller limit to 100A of battery current.

With a gear ratio of 5 : 1 on a 26" bike, it looks like it'd max out at around 63 mph with 6.5 kW out and 655 watts of heat. Motor efficiency is predicted to be around 91% at that speed and power output. The 0-60 time is predicted to be around 6.5-7.5 seconds. Magnetic saturation might slow down the predicted acceleration. The motor would be driven upto about 4000 RPM in this case, which should be possible with a "normal" faster-kind of controller.

Assuming someone does a "monster" version of this and applies, say, 100 volts and 300 amps, it looks like the speed could max out at 103 mph with a gear ratio of 5.4 to 1 and the output power is predicted to be at 27 kW to sustain that speed. You'd need to dispel 1.9 kW of heat at that speed which may not be possible (I think it'd be possible with sufficient cooling). It predicts a 0-60 of 2 seconds, although at those motor current levels, I suspect there'd be some saturation and some wheel spin, so there'd probably be less acceleration in practice. The motor would be driven upto about 6000 RPM in this case, which might be possible with a fast controller.

These all assume a frontal area of .55 meter^2 and drag coefficient of .9, which corresponds to a normal-person semi-upright position on a bicycle. Also, drive-train losses are not taken into account (Which may rob power output by 2-5%).

[jandeman]

wholy crap, they spin up fast and the bench is moving big power

good job guys! keep up the good work, i'll be ordering as many as my budget can afford (close to 10 of these suckers )

cheers
Jan

[HAL9000v2.0]

I have used car bulb as resistor.

[Miles]

So, Kt is around 0.127 Nm/A ?

[bigmoose]

I have a calibrated HP 4328A Milliohm Meter with Kelvin probe and would be glad to measure this motor's internal resistance for you... but I am in Ohio, USA. Perhaps if a motor is headed to Luke, it could detour through my lab.

[katou]

My favorite part of the video is the "hand pony brake" test. Awesome! We all have to do it.

And I know that feeling from building various odd devices, you know, just before you turn it on. "Okay, check everything... Hand on the off-switch...Here we go!"

I had a big vibrator (for concrete) I built and tested clamped to my bench. Capacitor start motor, with a bit too much counterweight - you can see where this is going. It spun up to speed in about 1/2 a second, scared the heck out of me, especially when it broke out of clamps and started dancing.

Thanks for letting us be there with you on the maiden flight Hal!

Katou

[Miles]

My favorite part of the video is the "hand pony brake" test. Awesome!

Prony brake, Katou! Pony brakes are for the frock brethren, as AJ would say

I loved that bit, too

[markobetti]

...Hal, i am sure the performance will be different with kelly ... at low rpms... Meet me today at square , i ll handle you keb 72601 controller

[markobetti]

and tell me what pump do i get to test the cooling ?... http://www.pet-centar.hr/content/view/18/36/