Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by drifter » Sep 09, 2010 6:54 am

Kepler,
thanks for the fast reply and the offer, but short of $ at the moment and yes I do get a lot of satisfaction by doing it myself (RC model builder and Kayak builder). I think I will have a go at doing my own and if that fails then maybe by then you might have another production run done.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by vancblue » Sep 15, 2010 11:56 pm

Hi Kepler,

A few questions:

Motors
I noted that with your drive you only allowed for shaft diameters the size of 10 mm or 8 mm (via a bushing). You were originally testing the Hyperion Z4045-10 with a 6 mm shaft. By not including another bushing to reduce the shaft diam to 6 mm are you now implying that the 10 mm diam shaft of the Turnigy HXT 63-74 motor is a better (and stronger) choice?

Charger and PS
For RC newbies like myself, what balanced charger and power supply will you eventually be recommending on your website to charge the Turnigy 5000mAh 6S Lipo packs?

Kepler Interface
When your interface is ready, will you only be providing replaceable chips (for different settings) or will you also be providing the means to program the device oneself?

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by ejonesss » Sep 16, 2010 8:59 am

for the price of nearly $300 au does it come with the motor and esc?

also does the unit wear out tires any faster?
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Sep 16, 2010 11:17 pm

vancblue wrote:Hi Kepler,

A few questions:

Motors
I noted that with your drive you only allowed for shaft diameters the size of 10 mm or 8 mm (via a bushing). You were originally testing the Hyperion Z4045-10 with a 6 mm shaft. By not including another bushing to reduce the shaft diam to 6 mm are you now implying that the 10 mm diam shaft of the Turnigy HXT 63-74 motor is a better (and stronger) choice?

Charger and PS
For RC newbies like myself, what balanced charger and power supply will you eventually be recommending on your website to charge the Turnigy 5000mAh 6S Lipo packs?

Kepler Interface
When your interface is ready, will you only be providing replaceable chips (for different settings) or will you also be providing the means to program the device oneself?
The Z4045-10 I tested with was fitted with an optional prop adapter which is 8mm. I can supply a 6mm adapter if also. It means you would need to slide the shaft through 15mm to pick up the 10mm bearing. This is quite easy to do. Nothing to do with strength, just difficult to cover all bases.

Zs4045 doesnt have a prop adapter option and has the shaft sticking out on the bearing side anyway. However, I am yet to confirm this, but the Zs4045 might have a different mounting hole spacing to the original motor. Original motor was 25mm hole spacings. The Hobby City Motors are typically 30mm. If someone could confirm Zs4045 is different to this, I would be most greatfull.

The interface will not have a fancy GUI for programming to start off with, but this maybe developed in the future. It will be accessable to those with programming skills though. I believe the software is written in C++ with basic peramiters exposed for easy fine tuning. I have never programmed in my life but have no trouble making simple perameter changes like current limit and ramp speeds. This side of interface still need to finalized. Replacable chips are also an option for those who want a change but dont want to atempt a programming change.

In relation to battery charging, this chargerhttp://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ccessories and this power supply http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... 00~240v_5Aare good entry level items
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Sep 16, 2010 11:25 pm

ejonesss wrote:for the price of nearly $300 au does it come with the motor and esc?

also does the unit wear out tires any faster?
You make it sound like you would expect for that exorbitant price, it should at least come with the a motor and ESC. Sorry but no it doesn’t.

In relation to tire wear, if kept to around 1000W, tire wear is minimal. Higher outputs may introduce some slip and some possible tire wear. Tire life might be reduced by half in some cases but for the sake of $30 tire, it’s not really an issue.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by kevo » Oct 03, 2010 9:41 pm

Kepler,
Love the friction drive. Only feedback is any improvements on optional friction element (3M glued stair skid) is appreciated. The ones I'm using w/ 6S battery tend to wear out very fast. Heard that someone was using sanding belts which I intend to try. Any advice (slow acceleration, alternative friction arrangements) is greatly appreciated from you and your users.
Thanks,
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Oct 04, 2010 11:01 pm

Kevo,

Glad you are enjoying the drive. 6S and a servo tester throttle makes it difficult to keep the power down to point whereby the grip tape is going to survive. I find it copes better on 5S and heaps better with the contolled input from our new interface. That doesnt help you at this stage though. I would try some belt sander material attached with carpet tape. I havent tested this yet but I think its worth a try. I am also looking at a knurled steel sleave to go over the motor but I would need to keep the wall thickness down as much as possible. I dont have the capability to machine this with my equipment so I will need to talk to the machine shop that I use to see what they could do.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Hillhater » Oct 05, 2010 6:47 am

If you have a compressor /air system, you could try grit blasting the motor casing (stripped down or well taped up !) with some coarse grit.
This would give a textured surface, but i dont know how long it would last.

Have you tried deck tape for skate boards ? ...some tough sticky on that ! :wink:
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Hillhater » Oct 18, 2010 9:30 pm

Another possible motor option.. anybody tried this one ?
Aeolian C6374-170. 63mm dia 170kV , with skirt bearing..$55.0
http://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001220805
Image
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by deVries » Oct 31, 2010 12:33 pm

Subject: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)
Kepler wrote:Kevo,

Glad you are enjoying the drive. 6S and a servo tester throttle makes it difficult to keep the power down to point whereby the grip tape is going to survive. I find it copes better on 5S and heaps better with the contolled input from our new interface. That doesnt help you at this stage though. I would try some belt sander material attached with carpet tape. I havent tested this yet but I think its worth a try. I am also looking at a knurled steel sleave to go over the motor but I would need to keep the wall thickness down as much as possible. I dont have the capability to machine this with my equipment so I will need to talk to the machine shop that I use to see what they could do.
Hi John,

1) Any updates on traction/grip ideas?

2) Any updates on the new ramp-up interface or cheap ESC's that are known to work?

***IMPORTANT***
3) Could you please edit in a weekly update (or as often as is needed) on your first post in this thread about current parts availability or delivery ETA's (for out of stock items) with any design & pricing changes?

Thanks, deVries

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by RayB » Nov 08, 2010 6:55 am

Hi Kepler,

I am watching your product with eager anticipation. I am developing my methods for venturing into RC land and your product looks like the easiest way for me to do so. An additional query I have to my initial one is again about installation. If you remember I asked about placing it within the rear triangle on a large frame. With some changes I am curious instead if you think it could be modified to be mounted on a front wheel system perhaps up to the front center brake/fender mount point?

I would then secure it as well to a front rack, well thats the initial thoughts anyways.

Have you ever tried this or would you see your system not being a very good design for a front wheel drive?

Many thanks,

Ray

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Nov 09, 2010 12:27 am

deVries wrote:Subject: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)
Kepler wrote:Kevo,

Glad you are enjoying the drive. 6S and a servo tester throttle makes it difficult to keep the power down to point whereby the grip tape is going to survive. I find it copes better on 5S and heaps better with the contolled input from our new interface. That doesnt help you at this stage though. I would try some belt sander material attached with carpet tape. I havent tested this yet but I think its worth a try. I am also looking at a knurled steel sleave to go over the motor but I would need to keep the wall thickness down as much as possible. I dont have the capability to machine this with my equipment so I will need to talk to the machine shop that I use to see what they could do.
Hi John,

1) Any updates on traction/grip ideas?

2) Any updates on the new ramp-up interface or cheap ESC's that are known to work?

***IMPORTANT***
3) Could you please edit in a weekly update (or as often as is needed) on your first post in this thread about current parts availability or delivery ETA's (for out of stock items) with any design & pricing changes?

Thanks, deVries
Hi deVries,

So much is going on with the drive design at the moment. Although the basic concept and operation is the same as the original, a big effort has gone into refining the drive to a point whereby it is suitable for sale to general public as straight bolt on and go solution as apposed to a mechanical set suitable for the hobbyist only.

To be honest, the project has shifted from a build project to a commercial venture hence the reason why you don't see a constantly updated build log anymore. My apologies for this but I certainly will be posting up details on the finished product and will be making mechanical sets available for people to build their own motor and electronics combo into the mechanics set.

In relation to having product ready for sale, The drive should be ready for sale in the first quarter of next year.

This will include:
=> fully built ready to go drives. (Includes motor, ESC, interface, throttle) Battery and charger excluded
=> Mechanics sets (Assembled and anodized only)
=> Interface with throttle

In relation to the original drive, I have two sets that I was holding onto for special projects but are happy to sell these at this stage. One set is anodized dark green and the other set is un anodized. If anyone is after a set, let me know.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Nov 09, 2010 12:34 am

RayB wrote:Hi Kepler,

I am watching your product with eager anticipation. I am developing my methods for venturing into RC land and your product looks like the easiest way for me to do so. An additional query I have to my initial one is again about installation. If you remember I asked about placing it within the rear triangle on a large frame. With some changes I am curious instead if you think it could be modified to be mounted on a front wheel system perhaps up to the front center brake/fender mount point?

I would then secure it as well to a front rack, well thats the initial thoughts anyways.

Have you ever tried this or would you see your system not being a very good design for a front wheel drive?

Many thanks,

Ray
Hi Ray,

I have made some riser plates that allowed the drive to fit on taller framed bikes (see my avatar but ignor the rear belt driven section)
I set this up on a 22" framed mountain bike and used the drive clamp to clamp the seatpost so it would sit as low as possible. (Drive clamp without adapters is 38mm)
I think you would have a hard time adapting it for a front wheel configuration and honestly wouldnt recommend it.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by RayB » Nov 09, 2010 6:44 am

Thanks for the answer on that Kepler. It sounds like I can get it working on the large frame but only for a rear install. I will give this some thought for a few days. My main goals for making it front wheel drive is so I can keep the fenders. I'm an all weather commuter and its required :) ..

I had thought setting it up on the front in front of the fender on the top of the wheel and have it retract into a rack bag of some sort for when rainy weather hits.

The other problem I would have with a rear install is interference from a rear rack that I need to carry everything to work.

Oh well, back to the thinking table.

Cheers

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by hillzofvalp » Jan 01, 2011 6:20 pm

Hillhater wrote:Another possible motor option.. anybody tried this one ?
Aeolian C6374-170. 63mm dia 170kV , with skirt bearing..$55.0
http://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001220805
Image
I'm also wondering about this motor.

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Jan 01, 2011 8:10 pm

That motor looks perfect. I am going to order a few of those. It looks like its the same as 63-74 from Hobby City, just better looking in black. Also 170kV is perfect for 6S setups.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by amberwolf » Jan 01, 2011 8:48 pm

You'll probably want to wash off the motor's can sticker, though, before applying any friction material, so it doesn't cause separation. ;)

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jan 02, 2011 12:16 am

amberwolf wrote:You'll probably want to wash off the motor's can sticker, though, before applying any friction material, so it doesn't cause separation. ;)
Very true AW, that is the first thing you must do with any of these motors used with the Kepler Drive (EBoost). :)
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by amberwolf » Jan 02, 2011 12:24 am

Well, some of them in pics don't seem to have much in the way of labelling, or it's off the center section...this one is so wide it almost covers the can width, though. I have yet to actually ever hold one in my hand, though.

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jan 02, 2011 12:47 am

amberwolf wrote:Well, some of them in pics don't seem to have much in the way of labelling, or it's off the center section...this one is so wide it almost covers the can width, though. I have yet to actually ever hold one in my hand, though.
I'll be very interested to see how these motors work out, they look pretty promising, and the more suppliers, the better.

Yeah, the Turnigy motors have some labels in the same area IIRC, just not as big. Black looks nice thought! 8)
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Bigmunch » Mar 11, 2011 3:31 pm

I have read the thread and will be interested in purchasing a complete kit with battery,motor and throttle setup when you have them put together, This seems like it will work best on a road bike as opposed to a trail/mountain type bicycle.
Curious as to what brand of bike/tires will allow for the best range and speeds.
Great work !!
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » May 15, 2011 5:09 pm

Latest batch of drives are nearly ready for sale. Unfortunately the interface is still not quite ready but I should see them in a 2 or 3 weeks. Been testing the drive with a simple servo tester, ramp control, hall throttle setup. This works fine for the person willing to act as the current limiter and who understands how to ride around the RC friction drive idiosyncrasies.

Latest features include the following:

> Re designed for quick assembly and improved access in the electronics section
> Flat rear plate to fit battery to if wanted.
> Single swing arm with integrated spring return mechanism.
> end stop adjustment on swing arm for more accurate setup.
> Motor launch ramp mechanism installed so that the motor can be setup to completely disengage from the tire when coasting.


All drives as supplied 95% assembled. Swing arm is removed for postage only

All drives come anodised. See the photo below for available colours.
P1010034.jpg
P1010034.jpg (60.07 KiB) Viewed 1893 times

Price for a mechanics only drive is $350 USD

P1000889.jpg
P1000889.jpg (50.93 KiB) Viewed 1898 times
P1000880.jpg
P1000880.jpg (66.12 KiB) Viewed 1893 times
P1000901.jpg
P1000901.jpg (55.27 KiB) Viewed 1898 times
Mid mount option is also available upon request. This option adds $25 to the above price and give you the option of configuring the drive for mid mount or a rear mount.
Production model plates are anodised black as apposed to the carbon fibre look in the picture below.
P1000474.jpg
P1000474.jpg (60.03 KiB) Viewed 1898 times
P1010020.jpg
P1010020.jpg (123.71 KiB) Viewed 1893 times
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by deVries » Jun 14, 2011 10:01 am

Kepler wrote:Unfortunately the interface is still not quite ready but I should see them in a 2 or 3 weeks. Been testing the drive with a simple servo tester, ramp control, hall throttle setup. This works fine for the person willing to act as the current limiter and who understands how to ride around the RC friction drive idiosyncrasies.
Hi Kepler,

I've not been able to follow your progress lately, so "the interface" is what's been in beta since the end of last year? This is the item that you're getting some help with from an unnamed source, right? If yes, could you give us an update now about what your expectations are for this interface too. I think you were planning to offer this "throttle-esc controller" to ES members for their custom FD builds too as a separate item to purchase, so please let us know what your plans are along those lines too please. 8)

What is the "ramp control" that you use now with the servo/hall setup?

Thanks! :D

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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by Kepler » Jun 16, 2011 4:15 am

Hi de Vries,

The interface has been hard going but the good news is the first 5 units are finally on their way to me. Bad news is that they are all taken however the next batch is now underway. These units are still hand made due to low numbers and basically not having the resources to build any other way at this stage. Hopefully this will quickly change as there is way too much work in these to manufacture economically by hand.

As I have always said, the interface has been specifically designed to fit my drive as a means to sell my drive to the general public. However, I certainly will make it available to ES members (if they can be bothered waiting any longer :oops: )

In relation to the ramp control, I was referring to the Turnigy servo speed controller used in conjunction with a servo tester and hall throttle as a cheap interim setup while waiting for something more sophisticated to come along.
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Re: Kepler Friction Drive System (sale thread)

Post by jonathanm » Jun 16, 2011 4:27 am

I just skim read this whole thread, so sorry if I missed this, but what is the *quietest* motor that will work with this drive setup? I think the engineering is totally sweet, but I have never seen an RC drive setup and I'm a little paranoid about the noise....

Cheers

J

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