Crystalyte Motors,NEW APM's all in stock !

[slayer]

I just want to add that the cycle analyst direct plug in (CA-DP) will work except the speedometer not working everything else does and you could make mod inside the controller to make it fully fonctional


Also for those who know that now they can buy the cycle analyst with the speedometer sensor seperate (CA-DPS) and they will have every feature

[maxwell65]

I just want to add that the cycle analyst direct plug in (CA-DP) will work except the speedometer not working everything else does and you could make mod inside the controller to make it fully fonctional


Also for those who know that now they can buy the cycle analyst with the speedometer sensor seperate (CA-DPS) and they will have every feature

do you have pics and instructions to make the sensor less controller fully functional with the CA? we neeeeeed toooo knooowwww

[wojtek]

I think i saw somewhere the instructions from ebikes.ca on how to do it. It is just that I don't want to open up the controller and do it myself as it will probably void the warranty + i don't feel strong in the micro-soldering and electronics...

I just want to add that the cycle analyst direct plug in (CA-DP) will work except the speedometer not working everything else does and you could make mod inside the controller to make it fully fonctional


Also for those who know that now they can buy the cycle analyst with the speedometer sensor seperate (CA-DPS) and they will have every feature

do you have pics and instructions to make the sensor less controller fully functional with the CA? we neeeeeed toooo knooowwww

[whatever]

stainless steel spokes??? stainless = brittle over time = breakages
surprised crystalyte would even supply stainless with all their years of experience
stainless = bad idea

[slayer]

I just want to add that the cycle analyst direct plug in (CA-DP) will work except the speedometer not working everything else does and you could make mod inside the controller to make it fully fonctional


Also for those who know that now they can buy the cycle analyst with the speedometer sensor seperate (CA-DPS) and they will have every feature

do you have pics and instructions to make the sensor less controller fully functional with the CA? we neeeeeed toooo knooowwww

This is the part you need to change : the speed wire from the controller ...the wire speed is at the hall sensor you need to put it where he explains (Justin Lemore) he is showing all the other functions like throttle over ride and all but this is the only mod needed the speed wire...


Part of the appeal of the CA-DP installation is that it picks up the motor speed information from the motor hall signals rather than requiring an external spoke sensor and magnet. However, in a sensorless controller there aren't any hall signals as such. With the previous incarnation of the analog Crystalyte pedal first controllers, there was still a signal line that would toggle at each commutation and could serve as a speedo pulse, but it was prone to glitching at startup and causing false speed readings in the 100's of mph.

On these new boards, there is an LM339 comparator chip that compares the motor phase voltages to a synthesized neutral voltage and the three outputs are conveniently brought out as 3 test point pads on the ciruitboard, so you can trivially solder the yellow CA-DP wire into one of these to get the motor speed reading. From my testing the pulses are very stable even at low speeds (3-4 mph) and during startup:

Speedo%20Connection.jpg (69.95 KiB) Viewed 666 times

this is the thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26336

[maxwell65]

stainless steel spokes??? stainless = brittle over time = breakages
surprised crystalyte would even supply stainless with all their years of experience
stainless = bad idea

i thought that stainless steel spokes were of Superior quality,,,so what material do we look for in spokes? update,,,i spoke with my pro bike mechanic and he informed me that stainless steel spokes is the way to go,,,,all the best spokes are stainless steel,,,and if you look down at the next post by EMF,he really seems to know his stuff.

[EMF]

I think stainless spokes are the best material when compared to chrome or zinc plated ones - those spokes I consider inferior. The computer technology is there now to control the amount of nickle to a gnats ass and therefore ductility of stainless, to render the brittleness a moot point. Used to be when it was not so well controllable, I suppose one could get some bad stainless. Having said that, it is my understanding that too much nickle was thrown in to make sure the stainless met the spec. Now, they can control it and no longer guess and save a lot of money. ( I use a lot of stainless steel in my work )

Maybe there is something better now than stainless for spokes - I don't know- but I would not lose sleep over a wheel built out of stainless spokes.

[itselectric]

I just want to add that the cycle analyst direct plug in (CA-DP) will work except the speedometer not working everything else does and you could make mod inside the controller to make it fully fonctional


Also for those who know that now they can buy the cycle analyst with the speedometer sensor seperate (CA-DPS) and they will have every feature

do you have pics and instructions to make the sensor less controller fully functional with the CA? we neeeeeed toooo knooowwww

This is the part you need to change : the speed wire from the controller ...the wire speed is at the hall sensor you need to put it where he explains (Justin Lemore) he is showing all the other functions like throttle over ride and all but this is the only mod needed the speed wire...


Part of the appeal of the CA-DP installation is that it picks up the motor speed information from the motor hall signals rather than requiring an external spoke sensor and magnet. However, in a sensorless controller there aren't any hall signals as such. With the previous incarnation of the analog Crystalyte pedal first controllers, there was still a signal line that would toggle at each commutation and could serve as a speedo pulse, but it was prone to glitching at startup and causing false speed readings in the 100's of mph.

On these new boards, there is an LM339 comparator chip that compares the motor phase voltages to a synthesized neutral voltage and the three outputs are conveniently brought out as 3 test point pads on the ciruitboard, so you can trivially solder the yellow CA-DP wire into one of these to get the motor speed reading. From my testing the pulses are very stable even at low speeds (3-4 mph) and during startup:

Speedo%20Connection.jpg

this is the thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26336

slayer:
you need read further on the post. There are NO solution for this. There are NO LM339 chip in the new sensoreless controller. You simple CANNOT hook up a CycleAnlayst onto the new sensorless controller.
Ken

[slayer]

oups Silly me loll
So sorry for Justin but that new apm looks interesting
sorry for me too cause i tired of spending ... loll

well for now i have most of the features with a seperate speedometer ...i will wait for next year maybe

[kriskros]

i have thge hs3540 sensorless...also have Lyens sensorless controller...also have the CA direct plug in.... iuse the separate speed cable and EVERYTHING works perfectly

[Ryank]

Just received the shipment Y/D (6-2-11)!!
Everything was in the package and looks good....
Now I'm gonna put it on my GT Zaskar/Xtracycle free radical monster and see how it runs.....

Just waiting on the battery kits from Headway Headquarters (two 36V 40160 kits).......Oh, and some clear weather!!

[gerrydesign]

Email sent.

[nicobie]

pm sent...

[jimw1960]

Does anyone know if there are any issues with dropout spacing when using an 8-speed freewheel with these new HS motors? I am about to order a freewheel for my motor and want to know before I spend the money.

[maxwell65]

hi all,,,

ok here it is from the horses mouth,,,i finally mounted a HS sensor-less motor and a clyte 48v45amp controller,,,and it runs smooth as silk and is fast as well and to top it all off, good torque,,,, as far as im concerned there is no reason whatsoever to go with sensored unless of course you don't want to change controllers and use a regular sensored controller with the 5 hall effects wires,,,,but for those on the fence you will not be sorry with the sensor-less set-up,,,im really impressed with how smooth the starts are,,,,unable to tell a difference between sensored and sensorless,,,any one care to comment?

[methods]

there is no reason whatsoever to go with sensored unless of course you don't want to change controllers and use a regular sensored controller with the 5 hall effects wires,,,

The benefit of buying a sensored motor is that it is compatible with any sensored/sensorless BLDC controller on the market - new or used. I think that you will also find that as power goes up (think 100V 100A) the somewhat small jerks and shakes you feel now sensorless will be greatly amplified. That said - if someone is in the market now looking for a great price for a simple and reliable setup there is something to say about going sensorless.... less wires, no chance of halls blowing, easy to configure and change motor direction.... All good things for someone new to ebikes

I still think that if given the option to manufacture the motors with sensors you should ALWAYS do it - BUT... that does not mean that motors without sensors are not a good buy for the right application. Of course - one could always install sensors down the road if one wanted to.

(disclaimer - I sell and promote sensored motors so I am biased..... and we are in Maxes sales thread so I am playing nice.... )

-methods

[liveforphysics]

Sensorless = worthless IMHO.


It can only guess rotor position by sniffing the BEMF with the comparator board. No wheel motion, no BEMF, and only guessing at rotor position and hoping it gets motion.

For a high power setup, this just fails all over the place.

If you get a flux vectoring controller, THEN and only then does it make any sense to be sensorless.

[oatnet]

hi all,,,

ok here it is from the horses mouth,,,i finally mounted a HS sensor-less motor and a clyte 48v45amp controller,,,and it runs smooth as silk and is fast as well and to top it all off, good torque,,,, as far as im concerned there is no reason whatsoever to go with sensored unless of course you don't want to change controllers and use a regular sensored controller with the 5 hall effects wires,,,,but for those on the fence you will not be sorry with the sensor-less set-up,,,im really impressed with how smooth the starts are,,,,unable to tell a difference between sensored and sensorless,,,any one care to comment?

Since you ask, Yes.

On an HS/HT motor WITH the hall sensors installed, you can use ANY sensored controller. OR you can use the xlyte sensorless controller you just tested (simply leave the halls disconnected) and it will behave EXACTLY like the sensorless motor you just tested.

On a motor WITHOUT hall sensors, you can ONLY use xlyte's sensorless controller, or Lyen's. Therefor, the sensorless motor has less functionality because you can't use 99% of the controllers out there, and sensorless provides less performance/efficiency. The only upgrade path is to fix the motor by installing the sensors the factory left off. If you don't want to upgrade to get more performance later, and you just want a 72v40a commuter (as I like to build) it makes more sense to buy a lighter, cheaper 9c that will give you pretty much the same speed and torque. The whole point of going with the heavier xlyte is because it can stand up to more abuse - that only a non-xlyte SENSORED controller can supply.

It sucks that Kenny of xlyte resorted to this trick, in order to recapture the overpriced market share he lost when significantly cheaper competitors showed up. That is why I am BOYCOTTING xlyte these days - I bought (3) 8x8 9c from methods, but didn't buy in on methods' ultra-cheap sale for the new xlyte's even though they were sensored. It is worse that xlyte stuck folks like you, who brought cheap xlyte to E:S in the past but didn't understand the implications of sensorless, with reduced-functionality motors. However, I also hate for newbies who don't know any better to get stuck with them too, and maybe get turned off to the hobby.

-JD

[slayer]

Me i don t buy that you are limited because you have a sensorless and you know less because you want one ...i have one sensorless hs3540 with Lyen controller (kellycontroller have some too http://kellycontroller.com/72v-sensorle ... 64_67.html)

before that i had a 5304 (still have it ) and that was 6 years ago i did not use the option of buying all the controllers that exists ...my original crystalyte controller still works so if i change my new sensorless in 6 years i will be happy with my choice even if sensorless are off the map because you guys want to boycott. (i don t beleive it for a minute but just for saying)

[deVries]

If you get a flux vectoring controller, THEN and only then does it make any sense to be sensorless.

Are these available now (or soon will be) for most ebike level applications? Motor limitations? Cost? Sourcing?

I think Maxwell could probably offer some motors with halls too? Of course, not everyone will demand the higher performance of a sensored motor if the sensorless has some simplicity enhancements such as lower failure rates vs sensored & less repair issues. In other words "failure prevention" by not having halls & wiring to fail in the first place.

Perhaps sensorless has a lot of room for future improvements too to somehow smooth out the jerky & start-up issues in future upgrades too? Are these sensorless controllers upgradeable?

But! Maxwell says this already about this sensorless controller: i finally mounted a HS sensor-less motor and a clyte 48v45amp controller,,,and it runs smooth as silk and is fast as well (its raining today so in a few days i will post my top speed,,,,but it seems to be faster than my 5303 and this controller is 45amps where as my other controller was 35amps,,,so I'm sure the 10 amps is giving me the extra speed im sensing... i have heard reports that even at the same amps the new HS is faster) and to top it all off, good torque,,,, as far as I'm concerned there is no reason whatsoever to go with sensored unless of course you don't want to change controllers and use a regular sensored controller with the 5 hall effects wires,,,,but for those on the fence you will not be sorry with the sensor-less set-up,,,im really impressed with how smooth the starts are,,,,unable to tell a difference between sensored and sensorless

Here are some valid or "funny" reasons to go sensorless that Lyen uses to promote his controller:

(I realize 3 & 7 don't apply to xlyte.)

1. You want to make more space in the motor axle for for thicker phase wires
2. You hate hall wires
3. You have a RC motor (Turnigy & Astro in this case)
4. You want to try something different
5. You think sensorless is cool
6. You are unable to figure out how to wire the sensor wires to the controller with the correct sequence
7. You want to have a backup controller just in case
8. You think sensorless is more reliable since no hall sensors and/or wires can get damaged easily by heat & water

[methods]

This is the meat and potatoes of it.... (see quote below) though I am continuing to do business with xlyte myself since Kenny tends to be more reliable than all of the other guys I have dealt with. He can be tricky... but he wont down right screw you. If I were a consumer it might be different - but as a small time re-seller I could tell you true horror stories of dealing with 9C and others.... who will hang you out to dry.

Sorry for discussion in your sales thread Max but you did clearly ask for comment and open the debate.

-methods

It sucks that Kenny of xlyte resorted to this trick, in order to recapture the overpriced market share he lost when significantly cheaper competitors showed up. That is why I am BOYCOTTING xlyte these days - I bought (3) 8x8 9c from methods, but didn't buy in on methods' ultra-cheap sale for the new xlyte's even though they were sensored. It is worse that xlyte stuck folks like you, who brought cheap xlyte to E:S in the past but didn't understand the implications of sensorless, with reduced-functionality motors. However, I also hate for newbies who don't know any better to get stuck with them too, and maybe get turned off to the hobby.

-JD

[slayer]

If you get a flux vectoring controller, THEN and only then does it make any sense to be sensorless.

Luke you never worked for public ...you would be surprised how they choose sometimes ...only to not have the little occasional jerk sometimes on a slight uphill ...well gess what we are not all talking about a drag racing ...we have legs to give a little push when needed. And with the power it provides you don t need it for long ...mine delivers 2500 watts at 48 volts with lyen unmodified that is more than enough for the rest of us .. no offence but we let you be ...let us be too

[wojtek]

On a motor WITHOUT hall sensors, you can ONLY use xlyte's sensorless controller, or Lyen's. Therefor, the sensorless motor has less functionality because you can't use 99% of the controllers out there
-JD

hmm.. i guess it might just be wording. What you mean is compatibility not functionality - two different things. When you say functionality, it makes no sense.

I have not tested the sensorless yet [waiting for ages to get them from Crystalyte Europe] but i ordered one crystalyte and one Lyen for my projects [to compare]

[Spacey]

Are you STILL waiting for xlyte europe to get their crap together and send you your motor...surely not?

I would be interested in the difference between Lyens Sensorless and Xlyte Sensorless.

I for one like sensorless as I have had a few problems in rainy UK with my 9C's messing up with Halls.

[wojtek]

LOL
i am !
and the lyen extra controller i ordered with all extras, probably got lost on the way. It was shipped a month ago and there is no trace of it in luxembourg.

So f***** annoying! i started my projects way before Doc discovered KMX trikes, he is now breaking speed records and i am f***** waiting.

if there was an icon with (frock all) , i would use it now.

Are you STILL waiting for xlyte europe to get their crap together and send you your motor...surely not?

I would be interested in the difference between Lyens Sensorless and Xlyte Sensorless.

I for one like sensorless as I have had a few problems in rainy UK with my 9C's messing up with Halls.