Puma 500W Rear-140USD. 500W Front, 350W 135USD

[Ypedal]

I cleaned up in here a bit... Miuan dude, show some respect.. we let just about everything slide in this place but the In the Market area we try to keep it clean.. if someone points out a scam that's fine but pissing on an asking price is not cool.. moving on..

[cell_man]

Thanks! I will be in touch! I want to get it here soon. I also need to get a replacement side cover and a set of the new gears for my brothers bike..

No problem, give me a shout and I'll sort something out for you. The side cover might have to be black though, Mac mostly stopped using the silver some time back.

I cleaned up in here a bit... Miuan dude, show some respect.. we let just about everything slide in this place but the In the Market area we try to keep it clean.. if someone points out a scam that's fine but pissing on an asking price is not cool.. moving on..

Thanks Ypedal

[veloman]

I know the newer version Mac has better gears and such, but other than that, are there other differences between the new and the older(silver) ones?

Does anyone know the limits of the older version? (Not that I'm pushing them now, but for future consideration).

I should of got the newer version from ya, Cellman.

[o00scorpion00o]

I know the newer version Mac has better gears and such, but other than that, are there other differences between the new and the older(silver) ones?

Does anyone know the limits of the older version? (Not that I'm pushing them now, but for future consideration).

I should of got the newer version from ya, Cellman.

The limits I'm sure if you are using the older gears are with the controller cell-man gave you, with the settings he programmed it with and with the voltage he recommended you use it with and no more!

The limits with the new gears are with the controller cell-man gives people for that motor too, with the setting he programmed it with and with the voltage he recommends and no more.

I over power my motor and know the risks, if it breaks, it's my fault!

The new mac motors can take a lot of peak power, great for acceleration and level ground, when you get to very long steep hills is where you might have issues with heat, if you live in very hilly or mountain areas, you are best to ask cell man if the slower wind motor is best for you!

I love this motor's power for it's small size is amazing!

I love to cycle and love the mac's ability to free wheel. It makes a huge difference over direct drive motors.


Mark

[cell_man]

I know the newer version Mac has better gears and such, but other than that, are there other differences between the new and the older(silver) ones?

Does anyone know the limits of the older version? (Not that I'm pushing them now, but for future consideration).

I should of got the newer version from ya, Cellman.

The motor hasn't really changed that much other than new gears and a few small revisions here and there which don't really effect power handling. The motors from some time back did use rather undersized phase wire, newer motors use 2mm^2 which is written on the side of the cable and even though some of the phase wires in the past were a bit small, I never had the insulation failing. The main bits haven't really changed, so don't worry, you are not running any sort of high power with your setup, so no problem whatsoever IMO.

To be honest I probably set the 12 fet controllers a bit on the strong side for the Mac but touch wood I haven't received any complaints of broken bits so they seem to be holding up just fine even with pretty high current levels of 40A plus. There's not much that you couldn't fix yourself and I can normally get any parts pretty quick and at a reasonable price, so I wouldn't worry too much. Nobody has even reported melting the solder between phase and the windings, so they can't be using them as hard as I have

[gensem]

Paul, do you happen to have any news about a bigger geared motor? Sized like a clyt HS hub motor, but geared.

[o00scorpion00o]

Paul, do you happen to have any news about a bigger geared motor? Sized like a clyt HS hub motor, but geared.

Haha that would be a frightfully powerful motor!

[cell_man]

Paul, do you happen to have any news about a bigger geared motor? Sized like a clyt HS hub motor, but geared.

I would love for a new higher powered Mac motor to be made and if I can swing a few samples I'll definitely share what develops on ES.

If it happens it will have to be a wider version of the present design for the time being. There is too much work and cost involved to go to a completely new design unfortunately. Mac don't sell big quantities of their Hub Motor and they don't make a big profit on them either. Their primary products are shaft output industrial motors in the 300-2000W rated power range. Those products pay the bills and keep them busy, not building fairly small quantities of geared hub motors in a market that is very competitive with lots of fairly cheap mass produced motors around, unfortunately.

I was only recently discussing getting a wider version of the hub motor made, maybe double the stator width, but you'd have to run a single speed freewheel, use a wide dropout, or possibly extend the motor out on the disk side and use an oversized disk. This could be possible without too much work as you could adapt much of the existing parts, at least for a few samples anyway. I will try to make that happen. There was talk of building a geared hub around their high powered industrial motor, but that would require a new hub design and that is not viable at the moment unless a customer comes along and orders such a design and pays development costs. A Mac with roughly twice the stator and magnets as the 500/1000W should be pretty potent I would think when you consider the 500W are good for 30mph plus for extended periods and 2500W plus for bursts.

[o00scorpion00o]

That sounds cool Paul!

Do you think there could be a wqay for them to water cool a motor and maybe install a temp sensor?

I would imagine a motor like that to sell in very large numbers, the extra development costs might actually make something like that worth while!

Mark

[gensem]

Scorpion a Big Mac (much wider, but not fatter) wouldnt need alot of cooling I think. The real problem is there is no much market for it. But this ll probably change as ebikes get more popular....

[cell_man]

That sounds cool Paul!

Do you think there could be a wqay for them to water cool a motor and maybe install a temp sensor?

I would imagine a motor like that to sell in very large numbers, the extra development costs might actually make something like that worth while!

Mark

I was planning to buy some thermocouple cable and start running some in with some bigger phase wires. Recently I've been playing with a slightly bigger hole in the axle and running 6 pcs of 2mm^2 phase wire (double up the standard wires). You can just about squeeze it in the standard axle but it's very tight, when slightly oversized it's not so bad. I would like to use either thermocouple cable or maybe a thermistor for the temperature sensing.

I've thought about water cooling but there are a couple of hurdles, firstly the only place you could bring in the pipes are the other side of the axle and then there is not much space to bring it out of the axle and into the structure, even then the pipes would have to be very small, I'm not sure they would be big enough to do much meaningful cooling. You could use a non standard disk and bring stuff through an oversized bearing on the disk side, but then you'd need to get the pipes past the clutch, or change the motor so the clutch goes on the freewheel side rather than the disk side. Then you need a way to pass pipes or some kind of heat transfer device, to draw heat out of the stator. All in all it's not easy, the disk and freewheel don't help.

[Whiplash]

Hey cell man, can you check your emails @ emissions free? Thanks!

[o00scorpion00o]

That sounds cool Paul!

Do you think there could be a wqay for them to water cool a motor and maybe install a temp sensor?

I would imagine a motor like that to sell in very large numbers, the extra development costs might actually make something like that worth while!

Mark

I was planning to buy some thermocouple cable and start running some in with some bigger phase wires. Recently I've been playing with a slightly bigger hole in the axle and running 6 pcs of 2mm^2 phase wire (double up the standard wires). You can just about squeeze it in the standard axle but it's very tight, when slightly oversized it's not so bad. I would like to use either thermocouple cable or maybe a thermistor for the temperature sensing.

I've thought about water cooling but there are a couple of hurdles, firstly the only place you could bring in the pipes are the other side of the axle and then there is not much space to bring it out of the axle and into the structure, even then the pipes would have to be very small, I'm not sure they would be big enough to do much meaningful cooling. You could use a non standard disk and bring stuff through an oversized bearing on the disk side, but then you'd need to get the pipes past the clutch, or change the motor so the clutch goes on the freewheel side rather than the disk side. Then you need a way to pass pipes or some kind of heat transfer device, to draw heat out of the stator. All in all it's not easy, the disk and freewheel don't help.

Hi Paul,

I wouldn't care about a free wheel in a motor that size, it would be a motor purely for use as a replacement car, where you need to get around fast, but the main thing is you wouldn't have to worry about over heating.

I wouldn't care about rear disk brake either because with no free wheel and clutch you would have regen and regen is more than good enough along with front disk brake!

If it could be somehow air cooled by having a fan on each side of the motor cover, one that would draw cool air in and another that would suck it out the other side, something simple like that would do a hell of a lot to cool a motor!

Even if the current mac could be cooled and have a temp sensor that you could monitor the temps, or could be used with a future infineon that would limit or kill the power if it got too hot.

But I do understand about development costs and it may never be possible but I bet people would be willing to pay more for a small geared hub that would take a lot of power and not over heat and would shut down if it did!

If it could off road would be nice too,

LOL I'm not asking for much am I ?

[neptronix]

Oh the things i'd do to run 3kW-4kW constant on that little 9 pound motor. Liquid cooling would just make the deal so much sweeter. People already aren't aware that my bike is electric. Stealth 40mph

[o00scorpion00o]

Haha yeah that little mac is just amazing!

I was out for a ride yesterday and I saw a guy on a motorbike behind me, so I opened the throttle to 40 mph, then turned off a side road. Pretending to be peddling of course.

Ha when I watched him pass, he went real slow and had his head turned watching me go down the side road, I was thinking that he should have been looking ahead and not at me lol

If only I could have seen his face through the helmet!

They wouldn't need the clutch and free wheel to take up space on a water or air cooled mac because I don't think anyone that wants that kind of power cares about free wheeling and anyone who does can just use the current mac, you would have regen too which would take a lot of pressure off the brakes!

How would you mount a radiator on a bicycle though? And then you would need a fan if you stop after a long hard hill climb.

Seems like it would reduce efficiency and of course the need for a pump!

You would nearly want a bike frame built for the power with the space for all the extra cooling gear!

[cell_man]

Yeah water cooling would be nice, but can't see it happening just yet, it would be very involved. I will try to get some bigger Mac motors built, but just some samples initially and it is at least a few months off I'm afraid. A wider motor based on the same stator design and yoke but double width is very possible. I am often discussing it with the engineer in Mac so hopefully they'll give in some time soon and give me what i want

I may also have a few things up my sleeve for the standard Mac, but don't want to say too much until it's closer to reality.

Thanks guys for the support

[o00scorpion00o]

Yeah water cooling would be nice, but can't see it happening just yet, it would be very involved. I will try to get some bigger Mac motors built, but just some samples initially and it is at least a few months off I'm afraid. A wider motor based on the same stator design and yoke but double width is very possible. I am often discussing it with the engineer in Mac so hopefully they'll give in some time soon and give me what i want

I may also have a few things up my sleeve for the standard Mac, but don't want to say too much until it's closer to reality.

Thanks guys for the support

Hey Paul no problem!

Well I can wait anyway as I've used up all my funds for some time, I can see this E-Bike hobby ruining many a marriage!

Bigger motors are fine, but would be a lot heavier.

Again I don't think there would be any need for the clutch and free wheel and that should save some space. I doubt anyone would be concerned about free wheeling, that's where the current mac comes in!

If they could make a mac, big or small that could take 3+ kw continuous and wouldn't burn going up a mountain, then I think they would make the development costs back in a very short time!

[neptronix]

Again I don't think there would be any need for the clutch and free wheel and that should save some space. I doubt anyone would be concerned about free wheeling, that's where the current mac comes in!

Ya know.. it won't save much space in reality. You still need a good sized keyway surface for the planetary gears. Thus, the planetary gear assembly won't be able to shrink by much.

No clutch/freewheel would make for a motor with a lot of drag anyhow. It would appeal to a limited set of customers and i doubt that MAC would see a profit in it.

Liquid cooling coming out of the freewheel side would take my vote. The space required for the coolant tank and 'radiator' would be quite minimal. Just look at any high performance PC liquid cooling setup.. quite compact.

[o00scorpion00o]

Liquid cooling coming out of the freewheel side would take my vote. The space required for the coolant tank and 'radiator' would be quite minimal. Just look at any high performance PC liquid cooling setup.. quite compact.

You mean ditch the sprocket for a single speed ? that would be fine by me for a set up that is just for getting around and not for cycling!

PC's don't have the amount of heat that would be generated in a hub motor @3KW+ constant or climbing a mountain, I could imagine it having to be big enough, and would cause a fair bit of wind resistance. It would also have to have a temperature controlled fan at times when the bike would be going too slow!

[neptronix]

No, i'm talking about having the liquid cooling on the outside of the motor - the only place where it is effective!

[o00scorpion00o]

No, i'm talking about having the liquid cooling on the outside of the motor - the only place where it is effective!

Of course, but what I mean is the radiator would have to be big to cool a motor going up hill, and would need a decent fan to keep it cool if you stop half way up or have to slow down!

[veloman]

I think the Mac motor as it is, is great for an E-*BIKE*. Not too many people need to go 30mph up mountains.

Not saying don't develop stuff, but I am saying I'm very happy with my Mac, even on 1000 watts.

[o00scorpion00o]

I think the Mac motor as it is, is great for an E-*BIKE*. Not too many people need to go 30mph up mountains.

Not saying don't develop stuff, but I am saying I'm very happy with my Mac, even on 1000 watts.

Yes the mac is a super motor for sure!

And we know we're pushing them to the limits they are simply not designed for! But that's part of the fun and if mac can make motors that can take that abuse then isn't that good for everyone ?

[cell_man]

My plan is to chip away at the present motor and hopefully come up with a few new options and improvements in the next few months. Hopefully at the same time I can get some of the custom parts arranged for the bigger motors. Just have to see how it pans out. The only way it will likely happen is if I put my money where my mouth is and meet the MOQ from Mac's suppliers for parts and/or pay machining/tooling costs.

I'm bound to be biased, but I do like how the Mac performs and do prefer it to a DD motor, but my experience with DD motors is limited to the MXUS DD. To me the Mac is plenty fast enough for a bike and seems to produce much stronger acceleration for similar input power levels when compared to the DD, or at least it certainly feels that way to me. The problem with speeds much over 30mph is that it requires a lot of power, so you've either got a small range or a big expensive battery. A cruising speed of low to mid 20s mph is a good compromise IMO, you can get a reasonable range with a moderate sized battery and travel time is still pretty good. It's nice of course to have the potential for quick acceleration and high speeds when required and from my experience, the high speed Mac Kits still deliver good efficiency when speeds are reduced and power used moderately. Just set it to speed 1 and you'd never know you were running a high power setup, apart from the rather brisk acceleration of course and that can be easily tamed with a gentle throttle hand.

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Paul,

Yes I completely agree, for the same power the mac is defiantly without doubt more powerful!

The magic pie is a great motor too for a dd, lots of torque but it will only do 32-33 mph max, where the mac does 38-41 mh max!

The pie doesn't get hot either unless going up a16% mountain full throttle!

I get around 10-12 miles max out of my 16s 10 ah pack at about 35-40 mph, and that's not bad really.

I could probably get 20 miles at 20 mph. At that speed the mac only uses around 400-500 watts on level ground which is good and it's nice sometimes to go slow and take in the scenery!

I think if the current mac could be water cooled rather than a bigger motor, which would probably still burn if going up a long mountain might be a lot better and maybe not so expensive to modify the current motor ?

A free wheeling mac capable of sustained 3-4kw, just imagine ?

Paul maybe you could start a new thread when you have decided what you will do, just to get feedback from everyone on weather they would be interested in such a motor. It might give you an idea if it would be worth while ?