Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Electric Motors and Controllers
Rovii
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Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 11, 2017 3:19 am

Technical datas:
- 100 kW peak motor power, 62 kW continuous power
- Induction, PMSM and BLDC motor types
- Support different types of rotor position sensors
- Galvanic isolation between control and power signals
- Battery voltage range 30-125 V
- Continuous motor current 500 Arms, 1 minute peak 800 Arms
- CAN (CANopen) interface
- Liquid cooling
- Dimensions 280 x 205 x 65 mm, weight 4,9 kg

I changed now from Kelly Controls (KHB14601C & KLS14401) to Emsiso controller manufacturer to feed my QS Motor 273 80H motor type.
So I started to make my circuit diagram drawing, how I will connect him to my system!
At the end it looks like the previous controllers before.
But with delivery of controller & CAN/USB converter, no cables where delivered.
Therefore I have to make them of my own.
Attachments
Circuit_diagram_-_PC_connetion_c.jpg
IMG_1023a.jpg
IMG_1023a.jpg (170.46 KiB) Viewed 1749 times
IMG_1226.JPG
IMG_1226.JPG (86.97 KiB) Viewed 1749 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rube
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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rube » Oct 11, 2017 4:28 am

Looks like a really powerful package with a price to match. Cool box, is it laser etched?
Please keep us updated with your setup experience, I'll be reading with interest. Sounds like an option for motorcycles or crazy power people like Luke :D

Rovii
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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 11, 2017 5:06 am

Yes it's laser etched.
Well we will see how powerful it is and yes I keep you informed about the parameterisation of the controller.
It will be fit inside my motorcycle but I only use it for drag racing, nothing more!
Attachments
GRW 2017 Start 012.JPG
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 11, 2017 11:16 pm

The temporary cabeling is done.
The next steps are to charge the batteries and try to connect the controller with the notebook to get an access for parameterisation.
I only want to see that the wheel is spinning, without any stress to controller or motor!
But this will take a while!
Attachments
IMG_1230a.jpg
IMG_1230a.jpg (197.39 KiB) Viewed 1694 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 12, 2017 12:52 am

Im excited to see how it does!! Should be a beast on that controller!
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 13, 2017 12:17 am

Ok, let´s start with the little tutorial of parameterization.
So everthing is hardwired now.
First you have to install the USB to CAN driver on Windows (I used and MackBook Pro with Parallel Desktop and Windows 8.
I only followed the installation setup and it was done very quick.
After that I installed the configuration tool and did it on the same way.
By starting the configuration program it was asking for password, I typed it in and everything was fine.
So I want to continue with the program by making the connection between controller and PC.
There I came to the point t choose the right COM PORT (COM10) but this choice window was empty.
At first I thought I made a mistake by cabling but after a while I remembered to good old Windows time.
Went to the device manager of Windows system, searching for COM device and found out that it was set to COM3.
I changed it, went back to the program, et voila, it was shown after a refresh (button) and I could choise it.
Now I was connected.
With next step I should read out the controller parameters but every time I got the information that session failed.
Again I thought it could be the cabling but later on I found a switch at the USB to CAN device called "Termination".
I switch it on an tried it again with success.
After that I cleared all parameters (recommended by manufacturer) and start to type in different settings like over voltage sensor type, temperature switch etc.
After that I start Operational and the motor made little steps forward and backward.
The test ends with no alarm/warnings.
After that I saved all parameters.
I was very happy with this result!
I end there but there is a lot of to do with other parameters and osci and I think it will take additionally 2-3 hours to understand it!
To be continued ...
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 16, 2017 1:40 am

Now I spent over 6 hours for parameterization.
But the manual I have looks different to the software overview at my notebook.
So some steps I can not fulfill and therefore see no osci values as descriped at the manual!
To parameterize a Kelly Controller is much easier!
Well my actually status now is that the wheel is spinning, when I turn the throttle but very slow!
Also the motor makes much more noises than with Kelly Controller (KLS Type).
Maybe there is something wrong with the hall sensor position!
But there was no point to manage it inside the manual!
But I can remember that during the six hours I found a point like this but do not check it!
To be continued ...
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 17, 2017 12:45 am

After an additional hour I spend on parameterization by resetting all saved values to manufacture settings (3 times).
I got every time a different warning by running auto align function (2 x DC link undervoltage/ 1 x controller overtemperature).
I measured the DC link voltage with 98,9VDC and the undervoltage parameter I read out of the controller was set to 90V.
So I was very condfused.
Today I read the manual again and again!
They made a little note by using hall sensors feedback.
Every parameter setting is written in bold letters but this note is written in thin letters, same as note letters.
So I am pretty sure that I over see this and only choose the sensor type feedback from sub 1 to 6
And maybe these causes to all the different failure types!
Hopefully to see it running correctly by this evening!
But also my software is the newest which not compare to the unofficial manual.
So some button changed or combined.
Also there is not written inside the manual how to set max phase current etc.
To be continued ...
Attachments
0x2040 - sub6.jpg
0x2040 - sub6.jpg (82.98 KiB) Viewed 1553 times
Last edited by Rovii on Oct 17, 2017 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 17, 2017 12:54 am

Rovii wrote:After an additional hour I spend on parameterization by resetting all saved values to manufacture settings (3 times).
I got every time a different warning by running auto align function (2 x DC link undervoltage/ 1 x controller overtemperature).
I measured the DC link voltage with 98,9VDC and the undervoltage parameter I read out of the controller was set to 90V.
So I was very condfused.
Today I read the manual again and again!
They made a little note by using hall sensors feedback.
Every parameter setting is written in bold letters but this note is written in thin letters, same as note letters.
So I am pretty sure that I over see this and only choose the sensor type feedback from sub 1 to 6
And maybe these causes to all the different failure type!
Hopefully to see it running correctly by this evening!
But also my software is the newest which not compare to the unofficial manual.
So some button changed or combined.
Also there is not written inside the manual how to set max phase current etc.
To be continued ...

Good luck sir! When it's figured out, 800amp phase current will make it all worthwhile. :-)
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 18, 2017 2:25 am

Ok, now it worked!
As I wrote the little note sub6 to 6 was my mistake (default value inside was 4096).
Now the auto align function worked correct without warnings and errors.
So I also parameterized the throttle switch and the digital input.
And now the hubmotor will speed up very fast at no load that my trailer began to shake :D !
But I do not really stress him and also I have to manage the parameterization of torque mode, velocity mode and electrical angle of the motor.
There are so much parameters to handle.
To parameterize a Kelly controller is much easier but now I have some more functions!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 19, 2017 2:12 am

Ok, now I also saw some motor values at osci.
But not the same as shown inside the manual.
My problem at the moment is that the controller will not save the target torque and I do not know why.
All other parameters will be saved. So when I read them out I got the actually value but for this parameter it seems to be reset to "0" :evil:
To be continued ...
Attachments
IMG_1280a.jpg
IMG_1280a.jpg (249 KiB) Viewed 1062 times
IMG_1279a.jpg
IMG_1278a.jpg
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii
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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 25, 2017 10:39 pm

Well, after 16 hours of fighting with old documentation and newest installed software I finished now successfully with auto align procedure, checking electric angle of motor, tunning the torque mode via oscillating different characteristics via changing P and I parameters of PID controller to get the best result and parameterizing of throttle switch and digital inputs.
I did all these test at 80A max. Output current but the test where done with half of current.
During this test a 40A rectangular signal will be send to the motor and my trailer began to shaking. So I have to found out what are the best settings for P and I.
At the end I was at P=1000 and I=500.
But important to know is that every system (depending on DC voltage, used motor and controller) will have another P and I setting. And that was my mistake. Because I thought to get the same characteristics as shown inside the old documentation but the documentation will only show you more or less how to handle the software!
You only can found out this setting via the oscillating function inside the controller!
At the moment the controllers max output current is set to 200A (default setting) and also field weakening option is switched off.
Now I had to continue my other work at the bike by compleatly rebuild it, give him a nice black frame cover and check out best positions for all my stuff inside, have to modify the cooling system and so on ...
So big load test will be done earliest on spring next year!
Also later on I will make a short video, how I made the commissioning of the controller.
At the moment I am very happy that system works!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 26, 2017 4:10 am

There is no inherent limit on the number of PID loops a controller can have in its software tuning. If you have the motor spinning, this is a major part of tuning it, and it generally only gets better from there (or just explodes 2nd or 3d dyno pull unexpectedly while the case temp never got warm the instant prior to becoming plasma).
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Oct 27, 2017 5:31 am

A dyno run?
No, never, when I kill him I will do it on track :wink:
But I hope to get a lot of fun with both (motor and controller)!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Nov 02, 2017 1:22 am

Well I think I have now finished the parameterization for torque mode.
So the next steps are that I am waiting for the price of tempsensor type KTY83/122, which is actually not part of the software. Type in my starting current values for next year and rebuild the controller for the moment cause of freezing temperatures!
I know now that he is working.
BTW I measured the battery current at no load and at the moment it reached 35A for short at 124VDC.
Attachments
T500_P1000_I500.jpg
40A @ P=1000 and I=500
T500_P1000_I500.jpg (101.98 KiB) Viewed 1214 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Nov 02, 2017 5:13 am

35amps of no-load seems high. Do you know the electrical frequency you're reaching?
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Nov 02, 2017 5:48 am

Sorry Luke,
I do not know the frequency.
35A DC was the max. current for short I saw at measurement device.
When the 43-45kg wheel starts to spin from 0 to higher rotation.

Andre
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by MotorboaterBen » Mar 05, 2018 9:15 pm

Hey Rovii,

Any updates on the programming process with the em500? I recently got an em150 and will be programming that quite soon.

Best,
Ben

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 11, 2018 6:14 am

Hi Ben,
sorry for my late reply ...
I made long time ago a short movie clip about parameterization but only for torque mode:
https://youtu.be/7ETVvebkJxI

and
https://youtu.be/Si8RN0VzIKM

I needed about 8 additional hours to get the system really running had also a movie clip but without sound ... Sorry

Actually I run the controller in full power mode but without field weakening option!
Tomorrow I will try to make my first test run on airplane landing field and try to find out how many amps will really flow by external current measuring device.

Hopefully I will not destroy the controller or the motor!
Attachments
ZZZ 020a.jpg
ZZZ 020a.jpg (145.59 KiB) Viewed 239 times
ZZZ 036_klein.JPG
ZZZ 036_klein.JPG (148.68 KiB) Viewed 239 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 11, 2018 9:05 am

No reason not to crank field weakening up at least to 20-30% before your test ride. It's not going it hurt any low speed performance, and will make a tremendous improvement in how it pulls on top end.

I'm exicited to see how it does when you're able to get full power into it.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 11, 2018 10:59 am

I will do full power tomorrow @800Arms.
Batteries are charged to 116,5V

But I can only measure via GPS system.
So if I do not destroy the motor I can hopefully make a demo run on German Race Wars event at 10th of May to get a first feeling!

Btw Luke, with 20-30% I think you mean the current, so 800Arms is around 160-240A or do you mean 20-30% of motor rated current?

I thought to start with 5A 🤣 and see what happens!

But at what voltage level should field weakening start? Actually it’s on 90%. Well I think bmw cevolution starts at 70% but only with 50A.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 11, 2018 8:13 pm

Some controllers give "field weakening" in a net amount of amps, some give it in a percentage change of base current.

However your controller software handles "field weakening", especially for a dragster you want to set it for the maximum the motor still keeps making more top-end power with, and typically that means all of the field weakening you can achieve without faulting or motor over-temp before the end of the 1/4mile.

Your bike looks so clean and sexy, excited to see it performing like a rocket!
Rovii wrote:
Apr 11, 2018 10:59 am
I will do full power tomorrow @800Arms.
Batteries are charged to 116,5V

But I can only measure via GPS system.
So if I do not destroy the motor I can hopefully make a demo run on German Race Wars event at 10th of May to get a first feeling!

Btw Luke, with 20-30% I think you mean the current, so 800Arms is around 160-240A or do you mean 20-30% of motor rated current?

I thought to start with 5A 🤣 and see what happens!

But at what voltage level should field weakening start? Actually it’s on 90%. Well I think bmw cevolution starts at 70% but only with 50A.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 12, 2018 11:49 pm

Yesterday I made the first 3 test runs but without field weakening.
Had some problems with the pump which was not working at the beginning, so I was able to destroy the controller without circulating water. I measured the voltage at the pump and it was ok.
But after 1st run the pump was working. So maybe a loose connection? Or dust inside the cooling system which blocked the pump? I really don´t know!
So the first run I did a little bit slowly but reached 150 kph after 410m.
I calculated a top speed of 150-160kph before (less voltage, bigger tire).
Then I forgot to measure the max phase current :(

Ok, after I heard the pump working I decided to do another test run.
But I do not turn the throttle at full power from the beginning, maybe 4-5m far away from the starting point.
After the run the Garmin showed only 110kph and I was sure that will not fit the regular speed I feel!
I also measured 400A max phase current.

So I did another run (3rd) and turn the throttle direct on full open position.
But I did not get a spinning wheel as I had two or 3 weeks ago!
So after half of the distance I thing I reached top speed and after finish line it was only 138 kph.
The bat voltage reduced from 116,5V at the beginning to 109V after the 3rd run.
And I also measured only 414A phase current.
So there are two possibilities in my point of view.
The spinning wheel I got with 100V (4x6S Turnigy) which has 8AWG connection. The 4S lipo has only 10AWG.
So I don´t know if there is a bottle neck due to the cabeling?
Or the spinning wheel I got 2-3 weeks ago where the reason of the under ground!
I can start to make a test run again by 100V and measure the max current again by next week!
I will prepare a short movie clip by the next days!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 13, 2018 12:15 am

Get that phase current turned up from 400amp to 800amp and it's going to be a beast!
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Emsiso emDrive 500 (100kW Peak, 800A/125VDC)

Post by Rovii » Apr 13, 2018 12:31 am

Yes that´s true but actually I can say that the acceleration is better than with KHB 14601 or KLS14401 controller!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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