Difference MagicPie/ Golden Motor HBS

[pako]

Hello,
is there any difference in power between a MagicPie and the GoldenMotor HBS (48V 1kW)? The diameter of the MagicPie is bigger, but has it also more copper in it?
BTW I have a HBS motor and I use a Kelly KBL controller 96V 150A. I use a lipobattery of 20s 13,2Ah for now (going for 30s in the future).

[nechaus]

its a slightly higher speed winding than mp..
id rather the mp over the hbs, better heat sink and i dump 8kw of peak power at 103 volts..
it gets hot quick but big holes drilled near the windings helps, good to install fan blades inside the covers too..

[dnmun]

remember that fan blades can cause the hub to seize up at speed if they break off and jam between the rotor and the hub.

i don't know how to establish the risk, but not in a front motor for sure. maybe if the covers had integral fan like air scoops molded into the casting, but if they can get loose they will.

[pako]

I posted a reply and now it is gone
Anyway, bike weighs 35kg, lipo20s 13,2ah, average speed 45-55km/h, topspeed 72km/h @ 74V, can draw 120amps when accelerating, 15wh/km, deliver 150W myself.

[John in CR]

remember that fan blades can cause the hub to seize up at speed if they break off and jam between the rotor and the hub.

i don't know how to establish the risk, but not in a front motor for sure. maybe if the covers had integral fan like air scoops molded into the casting, but if they can get loose they will.

For my interior blades I prepare both surfaces properly and use epoxy to secure the blades in place along with a bolt running through the blade and cover with epoxy on the threads to make sure the nut never comes loose. Unlike the high risk approach of glued on torque arms, my interior blades have exactly a 0% chance of breaking loose and ruining the motor.

BTW, the blades aren't to help spin the air. As El Steaks testing showed, his blades didn't create more flow, because the air is already spinning due to the existing vanes inside most covers along with the entire spinning surface of the entire rotor assembly (covers and magnets). I arrange the blades so they deflect the flow away from the smooth side covers directly at the stator and end windings to create a more turbulent flow where it is needed most.

John

[iamsofunny]

The magic pie has twice the climbing ability and accelerates much faster

[pako]

The magic pie has twice the climbing ability and accelerates much faster

explain please

[dnmun]

perceived higher torque, PHT. the 9C has moaning siren turbine call, MSTC.

[neptronix]

Geez.....

The magic pie has drastically more torque than their other DD, which is identical in performance to the 9C, MXUS etc. motors.
It also sheds heat better.
It also handles more power.

But it is a slow winding. You'll need to feed it high volts for it to go fast. You need an aftermarket controller to really give it the amps it wants too.

See my magic pie build in my thread. snellemin and oooscorpionooo have also built really high power bikes on the 26" pies as well.

The mid-size hub is not worth buying IMHO. If you must have it for whatever reason, just get yourself a MXUS kit from cell_man, it'll cost a lot less and perform all the same.

[pako]

When I add 72V to my HBS motor, it spins at about 600rpm (with 2200W load), so I think a MagicPie has not a much slower winding.

Quote:
The magic pie has drastically more torque than their other DD

With drastically more torque you mean more torque per amp? But is it so that if you have more torque per amp, that with the same amount of copper for the windings, it can do less amps because it needs thinner wires due to more turns?

[neptronix]

More torque per power inputted, really. Being a slow winding, it doesn't need so many amps to produce much torque, just lots of volts to make a high speed.

But the large diameter of the motor is what helps it produce so much dang torque. So much more than my MAC and MXUS '8x8' wind could ever put out, even with the pie on a meager 2kW versus the other two motors on 4-4.5kW.

[miuan]

We need someone to verify if there is any difference between MP2 and MP3 copper fill and stator width.
We also really need Justin to put a MP on the dyno.

[pako]

Let say we have a MagicPie and it has to be rewind. I think that the maximum power you can get out of the motor is about the same, no matter how many turns the motor is rewinded: if you make a low speed motor with high torque, you need many turns, so much torque per amp, but the maximum current is less (thinner wires).
If you make a high speed/low torque motor then you have less torque per amp, but the maximum current can be higher.

So my simple line of thought: if you have a motor with 2 times the torque, you need twice as many turns, so wires had to be twice as thin, so maximum current is half. If you use this motor on 100V 50A, it has the same speed/torque as the same motor on 50V 100A with 2 times less torque.

[neptronix]

We need someone to verify if there is any difference between MP2 and MP3 copper fill and stator width.
We also really need Justin to put a MP on the dyno.

Gary from Golden Motor Canada says that they are the same motor ( copper and magnet wise ). The main difference is the controller and casing.

Yeah, Justin really does need to dyno it. It's really an underrated motor.

The 26" pie on high volts is actually decent due to the larger wheel diameter. Short periods of upper 40mph figures seem reliably possible.

[snellemin]

The Pie is a monster and I really need a 18 fet controller to unleash the beast properly. But Lyen doesn't have a 18fet sensorless controller, so I just have to live with what I have.
It's always more efficient to make power with voltage than with current, which is why I choose the Pie in the first place. I can use smaller gauge power and motor wires, instead of the lower voltage/high amperage setups that require thicker cables.