Crystalyte 5404 / 5403 UPGRADED! LAST CALL

[Hobbit]

Personally, I'm going to hunt for an 18-19" "light weight" alloy motorcycle rim to lace this bad boy into.

So you're looking for, like what, one inch spokes!! MUHAHAHAHA. Can't wait to see some of these monsters rolling.

[Hyena]

haha nah nothing that mad - motorcycle rims are larger than bicycle rims inch for inch.
I think 17" motorbike tyres fit on a 20" pushy (bmx) rim so 19" is closer to 24" in mtb wheels, and has the benefit of a wide range of fat tyres. Obviously these huge tyres won't fit standard frames but luckily I know a gangster looking to make up custom frames

[neptronix]

actually it is 16" motorcycle/moped tires that fit 20" rims.



Such as the 2.75" x 16" pirelli m75.. fits perfect on the 20" magic pie. So do bmx tires.

[Hyena]

Ah thanks for clearing that up, I couldnt remember if it was 16 or 17.
How wide is the pie rim ? I have a cast scooter rim here (18" I think) and the rim is quite wide, though the casting weighs a tonne with thick rim and solid "spokes"

[Philistine]

Just applied the ebike tester to my 5404 and confirmed the problem is a blown hall. My worst nightmare. I would rather have dentistry performed through my anus than repair halls.

[Hyena]

Bummer mate,
Have you opened it up and tested the halls directly or just tested at the leads ? I guess you know how to test them properly and that you're getting some voltage back but not varying as expected (ie not just a broken wire) I haven't heard of any other hall failures just yet, not that it's any consolation but fingers crossed it's an isolated case.
These halls are supposedly the good ones too. I know I've given the wheel in my fighter (which presumably come from the same production run) a right pounding and yet yours which is brand new and ridden on the street fails almost out of the box - I don't know why

[Tincan]

I measured the phase wires with my cheap calipers and htey came out at 3.3mm
As methods says this is fine and the few inches of phase wires at this gauge exiting the motor won't be a limitation. You'll smoke the windings before the phase wires short. But yes by all means extend them a few inches outside. 8ga if you want overkill - 10ga would be sufficient. They were supposedly specced with 11ga and comparing with some 12ga teflon wire I have here it looks pretty damn close to that - so this is probably the least of things to worry about at this stage (wire cutting and halls shitting themselves on the first outing is a larger concern)

Our fearless test-rider Matthew needs a motor that can take 24S 100A punishment this summer.

Your brother down under can save Matthew the trouble

For those talking about lacing, voicecoils @ glowworm bicycles here in Sydney is currently trying to source spokes to suit lacing into other rims. He's gearing up to do 2 of these beasts but there's a question of which spokes to use. If you want to use tough downhill type rims they're all eyeletted which limits you to 13/14ga spokes which will no doubt struggle with the weight of this obese lump of spinning magnetism

Personally, I'm going to hunt for an 18-19" "light weight" alloy motorcycle rim to lace this bad boy into. I'm tempted to try oil cooling which seems to be gaining popularity but I don't think I'll make the maiden voyage on such a rare and expensive motor. Air cooling should suffice for now and I can always have new covers made up if I decide to go down the oil route. Coz that's how I roll

The wheel that i was going to send down to you is a Mavic which, as you mentioned is eyletted

The HT3525 that i currently have in it is using rather small spokes and to be honest, I'm not really comfortable with the small spokes

I guess now i face the million dollar question is... What rim will take the punishment, be 26 inch AND use the right spokes...

[deepfraught]

"isolated case" - he will need to be with straight jacket and padded cell. Sorry to hear Philistine, I just saw your Greyborg and couldn't believe I've spent so many hours on ES and not seen these builds (thought it was just a motor due to the group buy). If you have a good run at the casino drowning your sorrows, my 5404 is still with Hyena and willing to adopt it out for cost.

[Hyena]

I guess now i face the million dollar question is... What rim will take the punishment, be 26 inch AND use the right spokes...

I reckon an Alex DM24 is your best bet - they're pretty tough and don't use eyelettes so will take 12ga spokes - possibly even larger (though I havent tried and probably wouldn't recommend it)
I may have another solution for you yet though - see your PM

[Tincan]

I guess now i face the million dollar question is... What rim will take the punishment, be 26 inch AND use the right spokes...

I reckon an Alex DM24 is your best bet - they're pretty tough and don't use eyelettes so will take 12ga spokes - possibly even larger (though I havent tried and probably wouldn't recommend it)
I may have another solution for you yet though - see your PM

[Andje]

Check my aline thread for a spinup video of my 5403 at 100v.

[neptronix]

Just about 1.75 inches.

Ah thanks for clearing that up, I couldnt remember if it was 16 or 17.
How wide is the pie rim ? I have a cast scooter rim here (18" I think) and the rim is quite wide, though the casting weighs a tonne with thick rim and solid "spokes"

[Philistine]

Bummer mate,
Have you opened it up and tested the halls directly or just tested at the leads ? I guess you know how to test them properly and that you're getting some voltage back but not varying as expected (ie not just a broken wire) I haven't heard of any other hall failures just yet, not that it's any consolation but fingers crossed it's an isolated case.
These halls are supposedly the good ones too. I know I've given the wheel in my fighter (which presumably come from the same production run) a right pounding and yet yours which is brand new and ridden on the street fails almost out of the box - I don't know why

After I posted that last post I had a good look at the wiring and it is damaged at the axle (from being compressed by they little plastic thingy), so I am hoping as you say that it is just a wire continuity problem not the hall itself, so I still have my fingers crossed in that regards. I won't start huffing poppers in anticipation of dentanaltry just yet...

[methods]

I won't start huffing poppers in anticipation of dentanaltry just yet...

Poppers or crackers?
I saw this thing they call a Popper at the adult book store the other day (settle down... I was there with my pregnant wife!) They are unfamiliar to me - perhaps I should buy a case of these magical devices and perform a scientific experiment.

Dude - I bet you $20 that it is just a nipped wire. Like getting the tip of your pecker caught in the zipper... hurts like hell but always an easy fix.

If you guys would start posting a few more close up pictures the smarty-lurks could help you more

-methods

[Philistine]

Poppers are muscle relaxants..... I was joking about the anal dentristy that I might have been favouring. Almost certain it is the wire though, as I can see wheret he insulation is stripped and the wire cut very slightly. I am hoping when I repair that wiring it will all be good.

What is the guage of teflon wire for the hall wires?

[Hobbit]

Ooh, that's gonna be a big relief, Phil, for you and the rest of the owners if it's just a pinched wire , eh, I'd hate to add halls to the list of fixes required...

[Hyena]

I saw this thing they call a Popper at the adult book store the other day (settle down... I was there with my pregnant wife!)

So you've got one of those frisky pregnant wives ? I always luck out, my was the opposite when pregnant both times

Phil, I'd try gently tugging (lol) at the wires exiting the motor and see if you can pull a bit more through. There's often a little bit of slack and if you can expose the broken/stripped part you can solder it and get some heatshrink over it

[Rustedhen]

Story of a noob.

When I first took the stinky out for a run I was a little dissapointed with the top speed on the CA only showing 35km/h

Figured first it musta been a speed switch problem so put a jumper across a couple of the pins on the yellow plug. Awesome now doing 40km/h

Maybe its the resistors I put on the magura throttle wires. Head down to the store and pick up some adjustable pots instead. Fine tuned to get exactly the same resistances and top speed

Hmm maybe its a CA setting. Checked out the advanced options (because the volts and amps seemed to be pretty much spot on) and found the pole count to be way off. Set them back to 12 poles and guess what. Looks like I've been going 60~70km/h the whole time

No wonder my brakes are fried

[SkyCaptain]

Hmmm.

Managed to get my installed on one bike.
To get the rim centered in the frame, I had to spread the rear drop out width to aprrox 155mm wide, and use spacers to fill in the gap. Also, it was way off to one side, because of the 7mm thick "C" washer I made and used where the wires exit the hub to protect them.

Anyway, felt good to get it into the bike.
How are you guys going with alloy frames? does it fit and line up?
How are you protecting the wires where it exits the hub so they dont get squashed?

Anyway, had my first ride on it just before,it was a night ride. Approx 5km on road.
Ran it on just a low power setup, 48v approx 40amp max.
It ran exactly like I was expecting.
Top speed was down a bit compared to when I was using the golden motor hub that I pulled out of the bike to put this 5404 in.
And the handling did feel a little strange, going from a light motor to a heavy one.

Anyway, it did pull slightly firmer than the golden motor 1000w and also i think slightly firmer than my now not running 5304, but was a few k's down in top speed on 48v compared to my other motors.

However, it did as I say, on a low amp and volt setting pull firmer than all my other motors.
So this is a good sign.
It did not get hot or even warm,(but was cold night)
So, I expect when I crank up the volts and amps it should pull much better and cope with it pretty well.

Now unfortunately, it looks like I have blown out the bearings or the axel is loose or somehting.
When you hold the tire and woble it, it kind of clunks, and moves heaps side to side. I assume that would be just the bearings?
But I did notice a little woble/clunk when I put the tire onto it, like the axle moved slightly in and out.

Has anybody body else in Melbourne got one of these motors who is confident and has the time to help me replace the bearings and look into what else it might be?

I tried replacing halls in my 5304 around 4 months ago, and I really messed it up as it is still not running and nobody knows why, so I dont even want to touch or open this motor.
I would be happy to pay for the help to change the bearings.

[Handyhappy1]

Sounds like serious qc problems. Bearing gone after 5km. Hope I do not have the same problem as I am just putting my wheel together. Should be up and running as soon as I install my temperature probe in my 5404 and lace it to my new rim.

[Philistine]

Now unfortunately, it looks like I have blown out the bearings or the axel is loose or somehting.
When you hold the tire and woble it, it kind of clunks, and moves heaps side to side. I assume that would be just the bearings?
But I did notice a little woble/clunk when I put the tire onto it, like the axle moved slightly in and out.

Has anybody body else in Melbourne got one of these motors who is confident and has the time to help me replace the bearings and look into what else it might be?

I tried replacing halls in my 5304 around 4 months ago, and I really messed it up as it is still not running and nobody knows why, so I dont even want to touch or open this motor.
I would be happy to pay for the help to change the bearings.

Changing bearings is really easy, just pop your covers off, then pull out the bearings (eg with a screw-driver, they just sit inside the covers), and replace. Really easy.

I hear you on the halls though. I have tried three or four times (unsuccessfully) to replace the halls on my 5303, and it isn't that I don't know what I am doing as I have successfully replaced halls on a 9C before. I just confirmed last night that it is my hall sensor blown on my 5404 as well, so now I have two Crystallite hubs needing hall repair.

Does anyone know what is the guage of teflon wire for the halls on these motors, and where in Aus is it best to get the wire? Powerwerx?

[SkyCaptain]

Yep went out and had another look and feel this morning of the 5404.
Yep, after only a short test ride approx 5kms, I have some severe woble/knock sideways movement of the hub.
I hope it is just bearings and not an axle issue.

Thanks Phil for the advice on changing the bearings.
On my 5304 I have had the cover off on the side I need it to be off to replace the halls.
But I have never had the cover off on the side where the wires exit.
On my 5304 the plastic/nylon thing looks like it is glued in, and even if I pull the wires down in line with the axle, it just looks like when I slide the cover off it is going to jam and ruin the wires as there is not enough space.

[SkyCaptain]

Yeah so funny.
Mine had a little "QC passed" sticker hanging on the axle.
Hmm who in the lords name checked these motors for quality, lol

I really look forward to the future where you guys find a good manufacturer who listens to you guys on how make these types of hub motors.

[megacycle]

Should be up and running as soon as I install my temperature probe in my 5404 and lace it to my new rim.

Have say this properly, where are you placing that probe, on outer of windings .
Want to temp sense too. You using a bead or a bbq sensor mod.

[Philistine]

THe plastic thing is not glued in, you can slide it out with a screw driver. Just get a nice thin screwdriver in between the plastic plug and the cover, and pry it up, it will just slide up (it isn't glued in, just in there with friction), I have already removed mine on my 5404. Do you have a three jaw puller? The way I remove the stator to access the halls, is to remove the cover on the wire side, then (with brake disc and freewheel removed), push the motor with a three jaw puller (it is actually using it in a pushing way, as the centre pin is pushing the hub by the axle out), and push it out the wire side (ie so the stator comes out the wire side). It is really, really easy with a three jaw puller. The hard part for me is that no matter how carefull I am with replacing the hall sensors, I never seem to get enough clearance, or mysteriously they just don't work when I have put the whole thing back together. As I said, I have done it successfully with a 9C. The bit I find so hard with a X5 is the way the wires come in under the windings they are so finicky.

In my opinion this isn't bad QC per se, this is just chinese hubmotors, I have had all these problems with any hubmotor I have ever owned. The only way you will ever get a hubmotor without these kinds of issues is to make it somewhere other than china, then you can just quadruple the price.