#$%@$#@ <--- (insert favorite swearword here), IT WORKS !!!!

[c_a]

...we'll have 100v 100amp...

400amps please well done L.!

[Lebowski]

Outlandish

At your pace within a month or two we'll have 100v 100amp out of this beast

Well, with SWMBO out of the country I had lots of time during the holidays
The spectacular part is over now as it all works as expected. What I need to do
now is add a throttle to the controller (I now have throttle over CAN bus). I'll
make it such that you can choose to be a 'throttle master' or a 'throttle slave'
The master has the (analog) throttle connected to an ADC (with calibration of course)
and has the option to transmit the throttle information over the CAN bus. A
'throttle slave' controller then can receive this info and use it. This to be able
to build a dual motor bike with dual controllers operating on 1 throttle.
Then I need to upgrade the RS232 menu system to include all possible parameters
for the user to play around with.

About regen, would you guys want to have regen ? It's easy to implement, the throttle
signal is a 2's complement value. Positive means the motor drives the bike, negative
would mean regen. At the moment I only use positive values...
How does the throttle look for regen ? To me either 1 of 2 scenarios looks feasable. One
is where you have a spring loaded twist grip which you rotate one way for acceleration
and the other for regen. Another scenario would be where you have two 'throttles', the one
on the right handlebar a twist or thumb type for acceleration and on the left handlebar
a thumb throttle for regen. The second scenario (two analog signals, one for throttle one
for regen) is by far the easiest to implement...

At the moment when I close the throttle (motor current = 0) there is a tiny amount of regen.
I've seen over a 110V on the displays of my 60 V supply, thanked the lord on my
knees it didn't blow my power supply !

The 400 amps you'll have to try out yourself Christian

[Miles]

Truly inspirational thread Lebowski.

Yes, we definitely need regen. I'm in favour of the second scenario (separate throttles) - this would also suit pedelec type control.

Another feature which would be useful is instant reverse. I think we'll see more retro-direct gear change systems in the future...

[flathill]

Two throttle with variable regen is more flex
You always can just use one if thats all u need and you want to brake with a preset "engine brake"
please i need this feature

[deVries]

Truly inspirational thread Lebowski.

Yes, we definitely need regen. I'm in favour of the second scenario (separate throttles) - this would also suit pedelec type control.

+++inspirational... especially, if this goes to completion to actually work on the road... I dare say, no, I know, Lebowski you're going to be extremely famous and mostly appreciated (if you shun the fame ) on ES.

If you want to do regen, then I'm with Miles.

Instant reverse is very spooky. Is that technique done elsewhere in the transport universe?

[Miles]

Instant reverse is very spooky. Is that technique done elsewhere in the transport universe?

Seems to be more popular in the communication universe

[nieles]

what kind of power stage are you going to design for this?

[Gordo]

Second tumb throttle for regen, Please.

[Lebowski]

Second tumb throttle for regen, Please.

I'm thinking about putting 2 what I call 'polynomal' throttles in

x1 = raw analog voltage throttle pin 1 but scaled and calibrated to result in a 0..1 range, then
y1 = -1..1 (range) = a1*x1 + b1*x1^2 + c1*x1^3

x2, same as x1 but different analog throttle pin on 30F
y2 calculated using a2, b2, c2 and x2

Then motor current (so torque) = max phase Current * (y1 + y2)

With the a, b and c parameters you can get creative and make linear, exponentional or square root type curves.
For regen you just have to make a,b,c such that the resulting y is negative. Different curves for positive
(motor powers bike) and negative (regen) with different ranges are possible in this way. I think this is the
most flexible setup and relatively easy to calculate in assembly (as the 30F has a hardware multiplier).

[Lebowski]

what kind of power stage are you going to design for this?

That'll be the next step... first I want to finish the 30F4011 brain so people who want can
do a transplant in an existing controller or build their own output stage around it and test
it on their motors. Now that it runs under load and with a bike and an RC motor I'm getting
really curious on how it will perform with different motors

For my own bike I'm considering 6 or 12 4115 's as I'll be running around 100 V on my bike (for a
battery I think I'll put two ping 48V10Ah in series, > 100V hot of the charger). That or I'll stay
with a combination of NMOS and PMOS transistors.

Stuur me een PM als je handig met een soldeerbout bent en mijn controller op je motor wilt uitproberen.

[fechter]

One arrangement that works well for me is to have a single throttle for + torque and an on/off switch tied to the brake lever for regen. This means you have a fixed regen level, so somewhat of a comprimise, but I've found that if you get the fixed level set properly it works nicely. This assumes the regen is running at a fixed current so the braking force is constant over a wide speed range.

The brake switch could be used in conjunction with a pot to make it easier to adjust.

In operation, the brake switch is adjusted so it comes on just before the brake pads make contact. This makes it possible for regen only braking with a light pull, then regen plus friction braking if you pull a little harder.

With a magnet/linear hall sensor, a variable regen could be done with the brake lever but getting everything dialed in would be challenging.

[Lebowski]

One arrangement that works well for me is to have a single throttle for + torque and an on/off switch tied to the brake lever for regen.

This would also work with a 2-throttle analog interface. With the regen switch you just toggle between two analog voltages on one of the analog throttle pins.

[Arlo1]

Why have 2 throttles lol. You guys are all stuck way out side the box... Just use a 3 wire hall sensor in a brake lever. I think there is 0-5 v hall brakes allready for sale and if not just take a e-brake from ebikes.ca and install a hall in it. Then you have veriable brakes (rengen) on the lever it belongs. I dont want some one having to LEARN how to stop my bike!

[Lebowski]

Why have 2 throttles lol. You guys are all stuck way out side the box... Just use a 3 wire hall sensor in a brake lever. I think there is 0-5 v hall brakes allready for sale and if not just take a e-brake from ebikes.ca and install a hall in it. Then you have veriable brakes (rengen) on the lever it belongs. I dont want some one having to LEARN how to stop my bike!

This will also be possible with the 2 throttle setup 2 throttles is the most flexible.
You connect the normal analog throttle to 1 input and the brake switch (via some resistors or can even be direct)
to the other. Then it's just a matter of using the right coefficients.

[parabellum]

Great progress!
Is it possible to stop the EMF at end of the regen for full stop? It will use some extra power but makes mechanical brake unnecessary.

Variable regen is fine, it can be made to regulated fixed regen in minutes with resistor and brake switch considering analog signal. With addition of little cap time regulated transition from minimum to desired regen can be made instead of torque arm ripping fixed regen on infineons.

[damcard]

I always wanted a half twist throttle that lets you not only twist back for acceleration, but forward for reverse/ variable regen. Just thought it would be cool. -Damcard.

[Alan B]

Nice progress.

My plan for a throttle/regen control is a full twist for throttle with a thumb variable regen both on the right hand side. The regen and rear brake are easily controlled simultaneously by the one hand that is no longer busy with the throttle. The other hand has a full job already handling the front brake.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I always wanted a half twist throttle that lets you not only twist back for acceleration, but forward for reverse/variable regen. Just thought it would be cool. -Damcard.

Like the Vectrix?

[Lebowski]

Nieles just pointed me to a thread from Jeremy

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=23350

Reading through the datasheet of the NCP5181, I think I'll use this IC as the FET driver for
the controller for my own personal bike. Thanks Jeremy and Nieles for mentioning this driver IC

At the moment I use an optically isolated output stage but all the extra supplies this needs
are giving me a headache

[bigmoose]

If your future intent is high power, you might like to consider driver chips that have a separate source return pin (commonly labelel LO) that can be +- 5 relative to true ground.

Great results!

[Arlo1]

This is my first time using express shc but this is what I made for a powerstage with the IR2113 fet driver dave recomended. I should have it working soon.

[bigmoose]

edit: I missed a part in my original comment. Removed comment as it is not accurate. Sorry Arlo!

But I think I caught something new. Mind the data sheet, particularly page 3 and figure 12B and 13B. If you feed Vdd with 15 volts you will move the input logic levels up above the 5V range. You want to power Vdd with 5V and Vcc with 15.

[Alan B]

Why is the IR2113 "recommended"? Just like to understand the differences between the drivers better.

Thanks in advance,

[bigmoose]

Every designer has the products he is familiar with, and likes. A lot like the Ford/Chevy preferences of the old days. There are a couple of features I "like" about the IR2113, one is the shutdown pin. The second and more important is the separate LO return for driving the lower FET. This "extra" pin allows the LO to be within +-5 volts of GND or Vss pin of the driver without it going weird. This "extra" pin often saves a headache in layout, or gives you more wiggle room there when the bottom FET "ground bounces" and such.

Again, just my opinion. Others will see it differently, and will have successful designs. There are many "right" designs.

[Arlo1]

edit: I missed a part in my original comment. Removed comment as it is not accurate. Sorry Arlo!

But I think I caught something new. Mind the data sheet, particularly page 3 and figure 12B and 13B. If you feed Vdd with 15 volts you will move the input logic levels up above the 5V range. You want to power Vdd with 5V and Vcc with 15.

Thanks thats proly why it don't run yeat lol.