Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS fit most of the frame UPDATE 2013

[whereswally606]

It is normal that you killed some drill bit since the metal of these torque arms is domex wich is similar to the one used in the tools... and normal quality drill bit !
No prob to drill holes but they must not be too close to the corner of the axel slot. preferably closer to the external diameter.

I drilled two M5 holes into DrBass' TAs and then threaded them M6. No problem, as long as you use the right tools. I used a vertical press drill with cobalt - steel drill bits. I took one of the axle washers and positioned it where the axle would be. Then drew a circle around it. I positioned the drill in such a way that the holes are 1mm out of the circle to make sure the bolts would not interfere with the washers. When drilling, I cooled using some cheap ATF mineral oil.

Sure Henk, i know it is possible to do it given the right gear, I was in a bind of wanting to get out riding and not having the money to get a proper drill. So i was wondering whether a couple of variant designs incorporating m5 holes would open a great market for our good doctor here. Don't mean to add complication just its easier to use a common drill and bit with the torque arm as a guide to drill through the alu than it is to go through the torque plate itself.

will use a proper cobalt bit next time and a better drill press. Seriously though Doc a couple of water jetted holes to help us make these even easier to fit. Thanks

[Kin]

Water jetting holes might not be possible. (At least with the water cutters I've seen, not all I assume there's some mega-awesome one that compensates for this:) There's a splotch when the jet starts cutting into metal, and then it cuts clean from that initial point. Maybe they could put the splot in the very middle of the hole and then make the hole, but I'm not sure. Same thing with lasercutters. But a CNC machine with a carbide bit and the right settings could for certain drill the hole. But doing so would take time, another few minutes and so another few dollars. And if you had to start on a CNC drilling machine and then move to a waterjet machine you'd have to make certain the material was perfectly centered.

[teklektik]

More importantly, there's the question of where to put the hole so that it will never collide with a needed hole for a particular frame. Sometimes less is more.

[General Lee]

I did not thrust the "only glue way". So i made my one TA´s especially for my bike. I designed it with a metal plate to screw and glue it to the frame. For this i used the screw hole for the changeable dropout and the screw holes for the brakes. Because i used the screw holes for the brakes i had to push the axle mount position 1,75 cm further back. This way i got place to fit the new holes to mount the brake. Also i got more space between the rear swing and the tire in front. Now i can mount a bigger wheel

Maybe this helps someone as an idea if you don´t thrust 100% to the "only glue way".

Here i got some pics of it.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

[Doctorbass]

I did not thrust the "only glue way". So i made my one TA´s especially for my bike. I designed it with a metal plate to screw and glue it to the frame. For this i used the screw hole for the changeable dropout and the screw holes for the brakes. Because i used the screw holes for the brakes i had to push the axle mount position 1,75 cm further back. This way i got place to fit the new holes to mount the brake. Also i got more space between the rear swing and the tire in front. Now i can mount a bigger wheel

Maybe this helps someone as an idea if you don´t thrust 100% to the "only glue way".

Here i got some pics of it.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

Just a reminder that the T-A i'm offering are not what you call "only glue way".... they can be bolted also or welded.. they are made of a steel that is PERFECT for weld.

but if done correctly, the "only glue way". work like a charm at ANY POWER!

[Bazaki]

For how many years will this dp420 hold ? Can we trust it for 10 years ?

[usa_electrophile]

i'll take two pair

[Doctorbass]

For how many years will this dp420 hold ? Can we trust it for 10 years ?

It's aerospace grade epoxy.. i doubt that the stuff they send in the space would be limited tp 10 years life and some piceces would fly apart in the deep space after that

[Bazaki]

Ok I see

[ejonesss]

Doctorbass in a future version it would be nice to have holes where a mending plate could be attached to connect to the frame

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/7572688.jpg

to be attached like http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/images/pr ... ary/90.jpg

so no glue is required because many of todays bikes are aluminum not steel and could break easier.

[Doctorbass]

Doctorbass in a future version it would be nice to have holes where a mending plate could be attached to connect to the frame

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/7572688.jpg

to be attached like http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/images/pr ... ary/90.jpg

so no glue is required because many of todays bikes are aluminum not steel and could break easier.

Yes i thought about that too but it would fit only few bike model and all usually need a custom hole location... I asked to get many holes in circular arrangement around the plate but the cost of the T-A would increase to 35$ per T-A due to the extended laser cutting path.

I understand what you mean about aluminum, but i have never heard about problem of one of the 350+ T-A set that i sold that could have problem like that. the aluminum is strong enough and if welded to the T-A with epoxy the combo just get stronger. The only problem i had was people that glued them to a painted frame wich is bad sicne the T-A bonding is as strong as the painted surface is bonded to the frame...

But as usuall i'm happy to get suggestions from people here so even if that suggestion come again and again i might upgrade it once again. I already upgraded it 4 time with the request of people here. mostly about the spacing of the dropout for the axel about few 0.01mm add or remove around the 10.0mm.

there is a large variation of axel size for all 10mm based axel hub motor... and i had to adjust few times to satisfy the most people as possible.

Doc

[sardini]

Doctorbass in a future version it would be nice to have holes where a mending plate could be attached to connect to the frame

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/7572688.jpg

to be attached like http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/images/pr ... ary/90.jpg

so no glue is required because many of todays bikes are aluminum not steel and could break easier.

Yes i thought about that too but it would fit only few bike model and all usually need a custom hole location... I asked to get many holes in circular arrangement around the plate but the cost of the T-A would increase to 35$ per T-A due to the extended laser cutting path.

I understand what you mean about aluminum, but i have never heard about problem of one of the 350+ T-A set that i sold that could have problem like that. the aluminum is strong enough and if welded to the T-A with epoxy the combo just get stronger. The only problem i had was people that glued them to a painted frame wich is bad sicne the T-A bonding is as strong as the painted surface is bonded to the frame...

But as usuall i'm happy to get suggestions from people here so even if that suggestion come again and again i might upgrade it once again. I already upgraded it 4 time with the request of people here. mostly about the spacing of the dropout for the axel about few 0.01mm add or remove around the 10.0mm.

there is a large variation of axel size for all 10mm based axel hub motor... and i had to adjust few times to satisfy the most people as possible.

Doc

When to expect the next production ?

[Doctorbass]

Doctorbass in a future version it would be nice to have holes where a mending plate could be attached to connect to the frame

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/7572688.jpg

to be attached like http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/images/pr ... ary/90.jpg

so no glue is required because many of todays bikes are aluminum not steel and could break easier.

Yes i thought about that too but it would fit only few bike model and all usually need a custom hole location... I asked to get many holes in circular arrangement around the plate but the cost of the T-A would increase to 35$ per T-A due to the extended laser cutting path.

I understand what you mean about aluminum, but i have never heard about problem of one of the 350+ T-A set that i sold that could have problem like that. the aluminum is strong enough and if welded to the T-A with epoxy the combo just get stronger. The only problem i had was people that glued them to a painted frame wich is bad sicne the T-A bonding is as strong as the painted surface is bonded to the frame...

But as usuall i'm happy to get suggestions from people here so even if that suggestion come again and again i might upgrade it once again. I already upgraded it 4 time with the request of people here. mostly about the spacing of the dropout for the axel about few 0.01mm add or remove around the 10.0mm.

there is a large variation of axel size for all 10mm based axel hub motor... and i had to adjust few times to satisfy the most people as possible.

Doc

When to expect the next production ?

I have all those on my desk now.. I need to make the hand work on all them ( make the threaded holes for about 5-6 hours of drilling and threading all the 50 kits), than to clean them and prepare for shipping and do management for the 34 actual T-A request

Doc

[sardini]

Doc


I have all those on my desk now.. I need to make the hand work on all them ( make the threaded holes for about 5-6 hours of drilling and threading all the 50 kits), than to clean them and prepare for shipping and do management for the 34 actual T-A request

Doc

Oh!! i will keep my motor to 1000W and wait, i don't want to glue anything else on my bike
txks doc

[darren1678]

doc,

does that mean you have some torque arms for sale? or are you over subscribed?

if you have any for sale i'd appreciate a set darren1678

[Doctorbass]

doc,

does that mean you have some torque arms for sale? or are you over subscribed?

if you have any for sale i'd appreciate a set darren1678

PM me.. that will be easyer to manage all demand

Doc

[mvly]

I used the dp420 three time and it failed three times. Maybe I am not applying it correctly, but now I think I will need to think of a more secure way to mount than the dp420 way.

If you run regular without regen, then the dp420 should be fine if applied properly. I just don't think it is for regen as when you regen, you are putting instance torque which might be several times higher than what the dp420 can handle. If you multiply this many times for every regen event, you can predict the result.

The first time I applied it, I did not regen. It was until I got the regen did it break. Then thinking I got fake dp420, I bought another tube from a reliable source this time. I ran regen for a while and it also cracked.
Third time, I made sure the metals are exposed. Then after a few rides with heavy regen, it cracked.

So this is my experience with dp420. Hopefully other people are getting better result than I am because it is not working for me.

[sardini]

The first time I applied it, I did not regen. It was until I got the regen did it break. Then thinking I got fake dp420, I bought another tube from a reliable source this time. I ran regen for a while and it also cracked.
Third time, I made sure the metals are exposed. Then after a few rides with heavy regen, it cracked.

So this is my experience with dp420. Hopefully other people are getting better result than I am because it is not working for me.

How much? in kw

[mvly]

The first time I applied it, I did not regen. It was until I got the regen did it break. Then thinking I got fake dp420, I bought another tube from a reliable source this time. I ran regen for a while and it also cracked.
Third time, I made sure the metals are exposed. Then after a few rides with heavy regen, it cracked.

So this is my experience with dp420. Hopefully other people are getting better result than I am because it is not working for me.

How much? in kw

Forward power = up to 4KW
Backward power (regen) = up to 1.5KW

[Kin]

Mvly, are you applying it to Aluminum?

It is a more difficult technique to apply to aluminum. You must expose the metal, apply a layer of epoxy, then sand THROUGH that layer again, then apply some more. It is difficult because Al oxidizes so quickly ,and because you want to avoid epoxying the bike axle :p [so you must slightly grease the axle]

[Doctorbass]

DP420 is a fantastic product when used properly. there is a datasheet availlable on internet that explain how to apply it.

There is also an IMPORTANT thing that i have to explain: That epoxy can fill some cavity as well since it's a structural adhesive... but even if you have too much cavity on your stock dropout and try to fill it with epoxy to be able to join the torque arm, it miht not be adequate. there is a max specified layer thickness that you have to respect about epoxy. a too thick layer will fail. and if the epoxy is like covering 50% of surface just as a filler it's not the best.

Personally i never had problem with aluminum oxide but i agree that it's better to take care about that.

I recall: Grease is the enemy of adhesive.. the parts MUST be perfectly cleaned with the proper NOT contamined alchool or grease cleaner.

Doc

[rui_fujino]

I got mine working in one go thanks to video doc made.
I did heat the DP420 with hair dryer for good 10-20 min keeping metals at 60 degrees
I do use regen and so far (1000miles) no problem

[Doctorbass]

NEW BATCH OF 50 sets ready to ship !

I have sent a PM to everyone that requested these and the instructions for payments and adress for shipping.
More than half are already reserved so there is still some availlable.

Cost is 25$ for two strong T-A lastest version
( you get one for the right and one for the left including the threaded hole for the rear derailleur.)





Doc

[Frenzy]

So, I'm waiting for mine

But, I read all the thread and don't find active link to find THE black DP 420 in EU, particuliry in FRANCE. Someone have a seller?

THX

[sardini]

So, I'm waiting for mine

But, I read all the thread and don't find active link to find THE black DP 420 in EU, particuliry in FRANCE. Someone have a seller?

THX

Same problem for Greece ..