Geared Ebike Kit, DD Kit - 150USD

[cell_man]

Hi Folks,

I've sourced some very nice complete Ebike Kits and as always I'm offering them at an excellent price

Both the geared kit (26" rim) and the direct drive kits are very nice quality, with hand built wheels, complete with everything you need except the battery. I can also arrange kits with different sized rims, from 16-28", but they will need to be ordered especially, so might take a little time. Price should be very similar for the different sized rims. I'll do a few tests later and if anyone has any questions please feel free, will do my best to answer them.

Here's the Direct Drive 500W 36V Kit (both front and rear wheel available and in stock) which comes complete with 22A controller, thumb throttle and a pair of brake levers:

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Here's the 36V 250W geared kit (both front and rear wheel available and in stock), complete with 14A controller, thumb throttle, pair of brake levers and PAS sensor:

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Don't let the low price fool you. These are the exact same kits that are available from some popular online sources at MUCH higher prices I don't buy junk and it's only by keeping my margins low and overheads small I can offer these great quality, complete kits, at these prices. Shipping is from China.

[cell_man]

I've got the following info about the kits:

Direct Drive:
Wheel weight 6.5kg
Motor weight 5.8kg
Double walled rim with 12G spokes
No load speed 280rpm at 39.2V
Standard 6 bolt disk attachment.

Gear Kit:
Wheel weight 3.7kg
Motor weight 3.1kg
Double walled rim with 12G spokes
No load speed 255rpm at 39.2V
Standard 6 bolt disk attachment.

The geared motor spins up pretty much silently and has virtually no drag when not under power. It's as low drag and quiet a motor as I've seen. Standard 135mm rear dropout for both DD and gear motors, disk compatible in both front and rear installation.

[Whiplash]

Hey, that DD looks VERY similar to a certain online kit supplier! Is it what I think it is?

[cell_man]

The kits are not 9C if that is what you are thinking, but they are sourced from the same manufacturer that supplies at least 2 popular US online kit suppliers.

[Whiplash]

Ah I was hoping! How fast is the DD on 48? My brother is looking into a setup... Can they be gotten less controller?

[cell_man]

I measured 280rpm no load at 39.2V on the DD. You're looking at about 26mph give or take at 48V and just over 20mph at 36V. I need to check the pricing situation on the motor only, but I think you'd be looking at about 120USD for the motor fitted into a rim and save 1kg on the shipping weight as well. Express shipping to USA is not cheap for a fairly heavy item like this, but if you can wait for Sea Freight it will be just 39USD for motor only and 43USD for complete DD kit. Geared kit is of course cheaper to ship as it's about 3kg lighter.

[Whiplash]

Thanks! I will let him know... Hopefully I can get one of these sold for you!

[ebikemike]

I've been lurking for a while but this may be the best deal I've seen so it's time to jump in. How long does sea shipping take?

they are sourced from the same manufacturer that supplies at least 2 popular US online kit suppliers.

Can you say which ones?

[Whiplash]

X2! ^^

[whiteblade]

Hi

Could you price me up a rear DD for the Philippines

Will be looking to buy 1 Middle or end of august if you still have stock.

Cheers

Whiteblade

[LI-ghtcycle]

Please put me down for a front geared hub kit, PM sent.

These do come with SLA batteries correct?

Thanks!

Dayn

[cell_man]

Please put me down for a front geared hub kit, PM sent.

These do come with SLA batteries correct?

Thanks!

Dayn

Sorry no SLA. I can get SLA batteries here pretty cheap, but I don't think it is worth your while shipping them as they are so heavy.



I don't want to upset anybody, so better I don't say any more on the subject of which other companies in the US use this supplier.

I've got a few pics of the motors as requested and I did a quick road test to see how it performs. As I mentioned the design of the DD rear motor means there is very little dishing required on the wheel build, but it is very well centred, with zero runout and nicely tensioned spokes. The geared motor does require some dishing, but again it's nicely done.

DD Pics:

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Geared Pic:

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The road test showed the DD kit to be a bit slower than I was expecting, but I don't know why I was surprised, the no load rpm tallies with the on road speed. With a 36V battery which actually had 36V under load, a speed of about 28kph or about 17mph was seen. With 16S LiFePO4, about 51V under load, I was seeing about 39kph or about 24mph. The DD had very good torque pulling away from a standstill. I've already spoken with my supplier to see what other rpm options are available and will report back with some more info shortly. Please let me know if the available motor speeds are acceptable or if something a bit different is required. Will do my best to give a good price on a bare motor if that's what you are looking for as this DD might be better suited to a higher voltage, but need to check with my supplier as to the price difference compared to the full kit.

The geared motors are European legal spec so they will do about 25kph, 15mph at 36V and about 20mph at 48V. Both the geared and DD kits put a very moderate load on the battery pack.

[georgefromvt]

I'm very interested in the geared system. How do you shift from one gear to the other? Also it requires some "dishing"? What is dishing and how much does it usually cost. Would my local bike ship have the necessary wrenches for this type of wheel?

[shinyballs]

very nicely taken shot of the motor esp. showing the offset spoke position, is 12 gauge the thickest that can fit through the hub's spoke holes?
a higher speed DD version would be a good option, offering more choices...

[mastershake916]

I'm very interested in the geared system. How do you shift from one gear to the other? Also it requires some "dishing"? What is dishing and how much does it usually cost. Would my local bike ship have the necessary wrenches for this type of wheel?

It is not a multi-geared motor. Geared simply implies that a motor is turning gears that turn the hub. Dishing is adjusting the spoke tension as to move the rim side to side in relation to the hub. Any full service bike shop will be able to dish a wheel.

[garyhgaryh]

Where can i get this kit?
Gary

[mwkeefer]

Send cell_man a PM = )
-Mike

[garyhgaryh]

Send cell_man a PM = )
-Mike

thanks.. what's a DD Kit? Not understanding that acroymn "DD".
Thanks,
Gary

[mwkeefer]

It's a 500w "Direct Drive" - it means the hub is the whole motor... the smaller motors are Geared so they have a tiny motor inside and a set of platatary gears usually...

DD are usually heavier but able to handle more power, while geared a lighter and can be louder (gear whine) but won't handle the same type of current or voltage in most cases without smoking (which doesn't mean literally smoking, it just means getting hot enough to fail... usually happens to me > 30mph on 20" geared and > 25 on 26" geared)

-Mike

[garyhgaryh]

Thanks mike, good explaination. I think I want the DD kit.
Gary

[mwkeefer]

Gary,

The right kit would depend on your intended use, battery voltage, required / desired speed and range and oh yea... wheel size.

I have some experience with the geared motors being offered (or darn close to same) but the DD are not a model I have familiariaty with so I can't help but paul did a nice job of documenting them early in the thread and providing real world tech info and no load RPM (nice Job BTW paul, bout time someone posted No Load RPM, Currents for various voltages on their motors!).

If you want to indicate what your trying to acheive a bit, I would be happy (as I am sure cell_man aka Paul would) to make recommendations based on your goals

-Mike

[cell_man]

Thanks Mike for your help

Gary,
I think Mike has already covered most things and there is data posted earlier that should give you a good idea of the expected performance at different voltages. Any further questions please give me a shout.

Thanks
Paul

[garyhgaryh]

Thanks Mike and Paul,

I'm want to achieve about 30-40 mph with my bikes. What are the avantages of a geared vs DD hub? I'll be getting a 24 volt 15-20ah lifepo4 battery. Should I reconsider other voltage option? I want my range to be about 15-20 mph.

Does the prices include shipping? If not, how much is shipping? (zip code is 94578 in CA)
Gary

Ps. Never mind, I noticed you already mentioned shipping.

[cell_man]

Hi Gary,

you are going to need more than 24V for pretty much any Ebike Hub Motor I'm aware of to hit 30mph plus. Even the high powered Hub motors generally require more like 48V to achieve 30mph or thereabouts. I would have thought you would need more than 500Whrs to get a 15-20mile range at 30mph plus, more like 700-1000Whrs.

I'd recommend doing some research on the forum but I would have said you would be better to aim for 30mph as it takes a lot more power and battery to get to 40mph. You'll likely need a battery of about 48V 15-20Ah. The Mac motor that I also sell can do about 30mph on 48V and about 23mph on 36V. Generally the DD motors need more than 48V to achieve 30mph, unless you are talking about a big Crystalyte motor.

Neither of the kits in this thread can achieve 30mph on 48V, they are rpm limited and would require higher voltage. If I can source a higher speed DD motor, it might be ok for maybe 27mph on 48V. The small geared motor is not really suitable for 30mph. It might do it with enough voltage, but you are pushing the limits and it will just be a matter of time before something fails.

Shipping options to USA for DD kit:
EMS 152 USD Few days, less than 1 week
Air freight 149 USD 2 weeks
SAL 83 USD Very variable. 4-8weeks
Sea freight 43 USD 6 Weeks plus

Shipping options to USA for Gear Motor kit:
EMS 109 USD Few days, less than 1 week
Air freight 107 USD 2 weeks
SAL 60 USD Very variable. 4-8weeks
Sea freight 33 USD 6 Weeks plus

[pengyou]

I am also interested in this. I have a 16" 7 spd Dahon that I would like to electrify. I live in Shanghai now. As soon as the expo is over, I will be able to take my folding bike on buses and subways again. If it had a motor it would be the ideal form of transportation to get around Shanghai, or even other cities in China when I travel. I prefer to travel by train.

I am hoping for a cruising speed of 30 mph and want to put the hub motor on the rear. I am a little spooked about putting one up front on a bike, though it would help with the weight distribution. I will be buying lithium batteries. I am open to either 48 or 60 volts. I think 30 mph on a routine basis would be easier from a 60 volt motor than a 48. I have heard that geared motors have better acceleration than non-geared but tend to have lower top speeds. Is that true?

My second option - I don't think a Dahon with no suspension would be so comfy to sit on for more than an hour - is to pick up an older electric motor scooter here sans motor and batteries and redo it. I can buy a beautiful new motor scooter here for 2,500 rmb (US$ 350) but the hardware is all crap and is designed to be used for 10km at a time, then rested. Also, beautiful new motor scooters are desired by thieves. Old, ugly ones are not such a concern for thieves. Is a cruising speed of 40 mph possible on a scooter? with what size motor (v&w)? I would not be able to take it on buses or subways, but hey, why would I need them?

Maybe...I will do both? The scooter would be more fun to putz around the countryside here