Crystalyte 5404 / 5403 UPGRADED! LAST CALL

[Hyena]

Good call evoforce, I was just about to do the same.
Hopefully everyone has their motors now (and if not PM me if you haven't organised delivery) so we should stop posting here and start talking about it in the other thread where we can keep track of useful info.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39231

edit: just noticed my post clicked this thread over to 50 pages - that's a nice round number to end this epic saga with

[Handyhappy1]

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I am hitting 100 km/h easily on 8-10000 watts, and did a bunch of medium speed offroad today and it was great

.
I am wondering for how long you ran at 100km/h and if the motor got extremely hot at that speed. Have you run continuous for say 10 mins. and then checked how hot the motor was? I am trying to establish a benchmark for the abilities of this motor. I have the 5404 and I do not expect it to go as fast as a 5403 but I can run those power numbers with ease. Please let me know how the motor is at displacing heat and does it cool down quickly. I have installed a temp probe in mine and I will be trying it out tomorrow.

[oatnet]

I have started a new thread in the ebike general discussion titled 5404/5403 The good The bad The ugly. I am hoping we will all put our info there to help, inspire, brag, discuss fixes to problems etc. Also showing your project would be nice. Plus If we can discuss what equipment to go with these would be helpful.

You may have missed this, but this discussion thread for the motors has been around since April 1st, don't miss out on that content:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=38300

[Andje]

i didnt put my temp probe in yet. The motor got hot, but I was thrashing it on and offroad for about 30 minutes to get it hot. In my experience running wot is not as innefficient as simply accelerating from a stop over and over again. So that's the kind of riding that I would say will test the motor, just like any motor. I did find that since it is such a huge heatsink it takes a long time for the covers to heat up, then when you get it home and let it sit it takes like 3 hours for a max temp non ventilated motor to cool to room temp.

[Handyhappy1]

Ok thank you. I do not intend to ventilate the motor as I am going to be using it in rain and dirt. I imagine the motor would not last long in that environment with big ventilation holes on the side cover plates.

[wojtek]

Ok thank you. I do not intend to ventilate the motor as I am going to be using it in rain and dirt. I imagine the motor would not last long in that environment with big ventilation holes on the side cover plates.

apparently experience show that they are doing well with side cover holes + the Justin experiment shows that you cannot waterproof a hub motor, just not possible.

the only worry i have is winter and plenty of salt on the roads. Salt sucks.. Having holes will definitely let more salt in..

[Andje]

Air holes do not let in dirt and water, they only let out heat. If you are worried about rocks or dirt and you want to ignore the hundreds of e-s members with huge holes in their covers and 0 reports of failure due to it, that's up to you , but you could glue some window screen over the insides of the holes to avoid that problem. The water just gets OUT easier with the holes. And personally, I didn't find my bike usable in winter conditions; rear drive tends to push you straight on those slippery corners, so salt was never an issue for me.
I do know I have 4 other hubs with holes, and that the only reason my x54 isn't swiss cheese yet is I want to get the holes done on a mill to look pretty this time. I might also pursue water cooling, but I haven't decided yet.

[methods]

I have run up to 2" holes - never an issue.
Certainly not with water.

I can see the concern of a pebble being jammed between the windings and cover (only real failure mode) - but I have never seen it happen. I understand that it is not a logical argument - but I have put hundreds and hundreds of miles on my bikes in the dirt with no issues.

Water = zero concern
Mud = extremely little concern
pebbles = not something I worry about at all

There is a secondary helper here... when the hub is opened up you can *smell* it burning long before anything else. It is a very distinct smell, you will know it when there is a problem... along with the plumes of smoke Hubs dont usually die at 40mph - they usually die while going very slowly just doing something stupid. (high load, low eff.)

-methods

[Andje]

It is a very distinct smell, you will know it when there is a problem

OOOH BOY do i know that smell. Methods is right; it is very distinctive, and I have smelt it before I realised something was amiss electrically, even rolling at 70km/h it you smell it wafting up; it is definitely the first sign you are about to push a bike through what feels like pudding all the way home.

[Nanoha]

I think it smells rather like roses...

[Tincan]

You twisted man.

[amberwolf]

If more salt gets in the motor...just wash it out at the end of the ride. To prevent any damage to the motro from the salt, paint it inside first with that red insulation paint a few people have already used.

So far the only hub I recall reading about here on ES that actually got windings destroyed was one by I think El_Steak that was a motor with internal fins glued on--a fin came off and got stuck in the winding/cover/fins and shredded stuff. Bad Hair Day.

It wouldn't have mattered if his was vented or not.


My 9C has been using the huge-holed covers from the 9C/GM I got from Icecube57 a while back, and even with all the dirt and dust here in Phoenix, and all the metallic road debris, rocks, etc., that abound on our always-under-destruction streets, I've yet to get anything in there. Even dust has been minimal--I get more dust in my house, layered on everything, from one night with the doors and windows open than that motor has gotten in it the whole long time (half a year? more? I forget) the motor's had those covers on it.


Not much dust to see there, right after taking the cover off to swap it to one modified for rear-wheel use:

DSC06189.JPG (77.59 KiB) Viewed 421 times

DSC06192.JPG (69.42 KiB) Viewed 421 times

[Handyhappy1]

Ok holes work to my advantage I get it next problem... I tried to install my rim and it appears that I have no spacer supplied to me that keeps the chain sprocket( mine is 3 speed) away from the rear dropouts. Could someone please take a picture of it so I can machine a piece on the lathe or perhaps washers installed on the axle will work as a spacer.

[megacycle]

If more salt gets in the motor...just wash it out at the end of the ride. To prevent any damage to the motro from the salt, paint it inside first with that red insulation paint a few people have already used.

So far the only hub I recall reading about here on ES that actually got windings destroyed was one by I think El_Steak that was a motor with internal fins glued on--a fin came off and got stuck in the winding/cover/fins and shredded stuff. Bad Hair Day.

It wouldn't have mattered if his was vented or not.


My 9C has been using the huge-holed covers from the 9C/GM I got from Icecube57 a while back, and even with all the dirt and dust here in Phoenix, and all the metallic road debris, rocks, etc., that abound on our always-under-destruction streets, I've yet to get anything in there. Even dust has been minimal--I get more dust in my house, layered on everything, from one night with the doors and windows open than that motor has gotten in it the whole long time (half a year? more? I forget) the motor's had those covers on it.


Not much dust to see there, right after taking the cover off to swap it to one modified for rear-wheel use:

The attachment DSC06189.JPG is no longer available

Looking at the photo and from what you have said, excuse my newbnessness, but has anyone modified or made say, 3 spoke cover,s like mags and maximise exposed area and protect the windings somehow.

imagesCAJUSQM6.jpg (8.69 KiB) Viewed 354 times

Besides it looking mega IMO

[methods]

I dont know about this batch of motors but the HS and HT motors require a space between the freewheel and hub.
You can find them dirt cheap on amazon in bags of 10
Any reputable bike shop should have them for sale for a buck or two.

Here are the units I buy:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GSON7Q/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I was supplying them with the HS hubs - looks like I need to buy another batch. Price has gone up on those bastards...

If you do manage to jam your freewheel on you will need a modified freewheel removal tool that fits over a 14mm axle.
Lots of people sell them - here is one for sale on ebikes.ca (scroll down to FWTool: http://ebikes.ca/store/store_motors.php

-methods

Ok holes work to my advantage I get it next problem... I tried to install my rim and it appears that I have no spacer supplied to me that keeps the chain sprocket( mine is 3 speed) away from the rear dropouts. Could someone please take a picture of it so I can machine a piece on the lathe or perhaps washers installed on the axle will work as a spacer.

\\

EDIT: IF you just screw on your freewheel (but dont JAM it) you can back it off by using a pair of big needle nose pliers. Always use liberal grease before installing a freewheel if you intend to get it off one day... all that leverage can really bind the steel into the aluminum. I grease the crap out of the threads before I install now.

[ZOMGVTEK]

My hub came with a freewheel spacer. I didn't use it, as I saw no need for it. No chain on it yet, but it has perfectly acceptable, but minimal gap between the side cover and spins freely.

[methods]

My hub came with a freewheel spacer. I didn't use it, as I saw no need for it.

Either Kenny bumped the landing out by a mm (I doubt it) or your freewheel just does not sit in as deep as the 11T-30T that most people use.

Looks clean... that is going to be a bad ass ride.

-methods

[ohzee]

Homer Simpson built a robot!

I just put my motor back together with a replaced hall and it works! Now I just need to get my 24 Fet controller repaired so I can properly punish this motor for my sins. I also fabbed up some aluminium spacers to make sure this doesn't happen again (much like VoiceCoils idea with the C washers).

Soon as I get my 24 Fet going again I can get the mascara running on this motor. Woo Hoo!

Hey Philistine hope you don't mind me bother you with this. Putting my 5404 in my yuba when testing caused
one of my hall wires to get nicked and short out the hall maybe two need to put the tester on it again.

Took my motor apart tonight again (first time I realized the halls looked like a pita so just used my 12fet sensorless) and
I don't understand how you even get to the halls. It looks like they are shoved up under the windings.

Do I need to remove all the wire insulation and somehow pry them out without moving the copper fill ?

Glad you went before me. I really want to do it this weekend my 18fet is just dying to get used.

Any help you give me is very much appreciated.

[Philistine]

I didn't see this thread but had a PM with Ohzee about it, figured I would post up my babbling response in case it is of help to others:

Hi mate,

Yes the crystallites can be a pain to do the halls on. But having said that the 54 is much easier than the 53 (because the windings are packed down less tightly). I have a 5303 that I am still waiting to get time to go back to and undid the miss I did on it, but the 5404 wasn't too bad. My suggestion is that how you do it is to get the new Halls, and then finely solder three coloured wires on, and isolate each leg wire if that makes sense (I think I did it with really fine heatshrink, but I might have done it with a tiny piece of electrical tape on each leg. then cut the wires to the existing halls on the inside area of the stator - after they come out the axle slot (do each in turn so you make sure you replace the right hall if that makes sense), then pull out the wires and remove the hall. Then take your new hall and glue it into the slot, then feed the wires through the little tunnell they came out of on the old hall, then solder the wires that you have fed through onto the wires that are then on the other side (where you cut them). Do each in turn that way. Obviously make sure each hall has the right colour wire for the right leg of each hall at the begining.

I did it that way because the soldering onto the legs is such a pain (because I am so crap at soldering), that I found it easier to get that right first, then solder the wires after feeding them back through the tunnell in the windings. You have to be careful that the way you have soldered the hall to the wires (and insulated) has a very low profile, and that you glue it deep enough into the new slot (I used a fine dremel carbid bit to make sure I had cleaned out the slot properly for the new hall). I say that because their is little clearance from the motor, so you have to have very little (almost none) profile from the ring.

Does that all make sense? It is a pain, but I had to replace all the halls on my 5404, and because the tunnell through the windings is so big, it only took me an hour. But on my 5303 I screwed it up big time.

Halls are such a pain I find. My mate ended up going sensorless because he got so sick of replacing halls on his 9cs - I would have too but he runs lower power (12S) and at higher voltages they suck balls.

Only other tip I have, is that I found the bearing stuck on my axle which has never happened when removing a side cover before, I got it off in the end though, but had never had that happen before.

Do you use the gear puller method to remove stators? That is what I find is easiest.

Best of luck with it mate. Let me know if I need to make any of that clearer. Cheers Phil.

[ohzee]

Thanks for the help Philistine it was handy. Replaced the halls even snapped some pics to show how they go behind the windings.
Getting out the hard glue w/o damaging the windings was the hardest part.

Was wondering if it's ok to use a glue gun to hold wires in place in these motors. My concern was if the motor gets to warm and the
glue gets into the windings/magnets.

I am dealing with the bearings staying like you stated. Was wondering if I could just put the side cover back on without removing them.
May try that , but I have a small gear puller I can use if needed as well. What a pita though. Getting this to fit into my yuba was
the main issue and it just barely nicked then ruined the halls

[Hyena]

Guys this sales thread is dead and buried (atleast it was)
Any info regarding the 5400s should be posted in the other thread where the information is relevant and can be found in the future for anyone who may be looking for it.

www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic ... 1&p=620412

[ohzee]

Well I searched on the issue I was having and found an identical post and posted in that thread.

If we should not post here then maybe the thread should be closed ?

Just so much data on this site it's not always easy or fast to find the best place to ask your questions.

[Hyena]

Just so much data on this site it's not always easy or fast to find the best place to ask your questions.

True, which is why we don't want this sort of info in a sale.
I'll PM a mod to close this one.

[bigmoose]

Thread locked by request so technical discussions will be in the right area.