RC-Type Hubmotor

Electric Motors and Controllers
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Miles   100 GW

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by Miles » Aug 04 2011 4:52pm

For anyone who wants to play with the numbers for this configuration, here's a spreadsheet:
Attachments
crossbreak's gearing rev.1a..ods
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crossbreak's gearing rev.1a (Excel format).xls
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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by crossbreak » Aug 06 2011 6:01pm

Thanks for that sheet Miles! That's really helpful. When using that sheet, one has to note that #fixed+#planet 1=#output+#planet2.
Otherwise the gearbox isn't concentric.
I'm now waiting for my Turnigy 80-85, to see if everything will fit before I order the new can pipe and the gears. Does anyone now a source were it's not in backorder? I haven't looked through the supply thread yet, maybe I'll find an other source there.

Thanks for all that help I got, I will report, when I get to work!

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by Miles » Aug 06 2011 6:16pm

crossbreak wrote:When using that sheet, one has to note that #fixed+#planet 1=#output+#planet2.
Otherwise the gearbox isn't concentric.
I thought of having only two inputs with an auto 1t offset for each but it seemed less flexible.
crossbreak wrote: I'm now waiting for my Turnigy 80-85, to see if everything will fit before I order the new can pipe and the gears. Does anyone now a source were it's not in backorder? I haven't looked through the supply thread yet, maybe I'll find an other source there.
Isn't that line being replaced by a different one?

Ref: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 30&t=30077


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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by crossbreak » Aug 06 2011 6:44pm

Ok, Pettenberg is really expensive though. WHat about this one: Shouldn't it be the same dimensions?
http://www.amazon.com/Rimfire-80-85-160 ... B002NXB77W

or this one:
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp ... 4001224353
Last edited by crossbreak on Aug 06 2011 7:15pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by Miles » Aug 06 2011 6:56pm

crossbreak wrote:If these Motors should really cost five time as much now, I will stick to the Pettenberg version.
I would wait and see what they come up with at HK.

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by Miles » Aug 07 2011 5:32am

Added "step" factor (in practice, this will only be set to either 1t or 2t difference). Only the "fixed" and "Planet 1" tooth counts need to be entered.
Attachments
crossbreak's gearing rev.1c. (Excel format).xls
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crossbreak's gearing rev.1c..ods
(10.61 KiB) Downloaded 123 times

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by crossbreak » Oct 24 2011 5:22pm

Thanks a lot for all of your help!

Since I could not get a 80-85, I got a 80-100 for the rear drive. The Hub-Motor project will proceed next year. I will open a new thread for this project when I start working next month, I'm still waiting for some parts.

Here are some CAD pictures. The mjaor work is done I think. Reduction Ratios: 1st gear: 30:1, 9th gear 9,5:1

Image
Image
Image

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by parabellum » Nov 02 2011 11:36pm

crossbreak wrote: Since I could not get a 80-85, I got a 80-100 for the rear drive.
This one?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... Motor.html

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by crossbreak » Nov 04 2011 8:08pm

no, I got the older, heavier version without slots at the end. Maybe I drill those slots in mine for better cooling. Disassembly was easy with the pictures fromm the "rewind 80-100 thread". I think I'll rewind mine, too, to get rid of one reduction drive (the middle chain drive).
I'll need a KV of 42, guess that rewiring it with 15 wires per coil, each 1,2mm in diameter will do the job, if connected in STAR config.

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by liveforphysics » Nov 04 2011 8:31pm

That looks like it will work well for everything, except the bicycle chain at high speed on the second reduction stage.

I would strongly recommend going to a chain designed for high speed operation, like #219. Bicycle chain just doesn't tend to last well at 10x the speed it was designed to operate.
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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by circuit » Nov 07 2011 10:17am

crossbreak, I love your design (in the OP). A few more touches and It will be worth spending some time and money on.
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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by Bazaki » Nov 20 2011 4:17pm

I want to solder the 80-100-KV130 Outrunner in STAR, so I get the 75KV.
Very nice design ! But by solder the 80-100-130kv in star it is possible to get 75kv, can someone please explain how ?

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by salty9 » Nov 21 2011 11:42am

I think OP means original post. This is posted to subscribe. Very interesting.

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by crossbreak » Nov 22 2011 6:32am

Very nice design ! But by solder the 80-100-130kv in star it is possible to get 75kv, can someone please explain how ?
-The 80-100-130kv has 8 turns per coil that are wired in DELTA, so the "return wire" of Phase A is connected to Phase B (forward wire), the return wire of B with C and of C with A.

-If You now wanna wire it in STAR, you have to devide your phases in forward and return wire and wire all three return wires to a short circuit point outside the housing (inside is a more difficult job).

-The KV will be reduced by sqrt(3) so 130/sqrt(3)=75 the torque will rise in the same manner.

I yet don't really know how to seperate forward an return leads.Turning the rotort to induce currents in the coils "by hand" should be possible. The seperated wires would be short circuit by good guess with an old fashioned analog current meter. If current flows, the wires are of the same phase.

But that way I won't know which one's forward and which one's return lead :? . Any ideas to identify them is welcome.

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by Lebowski » Nov 22 2011 7:53am

ok, the clue is to connect everything in a triangle.

Take one winding (lets call this one 1), this is your reference. Spin motor (drill press ?) and measure AC voltage accross this
winding using normal multimeter (in the AC setting !!!!).

Take another winding (2 ?) and connect it to the first one in series. Measure the total series AC voltage. I know it sounds a bit
strange but the total series AC voltage should be equal to the AC voltage of a single winding. If you measure around 1.7 times the
voltage of a single winding then reverse the connections of winding 2 to end up with an AC voltage equal to that of a single winding.

Now connect the third winding (3) in series with 1 and 2 and measure the AC voltage again. If you measure 2 times the voltage
of a single winding, reverse the connections of winding 3. If the total AC voltage of the three series connected windings is 0 then
you've connected everything in the correct order. You can now short the start of winding 1 with the end of winding 3 (remember,
the voltage was 0 so this is no problem).

Now you got your 3 windings connected in delta.

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by circuit » Nov 22 2011 8:11am

Keep it on topic, please.
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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by crossbreak » Nov 22 2011 12:10pm

Take another winding (2 ?) and connect it to the first one in series. Measure the total series AC voltage.
That's the trick. Too easy! Thanks for your help!
Keep it on topic, please.
sorry for that, maybe i should open a new thread. But it's already completely OT.

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by Bazaki » Nov 22 2011 3:15pm

I will try, and see if I can figure it out, otherwise I will take pictures and maybe you can help me.

Thank you !

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by salty9 » Nov 22 2011 5:30pm

Crossbreak,

I am intrigued by your animation in your OP and am wondering whether index marks could be placed on the planet carrier and outer ring which would allow fairly precise estimation of the gear ratio by counting.
Last edited by salty9 on Nov 22 2011 8:16pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by Miles » Nov 22 2011 5:33pm

salty9 wrote:.... am wondering whether index marks could be placed on the planet carrier and outer ring which would allow fairly precise estimation of the gear ratio by counting.
Or, you could use my spreadsheet calculator...... :)

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 10#p442010

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Re: RC-Type Hubmotor

Post by crossbreak » Nov 26 2011 7:41am

Or, you could use my spreadsheet calculator...... :)
that's what it was made for...

my rear drive blog will continue in a new thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=34146

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Inrunner Hubmotor

Post by crossbreak » Mar 04 2013 5:57pm

InRunner front Hubmotor for common 100mm wide forks

This is an Inrunner design, using the well known and above described planetary gearbox configuration. The space within the rotor of an InRunner BLDC motor, which is normally unused, encloses a speed reduction gearbox, having 9.33:1 reduction raio. This has great advantages in both space use and possible weight reduction.

The motor shown here is very similar to miles 90mm InRunner BLDC motor, having 18teeth and 10pole pairs. The major difference is that it has a thicker 40mm stator stack. Outer diameter of the gearbox is less than 55mm, when using module 1 gears. The inrunner BLDC motor used in the GNG Gen1 Kit, would also fit, but it has a shorter stator, so the gears would also have to be shorter to fit into the housing.

The motor is air cooled. The air enters the hub through axial holes and is forced to the radial exits by centripetal forces induced by the rotation of the hub. The InRunner motor is protected from dirt etc. by an own housing with fins for increased heat rejection.

Blue: Fixed parts, including stator, axle, stator housing and fixed gear (20teeth)
Orange: Rotor parts with Planetary carrier
Red: Planetary Gears (15 and 16teeth)
Green: Output Gear (21teeth)

These teeth counts where chosen since they offer both a very compact gearbox and a high reduction ratio. If the blue fixed gear is about 4/3 times the tooth count of the planets, this gearbox config becomes most compact for reduction ratios reasonable for hubmotors. It's the region between 5:1 and 15:1. It would be better to use hardened helical gears, for both lower noise operation and higher torque durability. For a prototype I would want to use straight gears, since they are cheaper. The three planetary double-gears (each consisting of one 15t and one 16t gear) have to be fixed in a special angle, which differs for all three planetary-double-gears. If they are not fixed to each other in the perfect right angle, it will be impossible to assemble the last two double-gears, after the first one was inserted.

Seals are still missing in this first design. It is proposed to keep abrasive parts inside the rotor, which are created due wear of the gears. To protect the magnet system of the BLDC motor from these magnetic particles, they just stay inside the rotor. This also keeps lubricant inside. Additionally it is suggested to use seals for keeping dirt out of the (blue) motor housing. For this purpose, common sealed bearings can be used. They are used in all common bycicle hub-motor as axle bearings.

There is a freewheel clutch, similar to the Stieber CSK-20 build into the hub, connecting the output gear (green) with the hub. It disconnects the motor while not using it, just like all known geared hub-motors use to do.

The stator winds are missing, just costs too much performance for my CAD computer. The phase wires will leave the unit through the right side, I used a oversized 20mm inner diameter axle bearing, to keep some space for those wires.
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