New prices for Headway cells!!!!

[crashnfool]

We got them for you.. check out the links for prices!!

http://currentevtech.com/Lithium-Batter ... 4-p40.html


http://currentevtech.com/Lithium-Batter ... 4-p42.html

[Lessss]

Wow a 1 C discharge rate.

[only1jake]

Where did you get that from lol?
They are 5C continuous?

[Lessss]

NOW IN STOCK!!
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$18.00
SKU:
H38120S
Qty:




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Model : Headway 38120S 10AH cell with Screw Terminal Nominal Capacity 10AH @1C discharge rate Operating Voltage 2.5V-3.65V Dimensions diameter of 38 (mm) height of 146 (mm) weight 307g IR 1.8 Max continuous discharge 5C Max pulse discharge 15C

[Jeremy Harris]

Headways have been around $18 per cell for a couple of years now, so what's new? I'm pretty sure that's the price I paid for these cells back in 2009.

Seems to be old news to me, same old cells, same old specs, same old prices.

Jeremy

[only1jake]

Wow, oops. Misread that haha
I'm not really interested anymore... I better go order my Lipos.

Off Topic - But, this is what we need; Packs which are similar in chemistry and C rate for size/weight etc. to LiPOs But are SAFE. So if accidentally over discharged etc, no fire

Headways are good for larger applications, bms is more complex though, because of the amount of cells

[Lessss]

Headway cells REALLY need to get down to $1/AH

[oatnet]

Nominal Capacity 10AH @1C discharge rate

This stat is Nominal capacity, and has nothing whatsoever to do with continuous or burst discharge rate. Nominal capacity is typically given with the discharge rate that was used during testing to yield that capacity.

[cell_man]

So what price should a US based company that has had to purchase a large quantity then wait a month or 2 for them to arrive before they can start selling their products? If everyone thinks that the way forward is to buy everthing direct from the factory and nobody should make a profit, the EV industry is doomed IMO. I personally wouldn't bother selling headway as it is a waste of time and the price I'd pay from the factory for a big order is higher than I see some selling them for a few loose cells.

I don't know why many seem so down on a company selling EV products at what seems like a not unreasonable markup. I mean it' s not like he's taking your money, then buying the stock and shipping it (or not as the case may be), like a certain infamous ex headway supplier....

[frodus]

Try getting replacement cells from headway directly.....

Dave Kois stands behind hsi products and will warranty, so will Manzanita Micro. They also provide a high level of tech support, design reccommendations and other services.


I've been left out in the dust MYSELF by Victoria when I tried to get replacement cells and some BMS harnesses..... haven't heard from her in over a year now. I spent over $25k for batteries and she just ignored me, time and time again. Others have had similar issues.

[Lessss]

LifePO4 needs to beat SLA pricing eventually. To do that it needs to be as close to 1$/hr as it can get. The lack of reliable BMS's and the as of yet unproven lifespan means the general public won't adopt. Middleman sellers need to sell at whatever price they can afford but need to really push back the feedback on the need for better pricing (and BMS relaibility) to the factory.

[Doctorbass]

BMSbattery are offering the 10 Ah 38120 cells at 12$ each right now but they have 9 Ah

that is equal to 13.30$ for 10Ah

doc

[neptronix]

Off Topic - But, this is what we need; Packs which are similar in chemistry and C rate for size/weight etc. to LiPOs But are SAFE. So if accidentally over discharged etc, no fire

A pre-made headway pack would be like twice the size or so compared to lipo... damn cylindrical cells.
Also, you can run lifepo4 without a BMS just fine, it would just be more hassle to do so. If you had 14s with a 14s hyperion charger, it wouldn't be too bad tho IMO..

I don't know why many seem so down on a company selling EV products at what seems like a not unreasonable markup. I mean it' s not like he's taking your money, then buying the stock and shipping it (or not as the case may be), like a certain infamous ex headway supplier....

I agree. That is actually a very good price from an American company, you save some $ on shipping also.
Nothing can compete with hobbyking lipo on price, but headways are a good deal for lifepo4.

[auraslip]

Most people think lipo is great, and I agree. However, most people don't do a life cycle assessment when considering the price. For example, lipo will last 300-500 cycles while lifepo4 will last 1000-2000.

In any case, I do agree with Jermery AND Cell_Man. Currently, I the 10ah headway cells are $16 shipped from bmsbattery(I have spreadsheets of cells prices including shipping from all the retailers I can find). However, as cell_man said, it's better to deal with local business. Is it worth saving $100 to give up a warranty, and have to wait a month for shipping?

[cell_man]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is better to deal with a Local Business, I'm not local. I'm merely pointing out the fact that it's not so easy for a local business to compete on price with a Chinese supplier, like myself. Companies need to make money and it is kind of sad that so many on ES begrudge anyone making some profit, yet most are employees for companies that wouldn't be there to pay their salary if they didn't make some money.

Don't get me started on low price lipo that turns up with 10% crap packs, relatively short lifecycle and is not classed as a safe battery by any standards. If you asked the Manufacturer of these low price LiPo cells to supply Ebike packs made from RC Lipo, they would tell you they are not safe and not recommended for other reasons also. They manufacture large format LiPo cells for EV, they are not as high C or same type, or as cheap, but they are fit for purpose. I've spoken with the Manufacturer and that is what they did say. Many people seem willing to accept the shortcomings of cheap RC Lipo and enjoy the high performance it offers at a good price, but don't kid yourself that they are truly better value in the long run or that the shortcomings are there, they are real and there is a real possibility of a fire. There are pros and cons, it's not all good.

High level cell manufacturers put a massive effort into testing, QC and process control to minimise the things that are really important to cell performance, like consistency, safety and reliability in the long term. You just will not get that with mid range manufacturers (but LiFePO4 is inherently quite long lived if treated reasonably) and you are dreaming if you think a low cost RC LiPo pack will come even close to being comparable.

I hope that nobody's house gets burned down or people injured because of following the advice they receive on ES related to RC LiPo. It's all very well and good if you have some electronics and electrical knowledge, experience and take precautions, but most do not and frankly don't have a clue what they are doing or the chances they are taking.

[snowranger]

I think one of the primary reasons a lot of people are going to the HobbyKing lipos is because of the lack of good and reliable LifePO4 alternatives. Although Headway makes good cells ( I have a pretty reliable pack), I had to take a chance buying it from what I did not know at the time was an unscrupulous dealer. Don't get me started on my first lfe pack, which ended up as a brick even though it was from the most reputable duct tape battery seller out there.

I'm now going with HK lipos for my next build because of what many members are reporting as a product with high performance and good value, and HK actually has decent customer service.

[neptronix]

Don't get me started on low price lipo that turns up with 10% crap packs, relatively short lifecycle and is not classed as a safe battery by any standards. If you asked the Manufacturer of these low price LiPo cells to supply Ebike packs made from RC Lipo, they would tell you they are not safe and not recommended for other reasons also. They manufacture large format LiPo cells for EV, they are not as high C or same type, or as cheap, but they are fit for purpose. I've spoken with the Manufacturer and that is what they did say. Many people seem willing to accept the shortcomings of cheap RC Lipo and enjoy the high performance it offers at a good price, but don't kid yourself that they are truly better value in the long run or that the shortcomings are there, they are real and there is a real possibility of a fire. There are pros and cons, it's not all good.

Yes, they are temperamental, and a BIG liability, but fantastic if treated properly.
Let me tell you something though. I for one would be willing to pay for large format, mid-high quality lipo. 10ah or 20ah cells would relieve all of these balancing issues and make lipo much safer. Not having cells mismatched by ~500mah would further increase the amount of safety.

The benefits ( weight, discharge, size ) far outweigh the risks in my opinion, and the price is a bonus.
Would you sell large lipo cells if you had the opportunity to do so? dunno if you saw that thread about the Chinese 20ah packs a while ago, but there is a hell of a lot of interest in cells of that size.

[auraslip]

I think one of the primary reasons a lot of people are going to the HobbyKing lipos is because of the lack of good and reliable LifePO4 alternatives. Although Headway makes good cells ( I have a pretty reliable pack), I had to take a chance buying it from what I did not know at the time was an unscrupulous dealer.

Nailed it. For the same reason I'd consider cell_man local. He posts on here. He understands our ebike needs. If you have a problem, I trust he'll help. And not to be xenophobic, but he speaks english well(not good).

For the same reason, It's good to see US sellers of headway.

[Jeremy Harris]

Nailed it. For the same reason I'd consider cell_man local. He posts on here. He understands our ebike needs. If you have a problem, I trust he'll help. And not to be xenophobic, but he speaks english well(not good).

For the same reason, It's good to see US sellers of headway.

Not surprising that cell_man speaks good English, as he is English, but who just happens to be living in Shanghai. IIRC his name's Paul.............

Jeremy

[cell_man]

Nailed it. For the same reason I'd consider cell_man local. He posts on here. He understands our ebike needs. If you have a problem, I trust he'll help. And not to be xenophobic, but he speaks english well(not good).

For the same reason, It's good to see US sellers of headway.

Not surprising that cell_man speaks good English, as he is English, but who just happens to be living in Shanghai. IIRC his name's Paul.............

Jeremy

Yes that's right Jeremy on both counts Paul, originally from London, of Irish descent, living the dream in Shanghai

[cell_man]

Don't get me started on low price lipo that turns up with 10% crap packs, relatively short lifecycle and is not classed as a safe battery by any standards. If you asked the Manufacturer of these low price LiPo cells to supply Ebike packs made from RC Lipo, they would tell you they are not safe and not recommended for other reasons also. They manufacture large format LiPo cells for EV, they are not as high C or same type, or as cheap, but they are fit for purpose. I've spoken with the Manufacturer and that is what they did say. Many people seem willing to accept the shortcomings of cheap RC Lipo and enjoy the high performance it offers at a good price, but don't kid yourself that they are truly better value in the long run or that the shortcomings are there, they are real and there is a real possibility of a fire. There are pros and cons, it's not all good.

Yes, they are temperamental, and a BIG liability, but fantastic if treated properly.
Let me tell you something though. I for one would be willing to pay for large format, mid-high quality lipo. 10ah or 20ah cells would relieve all of these balancing issues and make lipo much safer. Not having cells mismatched by ~500mah would further increase the amount of safety.

The benefits ( weight, discharge, size ) far outweigh the risks in my opinion, and the price is a bonus.
Would you sell large lipo cells if you had the opportunity to do so? dunno if you saw that thread about the Chinese 20ah packs a while ago, but there is a hell of a lot of interest in cells of that size.

Well I would like to develop the battery business more and offer more options, but it costs a lot of money to buy sufficient quantity to be competitive. Not to mention it's also a big chance if they then turn out to be crap. I don't like selling stuff that goes wrong, it makes me feel bad and is a real PITA. A123 cells just do not seem to go wrong and that's good for me. I'm not interested in stringing together packs from the cheapest stuff I can find. There's enough already doing that and it just doesn't appeal to me. Let the bargain hunters get on with it, maybe their second pack will be from me

Big format cells are good, but they also have drawbacks. Cylindrical cells are good in some respects, not so good in others. Pouch cells have advantages.... you get the picture. It is very simplistic to say this is the best and that's that. There are pros and cons for every format and chemistry.

[neptronix]

Well I would like to develop the battery business more and offer more options, but it costs a lot of money to buy sufficient quantity to be competitive. Not to mention it's also a big chance if they then turn out to be crap. I don't like selling stuff that goes wrong, it makes me feel bad and is a real PITA. A123 cells just do not seem to go wrong and that's good for me. I'm not interested in stringing together packs from the cheapest stuff I can find. There's enough already doing that and it just doesn't appeal to me. Let the bargain hunters get on with it, maybe their second pack will be from me

Big format cells are good, but they also have drawbacks. Cylindrical cells are good in some respects, not so good in others. Pouch cells have advantages.... you get the picture. It is very simplistic to say this is the best and that's that. There are pros and cons for every format and chemistry.

I suppose you could buy a couple samples here and there and find yourself a nice large format lipo over time. Go buy some packs and ride on them for a few months maybe. The discharge rating, high voltage, low weight, and lower cost of lipo makes up for the cycle life in my opinion, and i think a lot of people agree. There has got to be some company out there that's making good lipo; i've seen good lipo being parted out from industrial telephony systems and backup power systems recently.

Here is the thread i was referencing: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23029

BTW, what are the disadvantages of large format pouch cells? in my opinion they seem like the holy grail.

[neptronix]

Or if you can make 20ah A123 cells magically appear, that would be cool too

[oatnet]

Or if you can make 20ah A123 cells magically appear, that would be cool too

Paul has already done that trick once but I don't think he can pull it off again!

-JD

[cell_man]

Yes I may well get the 20Ah A123 cells again, but they are not going to be as cheap as HC LiPo and price seems to be the number 1 priority for most of the HC LiPo flock