Hub motor rewind hs60

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Andje
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Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jan 19, 2012 2:01 pm

So I have two burnt crystalyte hs30 motors from mehtods prebuy. I want to rewind them as one larger motor.
These motors were 10*6 before, and hit 110 km/h at 100v on a 26 inch rim. I would like to keep or expand the top speed, so keeping relatively the same kv or slightly higher is the goal. I'm planning on running at least 120v with a 144v Kelly.

Here you can see the magnet rings, and the flange I will need to machine down on the inside edge so as to have the magnets form one ring.
magnet rings.jpg
magnet rings.jpg (146.71 KiB) Viewed 2709 times
magnet rings outside.jpg
magnet rings outside.jpg (131.35 KiB) Viewed 2709 times
And here you can see the two stators, one stripped. They also have a flange I will need to machine down after pressing out the axles.
stators.jpg
stators.jpg (146.24 KiB) Viewed 2709 times
I am using the ev and stator calcs to test a 4 turn 10 strand wind; this is what I get. I don't know the kv but figure it at about 10 due to doubling stator and almost halving turns.
hs3.PNG
(245.23 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
And finally, here is a photo of 18 gauge wire in the stator. I can fit 40 turns, maybe 42 for 3*7 but that's it, and the insulation paper takes away .04 of a mm which i dont knave yet.
statorwith40wire.jpg
statorwith40wire.jpg (129.12 KiB) Viewed 2709 times
I have never done anything like this before, so I will be relying on the community to correct me when I err. Any advice at all would be appreciated. If I am missing something please tell me.
If you are in Ontario or Quebec and you have a lathe and some time, let me know; I need to find someone to lathe down my stator and rings, and to manufacture an axle.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jan 21, 2012 10:11 pm

So I may have found someone to do the lathe work i require. If it pans out then I will be making progress very soon. I have been watching farfle's motor rewind and noticed him doing all the strands perpendicular to the stator tooth, and he has a tool filling the other half of the slot vertically. I had been thinking how to wind mine on the diagonal like the factory version, but now i would love to know which gives you less end turn loss; would seen to me to be farfle's since horizontal is less distance across the end then diagonal would be.
I am also now thinking that since I will have to manufacture an axle anyway I may as well go whole hog with proper wire space by widening the bearing whole in the cover plate slightly, getting a high strength needle bearing (i assume i will be able to find one within strength tolerance and i think that's the thinnest style bearing? i may be wrong), and then lathing out a ring that fits between bearing and axle that will have holes for the phase wires and hall sensors, a set screw to hold it tight to a flat ground to the axle, maybe a keyway, wouldn't want that part suddenly spinning with the covers if the bearing seized... if I could make it wide enough for computer cooling fittings I could run a simple water cooling system :P.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by neptronix » Jan 21, 2012 10:39 pm

Nice project Andje.. this is going to be the year of motorcycle-shaming hub motor performance.. :twisted:
I'm glued. This could be more of a beast than the cromotor... that is.. if it fits between a bicycle dropout... :mrgreen:
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jan 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Should end up 136 mm from bearing flange to flange, so it'll fit in a 150mm dropout, although a chainring will be a tight fit...
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jan 22, 2012 3:28 pm

Looks like my college prof can do the lathework :)
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Alan B » Jan 22, 2012 4:36 pm

This will be a monster motor. Will it have room for a disc brake, too?

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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jan 22, 2012 8:44 pm

yeah, that 136 mm width includes the disk flange on the cover... i assume i'll be able to fit a disk brake on there; I may have to machine an adapter to move the calliper left or something.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by sn0wchyld » Jan 25, 2012 8:10 am

subbed mate.... this could be interesting... :mrgreen:

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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jan 26, 2012 4:37 pm

I saw the enertrac hub motor that is posted over on the for sale section; the ring with holes for the phase wires is exactly what i was thinking of doing.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jan 31, 2012 8:50 pm

Dropped off my motors today with the guy who will be doing the lathing of the stator flanges and the replacement axle. I expect to start winding mid February, and cannot wait. This will be one heck of a beast when I am done...
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Hyena » Jan 31, 2012 11:58 pm

Ambitious!
I look forward to seeing the outcome :)
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Feb 03, 2012 10:48 am

I will be getting my stator ring back on monday modified for construction. We decided to look into sticking them together mechanically instead of with epoxy to save weight. We may also implement this strategy to stick the magnet rings together, or we may go epoxy. He thinks the flanges on the outsides of the stators can be made to fit inside one another by lathing out the insides of one and the outsides of the other. Then they can slot together with a good amount of horizontal surface to attach either via epoxy or some form of band around the outside.
My prof showed me some of the other projects he is doing, it is pretty incredible. I have of course seen mini v8's before, but this one has piston heads about the size of a nickel. He has 80+ hours in just the cylinders and another 200 in the cam shaft. Amazing stuff, and all for fun. He used to do the lumberjack racing events with supercharged two stroke chainsaws that he would build from scratch. Crazy stuff.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by bane77087 » Feb 04, 2012 7:13 pm

Possible with a bench drill and a stable hand you could shave a constant amount off the inside edges of the stator allowing you to fit more winds. I don't know if more winds would be benificial or not or whether it would throw the stator out of balance. And as far as banding the 2 stators together wouldn't your winds accomplish that? banding it after epoxy seems a little overkill with it stuffed with winds

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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Feb 04, 2012 7:37 pm

well, cant risk them moving at all, so i won't trust just the windings. But the keyway in the centre should accomplish most of the job on its own yes. And no, shaving the stator has no benefit; the ratio of copper fill vs. saturation point doesn't work like that on this scale as far as I'm aware. Plus cant risk them shorting to each other; that would increase heating in the long run. And I also wont have an axle in there while winding them, so need some way of ensuring they remain properly connected. But we will for sure be looking for the lightest solution; frankly i'm not worried about the weight of a thin layer of dp420, although now i think abut it i would want to check the temperature rating, i suppose that's important.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Feb 07, 2012 7:35 pm

Well, the inside spokes of the stator are Bakelite, not some cast metal as was i think claimed by crystalyte at the time. My stators are machined and my prof is just doing the axle. The pics of it sitting on his lathe with both stators locked together is amazing; i asked him to send it to me. I get the whole thing back ready to go thursday or friday. I got my Kelly controller reccomended thermistors, they are PTC which means they are annoying to code into the arduino. O well, they will be plug and play with the controller. I'll have some in each phase winding, probably spaced 180 apart. Can't have too much info.
I still have to clean all the stator groves with some sort of solvent to get some of the left over winding epoxy out of there. My prof suggested paint thinner; could this harm the stator laminations in some way?
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by liveforphysics » Feb 07, 2012 8:52 pm

Remember, if stator width doubles, you need to cut the number of turns in half to keep the same KV.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Feb 08, 2012 1:21 pm

Absolutely; it was a 10*6 and I am looking at doing either a 7*3 or a 10*2 if I can.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Harold in CR » Jun 12, 2013 12:54 pm

Was just sitting figuring how to wind a double stator 3540 Crystalyte hubmotor. The double stator would be 70mm wide X 195mm dia. best I can measure. I will put a larger dia. axle through the hubs, to allow for larger gauge phase leads. The windings overlap in each slot. One is wound, then, another is wound on top of the first, coming from an adjacent slot.

On other motor rewinds, each wind is separate from each other. None overlap.

What is the difference in the 2 types of rewind ?

I have a bunch of .040 dia. wire to wind with, and would like to wind the motor at a slower speed, so it can be run faster with higher voltage. Hoping to not burn it up in stop and go traffic, along with cruising at 60-70 KPH. Is this possible, say, at 72-74V on hardtop roads?

I have so many pages bookmarked, + notes, and, the more I read, the more confused I get.

Anyone interested in trying to explain what I need to do?
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jun 16, 2013 2:48 pm

I think you are referring to the way the copper is stacked in the slots?
If you have a tiny slot or large wires and you can only fit two wire diameters in the slot, then you could wind it so that each tooth had one wire with multiple turns covering the tooth in a single layer of wire. If each tooth was done like this then there would be no overlap between teeth; the copper would be "back to back" with itself in a single layer on each tooth covering the tooth from top to bottom.
If you have multiple small wires or a large slot where you will be wrapping a bundle of copper arround a tooth then an easier way to wind the teeth is to put one bundle in at the bottom arround one tooth and another bundle at the top half round the other tooth. It still means the same amount and number of turns around the teeth no matter how you get it in there, so it's the same electrical effect.
For the same hubmotor when you double the width with two stators you have to halve the turns so that it keeps the same speed; if you want yours slightly slower so as to keep the same speed at higher voltage you could add a turn or two.
The more copper the better.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Harold in CR » Jun 16, 2013 5:13 pm

Thanks Andje. That is exactly what I was wanting and will do. I have thicker wire, so, I need to figure out the number of turns. I want to have a slower wind, so I can run higher voltage. I believe this is the way to keep from burning up these motors.

Did you ever get yours finished ?
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Andje » Jun 16, 2013 5:48 pm

I'm still working on it tbh :) I am hoping to start winding very very soon. I ended up leaving it with my teacher for machining and he took ages and then I was away from school and we never connected until about a month ago. The project is once again a priority for me since I just used up a motor and need a faster wound one for my A-line.
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Re: Hub motor rewind hs60

Post by Trackman417 » Jul 10, 2013 6:20 pm

How's progress?
The wait is killing me man!
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