Bafang Geared, Panasonic Li-ion Complete Kit $350

[AdamS]

Hi,

I am blowing out some pre-production front and rear ebike kits on ebay. Starting price $350.00. Both front and rear kits include a Bafang (8FUN) geared hub motor, matching motor controller, Alex rim, Kenda tire, 36V9AH Panasonic celled Li-ion battery, charger, custom battery carrier, throttle, brakes, PAS kit and all the other small parts that make for a complete, ready to install kit.

Front Kit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140439058775&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

Rear Kit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140439068774&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

The auctions are set for one of each style but I have more if anyone is interested in buying more than one at a time.

Please ping me with any questions.

Thanks,

Adam

[jag]

These look like nice kits.

Is the battery a Li-Ion Manganese? Or Cobalt? (At 5.5lbs I was guessing is not Iron-Phosphate)
How much does it weigh with the holder?

[georgefromvt]

How do you send a PM? I keep clicking on AdamS name, get to the send message box but can't generate his name in the send box? Very frustrating! What am I doing wrong?

[oatnet]

How do you send a PM? I keep clicking on AdamS name, get to the send message box but can't generate his name in the send box? Very frustrating! What am I doing wrong?

Look for the little square that says "PM" on the right side, at the bottom of the block of text with avatar/location/# posts etc. Click on that button.

-JD

[AdamS]

Here is some information on the batteries: http://www.blog.hybridep.com/technical- ... formation/

They weigh 5.5 pounds.

[jag]

Here is some information on the batteries: http://www.blog.hybridep.com/technical- ... formation/

They weigh 5.5 pounds.

Thanks for the link to battery cell info. I take it the long rectangular battery pack in your kit is built from the 18650 laptop type LiCo cells in a 10s4p configuration. The 5.5lbs I assume is for the battery pack alone. This gives an energy density of 130Wh/kg, quite good for a built pack. Though the flipside of using the LiCo 18650 cells is a moderate 1-2C discharge rate, and fewer discharge cycles than a LiFePo4.

My question above was for the weight of the battery and holder shown in the pictures of your listing. It looks like the controller may also be a part of the holder.

With a 5.5lbs/2.5kg battery, 3.5kg motor (according to Bafang websites) and I hope no more than 1-2kg for the battery holder/controller, you may have one of the more light weight kits on the market.

[AdamS]

The battery weighs 5.5 lbs without the carrier. Yea, lightness was very important in the design and specification of the entire kit.

[neptronix]

I hate to say anything negative in a 'for sale thread', but i for one am leary of the battery. I can't see it as having the correct discharge rate for the job, and it seems like the battery would be short lived due to that. The panasonic data sheet specifies that it is a lithium-ion battery.. not a lipo/lifepo; a chemistry well known for it's low discharge rate ( which is why you see a lot of it in laptops and gadgets ).

My suggestion to you is to consider offering the kit sans batteries. We all know that bafangs are decent, and the other stuff you are offering up is pretty standard issue electric bike kit stuff too.

[AdamS]

Hard to find real brand name batteries that run this good in this weight range. For the price I am selling them for it is hard to beat. Here are some real world tests. http://www.blog.hybridep.com/real-world ... ery-tests/ In any case the idea behind these kits was electric assist bicycle, not electric motor scooter. The brand name of the battery and the overall weight of the system were prime factors in choosing this battery system.

I will post some separate prices later today.

[neptronix]

It still sounds like 9ah of lithium-ion is pushing it past the safety limit. People have problems with 10ah of lifepo4 @ 36v sometimes! All it takes is an uber-hill to find out where the limit is. If the batteries can't hold up... they may be cheap, light, small, and convenient, but ultimately they're worth $0.

[AdamS]

I guess under the right circumstances all batteries/motors/controllers will fail. However these batteries have a pretty sophisticated BMS and protection circuitry. I have sold and used them in San Francisco with no problems. YMMV

[neptronix]

Even if they have a sophisticated BMS and protection circuitry, if they can't put out the amps needed, it's gonna have problems with cutting out as the battery ages.
The pack may work for now, but as lithium packs age, the internal resistance level increases and they discharge steadily less and less..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_io ... resistance

My main concern is that these batteries may become a problem in a year or less. One easy solution to this would to be to run two batteries in parallel. It increases the price, but under $700 for 18mAH is still a hell of a deal.

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong. Everything i've read about lithium ion batteries says that their discharge rate is subpar, which explains why they see a lot of use in computers, but not anything involving heavy electric motor usage.

[HTB_Terry]

These cells are not the same as used in old laptops. Panasonic, Sanyo, and Samsung all make quality LiCo cells suitable for ebikes. Several companies are using the panasonic cells because of the quality, UL and other approvals, quality control and the fact they are made in Japan. These include Urban mover ebikes and the Ampedbikes pack. We've used the Sanyo and Samsung cells in packs. Tesla Motors uses this type of cell in their $100,000 car. No, they do not last as long as LiFePO4, but the packs are smaller, as light or lighter, and you have more flexibility in the shape of the pack. There will always be a market for LiCo and Lipoly when size and weight is a consideration, however you do need to stay with good companies with a proven track record. The packs should last a couple years with proper care and a 9-10AH pack can output 15-20A with no problem.

[GaryB]

anyone have any first hand reviews of this kit ?

[dhmartens@yahoo.com]

I bought this kit a few months ago and it is working perfectly so far. It runs under 18mph or over 17mph at its fastest and pedaling hard I can hold 22mph as measured by my Garmin 76s gps. I calculated my gas savings at $80 to $120 so far. I first installed it on a target type Schwinn girls bike for a week, and then on my Trek 3700 MTB(China Made) Shimano/etc $259 on sale and 25lb weight. The trek used a 31.6mm seat post so I bought 4 longer bolts at Lowes for $2 for the mounting hardware. (which vibrates loose once a month - use thread lock)The whole system weighs under 40lbs and I can carry it up stairs. The big selling point for me over the Clean Republic bike was the low price, a throttle and not a switch, and Panasonic Brand Batteries. I stress the Panasonic brand because I have had good luck with my Panasonic 1997 36" hdtv, stereo, Cordless phone, electric razor. The stuff seems to last at least 13 years and rates very high in consumer reports. I am confident the batteries have the same quality control that protects their good name. So far so good. I treat the battery like a new born baby and feed it after each ride and remove it from the bike when its locked up. I'm in my late 40s 6'2 190lbs and reside in The San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles. I timed 2 "racing" speed runs to my gym at 4.2 miles The bike took 19 minutes, the BMW 328ic took 13 minutes.

I made a few adjustments to the bike that I found necessary.

1) Bell Light set $26 at walmart - so I can ride at night, which I love to do now
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bell-Sports-L ... t/14003642

2) Serfas full suspension Saddle - relieves lower back pain from long bumpy rides with back pack
http://www.amazon.com/Serfas-Suspension ... 62&sr=1-10

3) 2 bike locks to prevent theft, added a Kryptonite U lock.
http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Keeper ... 28&sr=1-10

These do add weight but I also cut off the brake cut off switches, My brakes have the shifters built it.
http://www.ev-universe.com/brakecutoffswitch.aspx
Cutting them off lets the throttle still work.

The other big challenge is finding the best route to your destination. I use back roads that cross main roads with a traffic light. I also use the many bike lanes available in this area, even some improved sidewalks. The padded seat helps with some of the bumpy deteriorated back roads. When its cold 4 layers is not enough, you will need some type of windbreaker.

A few of my riding styles are to
1) not pedal at all, you arrive without any sweat.
2) Pedal at the start to save some battery.
3) use the battery to start and pedal after you reach 17mph.
4) Motor and pedal to go as fast as you can.
5) don't even use the motor.

What is Priceless, pulling into a gas station and looking for an outlet.
Also stopped at an intersection or by a bus stop full of people, lift the front wheel up a millimeter and hold still and spin it while holding still so it squeals. everyone looks in amazement. I also notice I can keep up with city buses. At 35mph they pull away from me but I catch up at every stop they make.

The motor is very quiet and no one has even noticed it is electric. I think dogs can hear it. It is louder when its starting up 1 to 5 mph. There is more stress on my bike as I ride it more. I had to tighten the rear brake as it is wearing down. My stock rear wheel needed truing but I fixed that my self. I also keep 50lbs of air in my tires so it goes faster. At 30lbs its a softer ride maybe slightly slower. A 29mph Head wind while riding slightly up hill reduced my speed to above 15mph. The times I ran it completely out of Juice it slowed to 15mph. I have only encountered one big hill so far and I pedaled very lightly and it went up at full speed. I raced a 12 year old on his BMX bike, I used only the motor and no pedaling. He pulled ahead and head a 10 meter lead for about 50 meters before he tired and I passed him.

My conclusion is so far so good. I read about people with Clean Republic who's battery quits after a month but this Panasonic gives me confidence. If the battery does quit in the future I will get the cells my self or have someone upgrade it cheap, under $200. The added thrust to the bike makes me feel 20 years old again. I am in much better cardio shape from all the riding I do now. If I have to rest I am still traveling 17mph. I can get where I am going with out sweating. I studied electric bikes for months and this is the best deal for a Bafang and Lithium Ion. Naturally people want to go faster but I question a bicycle is a good platform for higher speeds. A moped Scooter or Motorcycle has a more durable suspension. In California this Bike kit needs no M1 or M2 drivers license and no registration. I do ride with a helmet and obey all traffic laws, except when racing.

Doug

[wineboyrider]

Doug you should do some motor kit testing on this forum. I think you have the right stuff...