Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Jun 14, 2017 11:57 am

For phase wires.. i have the first revision of the motor with something like 16 gauge as stock. I cut the phase wires about an inch out the axle and replaced the remainder with 12 gauge wiring to 4mm bullet connectors.

When i showed you folks what this motor was capable of at 6000W in the first pages, i had the 12 gauge wiring installed. The wires were not a heat bottleneck and were adequate for the ~80A i was pushing.

In short, i wouldn't worry too much about the phases. The new thicker ones should be fine even for wheelie popping power levels on a 4T.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by cal3thousand » Jun 14, 2017 12:26 pm

Philaphlous wrote:
cal3thousand wrote:
Philaphlous wrote:Hey guys!!!

So It took me this long to figure it out. I guess I bought a leaf motor. 1000w kit. I'm a bit worried now. I have an old trek 800 I'm planning on putting the hub motor on. I'm worried about the rear dropout width... Looks much wider to me on the motor than the bike. I don't have the bike yet mind you. So I'm looking to see if anyone knows the dropout width of the trek 800? Also, if it doesn't fit...which I have a feeling it won't...how do I go about widening the rear fork?
It's a standard 135mm dropout. Not many bikes have a smaller one and the larger 150mm is generally for downhill or other heavily suspended bikes. The leaf motor will fit and you will have room for that 7 speed freewheel. Did your motor come with a 7 speed freewheel? If not, reuse your old one, but you'll need a tool that can remove it from the old wheel.

Awesome!!! Thank you! It sure looks wider but I wasn't sure. That makes me feel a heck of alot better. I'm not even getting the stock wheel so it'll have to be the freewheel from the kit...
Did you specify 7 speed? That's what your bike came with stock on the rear cluster.
neptronix wrote:For phase wires.. i have the first revision of the motor with something like 16 gauge as stock. I cut the phase wires about an inch out the axle and replaced the remainder with 12 gauge wiring to 4mm bullet connectors.

When i showed you folks what this motor was capable of at 6000W in the first pages, i had the 12 gauge wiring installed. The wires were not a heat bottleneck and were adequate for the ~80A i was pushing.

In short, i wouldn't worry too much about the phases. The new thicker ones should be fine even for wheelie popping power levels on a 4T.
This motor is going to be a hoot with the hubsinks and Ferrofluid on the way :D

Glad to know the new phases are going to be up to snuff.
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Philaphlous » Jun 14, 2017 3:36 pm

I believe my bike came with a 7 speed in the rear. I'm also planning on upgrading the wiring to 12awg all around. Unfortunately my home built battery is only going to be good for around 30A total so not a ton of power but still should be plenty for my 5mi one way commute... My kit came with a 12 fet controller. The controller is surpringly small. I added some thermal pads to make a much much better seal between the aluminum bar the fets are attached to and the actual casing. I'm looking forward to getting my bike here next week and hope to have it all hooked up in the next week or two.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by cal3thousand » Jun 14, 2017 4:28 pm

Philaphlous wrote:I believe my bike came with a 7 speed in the rear. I'm also planning on upgrading the wiring to 12awg all around. Unfortunately my home built battery is only going to be good for around 30A total so not a ton of power but still should be plenty for my 5mi one way commute... My kit came with a 12 fet controller. The controller is surpringly small. I added some thermal pads to make a much much better seal between the aluminum bar the fets are attached to and the actual casing. I'm looking forward to getting my bike here next week and hope to have it all hooked up in the next week or two.
That's a good match then, as far as battery (30A) and a 12 FET are concerned. Did you make sure to use some thermal putty on there?
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Philaphlous » Jun 15, 2017 7:59 am

cal3thousand wrote:
Philaphlous wrote:I believe my bike came with a 7 speed in the rear. I'm also planning on upgrading the wiring to 12awg all around. Unfortunately my home built battery is only going to be good for around 30A total so not a ton of power but still should be plenty for my 5mi one way commute... My kit came with a 12 fet controller. The controller is surpringly small. I added some thermal pads to make a much much better seal between the aluminum bar the fets are attached to and the actual casing. I'm looking forward to getting my bike here next week and hope to have it all hooked up in the next week or two.
That's a good match then, as far as battery (30A) and a 12 FET are concerned. Did you make sure to use some thermal putty on there?
Lol, never heard it called putty. Yes, I have some thermal paste on it but the pads are more to replace the paste because of the gap between the bar and frame. That should really increase thermal transfer over the stock paste.

So I checked the rim, it does have a spoke guard inside it so I should be good to go on that end. My bike is getting shipped out today so I should have it Monday next week, latest Tuesday. I went ahead and stripped the shieth for the wires to replace the three phase wires with 12awg that I will route through the frame. I plan on connecting the controller to the down post right underneath the seat by the rear wheel. That should be the best place for it. I'll get some U brackets to mount it to the tube. I'm also looking at using my 150amp power meter mounted to the front straight bar underneath the handlebars. That'll be a good place to monitor my power usage. After that, I pretty much ordered everything I need. I haven't ordered a splash guard for my tires but I'm wondering if I can diy that...

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Jul 08, 2017 5:54 pm

I just picked up an Adaptto mini e and am having little luck getting it to work with my 4t Leaf motor. I can run it in sensorless mode, but autodetect always fails and gives a hall error code. In the health monitor, when rotating the wheel forward, I see halls 1,2,3 in order. Sometimes it reports halls 1,5,6 for some reason (there are only 3 halls). I've swapped the phase wires around to (I think) all the positions and the current one gives the proper sequence when rotating the wheel by hand.

One thing I've noticed is that I only read about 4.1v between black and red of the controller (with or without the halls connected). This was a used controller and the hall plug was cut off and the wires all bundled under some heat shrink with the end of the insulation stripped (shorting out in various ways). Is 4.1v a good value or am I looking at a resistor change in the controller?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Jul 09, 2017 5:34 am

eflyersteve wrote:I just picked up an Adaptto mini e and am having little luck getting it to work with my 4t Leaf motor. I can run it in sensorless mode, but autodetect always fails and gives a hall error code. In the health monitor, when rotating the wheel forward, I see halls 1,2,3 in order. Sometimes it reports halls 1,5,6 for some reason (there are only 3 halls). I've swapped the phase wires around to (I think) all the positions and the current one gives the proper sequence when rotating the wheel by hand.

One thing I've noticed is that I only read about 4.1v between black and red of the controller (with or without the halls connected). This was a used controller and the hall plug was cut off and the wires all bundled under some heat shrink with the end of the insulation stripped (shorting out in various ways). Is 4.1v a good value or am I looking at a resistor change in the controller?
It should not matter what order the halls are in for the Adaptto to work.

If you've already tried all phase combos, try changing the HallOffset value. I've found on mine that doing an Autodetect after changing this value and the phase wire combo can yield different results.
From the manual:
HallOffset, HallReverse, WireReverse – Three settings are responsible for setting up the correct orientation of the Hall sensors with respect to the phase conductors, as well as the reversal the motor phase conductors and Hall sensors. These settings are altered when “guessing” to find the correct phase and Hall wiring combinations. Determined automatically during the auto-tuning the motor.
Apart from that, I would also grab an 'E-bike tester' like this:
Image
I've found mine very useful for testing all sorts of things over the years and it does include a controller tester. Hooking up both the phase wires and the halls will give you a rotational indication to tell you if the controller is outputting the right signals.

In fact, just today I used mine to finish off my latest modification to my Adaptto MiniE powered Fighter. Depending on how you look at it, I could now say I have 6 brakes on the bike. I have my regular front/rear disc brakes, plus regen, but I have 4 different ways of activating regen. Each brake lever has a variable hall sensor for progressive regen braking set from 0-50%. I also have a button for instant 100%, plus my latest addition is now a left hand thumb throttle for 0-100% variable regen braking. It might be a bit over kill for most, but I need all the control I can get when descending 700M+ in one go down the side of a mountain.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Jul 09, 2017 9:04 am

Thanks for the reply. I've tried many combos of those settings and phase wire arrangements and consistently get a hall 'e1' error.

I'll keep fiddling with it and hope something works or just sell it and go back to what was working before.


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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Jul 09, 2017 7:16 pm

Well it looks like I've probably always had a 'bad' hall in my leafbike motor. The performance at 3000 watts was always 'meh'. As it was m first ebike experience, I wasn't sure what to expect until I build my wife a 1500 watt ebike that has much greater acceleration. Now it makes sense. After a frustrating 2 days at trying to get my new mini e to work with this motor, I finally began testing the halls. It looks like the middle hall of the three has issues - I get pulses between the signal (yellow wire) and +5 for some reason. I'm guessing a wiring issue from the factory.

Either way, I've pulled apart the motor and will take it in to work tomorrow to see what's what.

At least it looks like my controller isn't the issue.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Jul 09, 2017 8:58 pm

I bought my hall sensors from Lyen, but Justin at ebikes.ca sells them as well.
Also Justins website tells you how to do the repair and test them as well.

edit
http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicy ... ensor.html

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Jul 11, 2017 8:43 am

I've got 10 coming from Digikey. I pulled my motor apart and tested the halls individually. It seems like all three are flaky - I apply 5v and when I pass a strong magnet over, I only get a small signal between gnd and the signal wire of each, but I get full switching between +5 and signal, but even this isn't consistent. Sometimes I get nothing. Its the weirdest thing. They were harked as Honeywell parts and the motor probably has less than 50 miles on it. I'm hoping that it's not something in my adaptto controller that is frying them, but how often do all three halls flake out on a motor this new (never abused, low mileage, never hot)?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by eflyersteve » Jul 14, 2017 4:26 pm

I got it all sorted out (the wires inside the cable that enters the adaptto are not standard hall colors - blue wasn't connected to anything and I needed to use Orange). It auto detected and seems to work. Just not as impressive as I thought it would be.

Anyone running a 4t on an Adaptto mini-e (unlocked)? Interested in hearing some settings for decent acceleration. Perhaps I need to feed it more than 12s 16aH multistars?

Thanks!

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by amberwolf » Jul 15, 2017 2:22 am

eflyersteve wrote: It seems like all three are flaky - I apply 5v and when I pass a strong magnet over, I only get a small signal between gnd and the signal wire of each, but I get full switching between +5 and signal, but even this isn't consistent.
This type of hallsensor doesn't switch voltage, it switches current, grounding or not grounding the signal output pin.

So you have to have a pullup resistor from signal to +V or there's no current for it to switch, and you don't get a reliable signal.

There's a lot of good testing info on sites like ebikes.ca and even here on ES (in the wiki, or the tech reference area, or the sticky index threads, or looking at thread titles like "how to test (item name here)" or similar).

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by bowers » Aug 07, 2017 5:38 am

Does anyone know what exact type of threads this motor uses on the largest axel side? (Close to M12, but I think they have an unusual pitch)

The threads on that side has given up on me, so I need to refresh them... just not sure exactly what kind of threads they are. (Leafbike said M12 * 1,1 in an email, but I've never heard of M12 * 1,1)

And since the motor is coming off anyways... Has anyone replaced the phase wires in a decent/easy way? The insulation on mine is starting to crack up :/

Thanks!

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Aug 07, 2017 8:52 am

eflyersteve wrote:I got it all sorted out (the wires inside the cable that enters the adaptto are not standard hall colors - blue wasn't connected to anything and I needed to use Orange). It auto detected and seems to work. Just not as impressive as I thought it would be.

Anyone running a 4t on an Adaptto mini-e (unlocked)? Interested in hearing some settings for decent acceleration. Perhaps I need to feed it more than 12s 16aH multistars?

Thanks!
Try running 80 amps. 16AH multistar on your ~65A is probably sagging a lot already though. I would run 20AH or more on an amp hungry motor like this.

65A should be pretty acceptable though. I wonder about your controller tuning. Not familiar with the parameters of the adappto units though.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Aug 22, 2017 11:21 pm

Should be a fine pitch M12, depending on where you live you can go to a Bolt Supply type store and buy a thread gadget and you'd know exactly what it is. The fellow at my store, did a quick check in the parking lot. He had a nice feeler guage type thread gadget with notches in it that you put into the threads. You could also buy it on ebay, but its better to support your local economy.

I was going to say I've been reading up on the Leaf 1500W motor, and I think its darn good. Better to buy this then some 9C clone with 28-30mm lams.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by fussler » Sep 14, 2017 12:48 pm

Hi guys.
I am also a happy leaf owner.
As i run CA3-dp on my 25A Grin controller.
But i am looking for a 60-80A controller with CA-DP compatibility.
Does anyone know of such a contoller?
I really don't have the time ,tools or knowhow to convert my own

Thank you
Hope this is the right place to ask this noob question

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Sep 14, 2017 1:54 pm

fussler - do you want sinewave?
Leaf is direct drive so it really doesnt matter, I wouldnt pay extra to have sinewave over trapezoidal.

Either way Teslanv has some cont's for sale, also Lyen, Luna, Powervelocity all most likely got CA wiring.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Sep 14, 2017 4:33 pm

em3ev sells infineon clones that are CA v3 compatible. See if you can get one with the older wiring that's compatible with this style of hall connector, etc.. because a lot of controller sellers have moved to their own proprietary controller connectors and such.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by speedmd » Sep 14, 2017 7:52 pm

I modded a standard sunwin to adapt to the ca v3. Much simpler than I expected. Some step by step instructions http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-an ... ontroller/ online. You will need to get some of the correct connectors.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Sep 15, 2017 7:10 am

Powervelocity controllers should come with a CA plug, or of course the Phaserunner from Grin.
markz wrote:fussler - do you want sinewave?
Leaf is direct drive so it really doesnt matter, I wouldnt pay extra to have sinewave over trapezoidal.
it doesn't matter in terms of what? Especially wich direct drive the benefits are obvious like more torque and less noise.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by flat tire » Sep 15, 2017 12:53 pm

Sinewave doesn't matter? it's absolutely huge. For one it's very quiet. Smooth response too. I ran a trap controller the other day and was really surprised at the noise.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Sep 15, 2017 1:58 pm

All depends on the price right. If they are close in price then go sine. I prefer a little bit of noise, it doesnt bother me in a direct drive setup. If sine produces more torque as mentioned above thats news to me, I thought it doesnt do anything except smooother and silent. If you want that then spend extra on sine. To each their own.

Interesting Fact - Harley's new electric bike is designed to make noise on purpose.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by madin88 » Sep 15, 2017 3:01 pm

markz wrote:If sine produces more torque as mentioned above thats news to me, I thought it doesnt do anything except smooother and silent. If you want that then spend extra on sine. To each their own.
Yep absolutely (regarding Justins bench tests with Phaserunner).
trapezoidal contol is outdated for electric vehicles.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » Sep 19, 2017 11:05 pm

Oh wow, more torque that is great, learned something new! I will have to search Justins posts now.

I can be a penny pincher sometimes (well more then sometimes :oops: ) for no reason, but when comparing a generic ebay $30 controller like a Sunwin or Greentime, then seeing whats available for sinewave, there is a significant price difference. Unless there are cheap sines available other then the ones I've been looking at Powervelocity, Teslanv, Justin, Kelly.... That is/was my only angle on things. Its got me wondering now, how much extra torque is there with sine, search I must.

Sinewave silence is good over the trapezoidal waveform.
More torque is a great bonuses!

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