Greentime controllers

Electric Motors and Controllers
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crossbreak
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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 10, 2016 8:15 am

the last boards i got from Leo are different. I think they have no x8m06c chip. Also, the have no power resistors anymore , but a fancy switching powersupply. I guess it's a foward converter (it has two primary and one secondary coil)
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nicomunet123
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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by nicomunet123 » Aug 10, 2016 8:54 am

crossbreak, it is XCM X8M06-k. The software is the same. The same stolen NEC microcontroller. (Or not an microcontroller? )
At least I think so.
(http://www.xcmmcu.com/ - manufacturer of this)

And switch-mode supply is awesome, now controller will not eat so much energy, when not used :D
Also I ordered a 6-fet controller from Leo, he is good guy! I asked about PCB - he send me a photo!

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 10, 2016 9:45 am

thanks for that info, nicomunet! i doubt that your 6fet will have that switching PSU as well, we'll see when it arrives at your place though. i started a list for the pads and connectors, it's annoying to search the thread for regen or reverse pads...
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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by nicomunet123 » Aug 10, 2016 10:47 am

crossbreak, thank you for pads list! I will need it soon.
I looked closely on photoes, that Leo made - i found a transformer/inductor. It means, that 6FET also have a switch-mode supply.
http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/images/1/114oeed.jpeg - photo

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crossbreak
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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 10, 2016 6:31 pm

yep, and the LM317 is gone :) nice! may have enough punch to drive an arduino that eats around 20mA.

Any idea what the white cables are meant for? or this 4 pole plug with phase C on it??!?

tried my 15Fet today with a MAC hub motor. It looses sync under load at 0-40% speed :oops: with sensors connected it is worse then without . Above that it works normally :roll:
Anyone with sync problems? Didnt ever have them with these controllers, the reason i like them

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by Animalector » Aug 10, 2016 10:15 pm

what's the switchmode control IC??? can anyone tell, I want to use a high voltage SMPS many max out at 75V

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by nicomunet123 » Aug 11, 2016 2:55 am

Animalector wrote:what's the switchmode control IC??? can anyone tell, I want to use a high voltage SMPS many max out at 75V
I think that there is no IC, only blocking-generator thingy. Maybe with some sort of output voltage control.
At least I think so. (Because I still didn't recieved my controller. It is on the way).
And LM7805 is still there for MCU power.

Again, it is mine guesses about that.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by John in CR » Aug 11, 2016 3:47 am

Crossbreak,

If a genius type like Lebowski doesn't have sensorless operation worked out, just let it go. Sensorless will always be pedal first at best. Just think about it. With a hubmotor you're talking about very low rpm in those first couple of meters, so the controller can't have enough info wrt to direction and timing, so it relies on trial and error...thus the noisy hiccups during startup.

If you really want to go sensorless, then the route to take is one tooth per phase and a sensorless controller for every 3 phases. At that point you can use tiny RC controllers for each phase and get a nice smooth start along with perfect timing at higher rpm, since the controller isn't reliant on sensors that are easily out of position of fractions of a degree (which can have big effects with the common hubbie sensor placement). This approach was tested and proven years ago, but gained no traction on ES due to so many "followers" following crap. Personally I took a different approach and settled on 6 phase motors, which enable even the cheapest of the cheap trap controllers to offer near silent operation. Even craptastic sensorless works quite well, though I stick with sensored for virtual silent takeoffs.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by crossbreak » Aug 11, 2016 9:21 am

Animalector wrote:what's the switchmode control IC??? can anyone tell, I want to use a high voltage SMPS many max out at 75V
Yes, there must be at least some very simple logic that produces a block signal for switching the mosfet. i'll have a look. My unit is rated for a maximum voltage of 84V or 22s Li-ion

John,
thanks , i use these since 5 years without major issues. From a dead stop. Sure there is a little yerk, but for the typical 48V/30A/1000W/50kph city commuter ebike it works just fine. Remember, i dont built motorcycles like you. I just figure out the power limit of this simple sensorless approach. 3000W would be nice. Now we have those ICs that can hear the grass grow, measure a few µV at high sampling rates, still they are cheap. There must be something better than these cheapo greentimes...buts that is OT.

I built 12 or 13 bikes with sensors and around 30 without. The last ones had a lot less trouble. Most of them still work with only maintenance issues so far (worn brakes, flat tyres etc). Ok must admit, the high powered ones where those with issues and sensors.

Sure Lebowskis thing is genius, still he cant compete with what large companies like Ti do (InstaSpin etc?). Or maybe he can? Benjamin Vedder got some quite robust algorithm running. I'll try that in a few weeks and compare it with the greentimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfNcHmt_avE

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by amberwolf » Aug 11, 2016 5:02 pm

John in CR wrote:Sensorless will always be pedal first at best. Just think about it. With a hubmotor you're talking about very low rpm in those first couple of meters, so the controller can't have enough info wrt to direction and timing, so it relies on trial and error...thus the noisy hiccups during startup.
With the XC8m0x-based sensorless 12FETs I have (two differrent generic sources) they do work on the SB Crfuiser heavy cargo trike for goo startups most of the time....but sometimes I do actually have ot push it just a hair forward or bacxkward with feet or pedals before it will be able to go.


Are these lastest Greentime controllers also XC8M based? (edit: nevermind, I missed the post above that verifies they are)

(I ask partly to see if any of Crossbreak's chart will apply to any of hteir PCB pads, for anything I havne't already got labelled here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... controller

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by nicomunet123 » Aug 12, 2016 9:52 am

amberwolf wrote:
John in CR wrote: Are these lastest Greentime controllers also XC8M based? r
XCM based.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by whatever » Aug 14, 2016 6:19 am

just a thought on the sync issue with mac motor. The positioning of the hall sensors in the mac/bmc seems to vary somewhat,
it might be related to where they are positioned, as motor rpm changes there is advance on the phase signal, a slight change in hall sensor position ( too more advanced) might solve the problem?

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by evolutiongts » Aug 24, 2016 7:28 pm

These controllers are obsolete now with the availability of sinewave controllers.
http://www.electricrt.com
Electric Race Technologies

10Kw KMX death trike
MUXUS 3K Turbo
Sabvoton 72V150A
Moto Wheels all around
Front Suspension Kit
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=83423

Giant Trance 4 Full Suspension
Cyclone 3000W
74V 3000W
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=59005

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by DAND214 » Aug 24, 2016 7:36 pm

evolutiongts wrote:These controllers are obsolete now with the availability of sinewave controllers.
Anything CPU base is obsolete when we get it.

Dan


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Re: Greentime controllers EABS

Post by moritzerl » Aug 29, 2016 12:25 pm

hi

i use the GREENTIME 15 Mosfets 48-84V 1500W 45Amax Dual mode Sensor/Sensorless Brushless DC Motor Controller.

use it at 72v Volts - i have the problem that EABS is not working on HI and Low Brake

the seller said EABS is only working on 48V Volts ? Why ?

do you have any idea how i can get EABS working on 72v Volts ?

Seller say postfactum: This controller regen braking only works with 48V batteries, because the low voltage cutoff is 41V ??

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by John in CR » Aug 29, 2016 6:33 pm

On their controllers, the high voltage cutoff of regen is automatically tied to the low voltage cutoff of the battery. Changing that low voltage cutoff if a matter of changing a resistor, but I have no idea which resistor or what value to use to give you an LVC to match your pack, which would bring the HVC for regen up to the value you need.

FWIW, Hi brake and Lo brake are the signal sent to the controller to activate regen. Lo brake is the common ebike type which is a short to gnd to activate regen. Hi brake requires a positive voltage of about 9V all the way up to pack voltage, which is common on scooters so regen is activated with the +12V line from the brake lights. I always discourage using pack voltage for EABS, because running high voltage over such thin exposed wires that are flexed all the time with the handlebars is begging for problems. I've even used a separate 3s battery pack to supply that very low current signal to avoid using pack voltage.

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by moritzerl » Aug 29, 2016 11:44 pm

thanks for info :)

i will open the controller and find the resistor maybe the microprocessor is a XCM X8M06-k

does anyone know which is the correct resistor ?

AND thanks for HI brake Info - if i use it i will not go above 12 Volts...

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by moritzerl » Aug 31, 2016 2:07 am

opened the controller - yeah and its the one with the 15k SMD Resistor for LVC
with the formular posted in this thread i calculated 22,8k for 60V LVC what i need - so i will replace the smd and hope it works

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by moritzerl » Aug 31, 2016 11:45 am

yeah - 22K Resistor - and it works perfect

if i use Low Brake my Cycle Analyst shows Regen-Mode (not EABS) negative Watts and 81-84V for my 72V Battery :D

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by Bor_Ed » Sep 01, 2016 3:57 pm

Hi all.
I don't know if this is the correct thread so administrators can move this to better if needed...
I built a bike with 15 fet (48-84V 45A irf4410), 4 x 6S 16Ah lipo cells, greentime 24s BMS and 9c 2907 motor.
Test run was ok on around 3km round trip and I was quite happy with the performance of the set.
The next day I took the bike for commuting and it blew the FETs and probably drivers too (need to do more analysis when I can) of one phase on both sides and broke the BMS output apparently as well.
Battery voltage was 96V when this happened and for the controller point of view I'm not worried as I can replace the FETs with irf4115 but the BMS is more worrying.
BMS gives currently 39.8V floating voltage between P- and DC+, even though B- and C- against DC+ still show 95.8V.
Have you seen such failure on BMS when controller shoots through on a phase and should I replace the driver transistors too?

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by nicomunet123 » Sep 03, 2016 3:40 pm

crossbreak, can you send me againg that program? :D

All things that I had done before will work only on X8M06-K and probably XCM-K...
But I do not have ...-K controller. And new program from XCM works only with K series...

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by Minimaded » Sep 23, 2016 5:19 pm

crossbreak wrote:thanks! Here is the V3 flash program http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gf ... cc9ca89bbe, should work with those 3-wire FTDI connection. The one i found on google drive is a non compiled Java program i cant compile without installing eclipse. I tried that compiled V3 once, but it didnt connect.
Hi crossbreak, could you reupload the v3.0 software, the link doesn't work anymore.

Thanks

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by BritNoob » Jan 11, 2017 7:59 am

sketchism wrote:Hey guys I have the 2015 model 24 fet greentime with 4110s
And I've got my 3 speed switch working by adding the wires to the ZF pad, it was default to mid not high

But my pcb layout isn't like the others listed here and doesn't have the K1 K2 phase timing pads which is what I opened it to do? Would they be labled different in mine maybe a different pcb?

Also my chip/pinout is different too, anyone think there's a chance of programming this one? I would be happy to contribute cash towards the cause, this controller has been brilliant in every other way.

Anyone seen this layout on the greentime 24's? Where would the phase timing advance pads be?
image.jpeg
I Think I have the exact same controller as this... Do you happen to know what model it is and who makes it along with wiring diagram?

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Re: Greentime controllers

Post by casainho » Apr 17, 2017 12:20 am

I am really happy to see that we now have the datasheet for the microcontroller of KU63!! -- Anyone developed OpenSource firmware for it?
Is there anyone trying to do it? I can probably help.

4 years I got I tried to develop a controller and firmware for bicycles *

Then 2 years ago I moved to Electric Unicycles and I continue with the project, for unicycles. I found a cheap chinese controller board that uses a very well know microcontroller STM32F103 that every chinese unicycle or hoverboard uses. I know have the code that implements Field Oriented Control for the motor controlling and I am actively working on it **

*


**
Developer of OpenSource firmware for EBike BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/

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