HS35 & HT35 kits w/Sensors, w/Warranty, w/MethTek s

[methods]

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HS35 & HT35 kits with Sensors, with Warranty, with MethTek support
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I have in stock, ready to ship the following Hx35 motors. These motors have hall sensors (so they can work with **any** controller) and I personally guarantee against any type of manufacturing defects like cut wires or dead halls for 1 year.

HS3540 laced into a 26” rim

HT3525 laced into a 26” rim

HS3540 laced into a 20” rim

(All hubs are Rear mount compatible with disk brakes. These are the true 35mm stators with deeper cut grooves in the axles for wire clearance. Each has been inspected and modified by me personally.)

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I am offering these custom produced hub motors in combination with one of 3 highly upgradeable “wide range” controllers that have been produced to my specification to be fully compatible with all offerings from Justin at ebikes.ca
These controllers have an awesome super wide input voltage range of 36V – 72V with no need to make any resistor modifications – just plug and play. They use genuine IRFB4110 mosfets that we personally procured and provided to the manufacturer. The capacitors are rated to 100V and there is enough capacitance to keep the rail stable driving any hub.

25A upgradeable 6 fet controller, 36V-72V input range, regenerative braking, CA connection, power button, Fwd/Rev control

40A upgradeable 12 fet controller, 36V-72V input range, regenerative braking, CA connection, power button, Fwd/Rev control

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If you think you might want to start simple and modify for more performance later this is where I think you should start. The mods to get higher power out of these controllers are straight forward and I can help you with that when you are ready.

Something to think about is the “standard” you settle on. You may not think so now but it is highly likely that you will end up with more than one bike and plug-n-play compatibility can be the difference between quick gear swaps and obnoxious incompatibility headaches. I recommend following the connector standard that Justin has set at ebikes.ca

As an additional option I have 72V 40A Crystalyte sensorless controllers available. If you are looking to put away a “backup” controller this is the one

Crystalyte 72V – 40A Sensorless controller. CA plug, throttle, PAS, E-brake, direction. FB4310 fets. Modifiable.

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These kits will be supplied with the latest Large Screen Direct Plug-in CA
I calibrate each CA to the exact controller and motor you are getting so it is ready to go right out of the box. I can also help you tune the settings of your CA for your specific setup. If you buy your CA from me I will always be available to help you if you get stuck.

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I have both Thumb throttles and “half twist” throttles. I recommend the “half twist” throttle for 99% of riders. The nice thing about this throttle is that it allows you to rest some weight on the outer edge of the bars which relieves wrist fatigue on long rides. If you have not experienced this you will…. (or your wife will).

1 /2 twist Throttle

Thumb Throttle

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There are two more things that must be in an ebike kit that it seems 99% of retailers don’t include: A torque arm and free wheel. A high quality torque arm is an ABSOLUTE MUST. You cannot *reliably* install a high power hub motor without at least 1 torque arm. This is coming from a man who actually had his front hub detach while going 35mph launching me over the bars into the middle of an intersection. The same man (me) who spun out the rear axle on my aluminum frame and ruined the drops on my Kona Stinky Downhill.

Torque arms come in two flavors: “beefy” and “clean”. Both were designed and manufactured by Justin. These are not imitation/copies – these are very high quality stainless steel.

Universal Torque arm with double hose clamp

“clean” Torque arm for mounting with fender holes

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When selecting a freewheel the most important thing to realize is that you will be going much faster than you would on a normal bike… so an 11T cog is an absolute must. I have 7spd and 8spd freewheels available

7spd 11-32

8spd 11-32

Water cut inside waster (not typically needed for HS series motors but valuable to have)

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My pricing for all parts and kits is identical to the pricing at ebikes.ca. I have everything listed above (and more) in stock, checked out, and ready to ship within 24 hours to anywhere in the world. I am offering FREE SHIPPING to the lower 48 states of the US. For international orders I will charge you the actual shipping cost minus what it would cost to ship domestically.
I ship UPS Ground which is much faster than USPS Parcel Post! You will typically receive your hub within 3-5 days possibly sooner.

Have a look on this webpage to learn more about the differences between the kit options and pricing.

http://ebikes.ca/store/store_nc.php

Let me be very clear on this point: If you are in Canada you should order directly from ebikes.ca. If however you live in the US I can offer very competitive shipping rates (FREE, DUH!) and my personal customer service / support / guarantee on anything you buy from me.

In closing, a few notes:


Warranty
Warranty on HS motors is good for 1 year on any type of manufacturer defect…. Most specifically cut phase or hall wires and blown halls. I will not warranty a motor that has been over-heated/abused…. and believe me I can tell. If you are a “regular guy” with no intention to do anything crazy like increase current limits or over-volt then you have nothing to worry about. The most important thing to know: IF AT ANY TIME YOUR HUB STARTS GETTING LOUD OR LOSING POWER – STOP STOP STOP! This can be an indication of a shorted phase wire, which is actually very easy to fix…. BUT…. If you don’t stop right away permanent overheating damage can occur.
If you ever have a doubt do the following: Pick up the rear end of the bike and apply full throttle. Watch the current on the CA. If it reads anything greater than 2-3 amps then something is very wrong. Don’t ride it – contact me immediately and I will take care of you.

So we are clear - the purpose of this warranty is to alleviate concerns about recent quality control issues that Crystalyte has had regarding "cut wire" issues with their motors. This is not a guarantee that you wont smoke your motor, that your spokes wont get loose from over-powering, or that your controller wont pop if you push it too hard. Everything I am selling here is already into the "over volted" range and these are *performance race parts*. If you want an iron clad warranty then you will have to stick with 36V - 48V gear and I suggest you purchase that from ebikes.ca directly. Reliability is important - so please understand that any time you get above 48V the scales are tipping towards performance over reliability. Burst acceleration, high speeds, extreme ebike grin.

Batteries
This is a personal choice, but at the moment what I would recommend would be an 18S 10Ah Lipo pack from Hobby city. To protect that investment I recommend the HVC/LVC/Parallel boards that I am about to release. You will also need a method to balance and charge… which is not so simple. If you don’t know where to start I would steer you toward Cell_Man with his awesome pre-built A123 packs with integrated BMS. More on this later.

Other Stuff
I also have other goodies for sale that are not offered at ebikes.ca
6x10 Rear 9C laced into a 26” rim
6x10 Front 9C laced into a 26” rim
5x12 Front 9C laced into a 20” rim
3-Speed switches (pigtail must be added to controllers to use these)
HVC/LVC/Parallel boards (in production, not ready for sale)

-methods

[methods]

Please PM with any specific questions on kits, pricing, international shipping, etc. I will then post anything relevant to the community in this thread.
I will respond to all PM’s in the evenings
Payment via PayPal, personal check, or bank transfer is fine.
I am starting some other sales threads for my 9C low KV motor kits, HVC/LVC/Parallel boards, etc. I will update that information here as time permits.

-methods

[nicobie]

I've bought a couple of motors from -methods so far and have been more than happy with his service.

One of the motors, a ht3025 had a problem from the git go. I think it wasn't wound too good as 2 of the phase windings shorted to the stator. I could see it on a small part of the windings. I didn't get upset about it as I knew when ordering that these were most likely 'beta testers' motors. I honestly didn't expect anything in the way of a warranty but -methods took it on the chin and sent me a replacement motor out of his newest batch (thank you Patrick).

I think that these new motors have gotten some much needed improvements like the bigger wire groove and better bearings. The rims on these look to be nice and wide too. It's also good to know that -methods will stand behind these motors if any problems pop up.

Like -methods said, If you don't over watt them they will last and last. It's a shame that so many people had trouble with the first few batches. The wire cutting problem was an easy fix, but if the customer didn't know about it, he couldn't fix it. I kind of think -methods got screwed by Kenny when he sent those 30mm stators instead of the 35mm as promised.

BTW just in case anybody is wondering, a ht3525 in a 24" rim with a fat tire and running 22s (93v hot) will go 40 mph. It get's there quick too .

[GCinDC]

the rims and spokes look pretty stout. any specs on them?

[methods]

the rims and spokes look pretty stout. any specs on them?

Yes, Justin has made a nice chart on the direct drive kit page with all the comparisons. Look here:

http://ebikes.ca/store/store_nc.php

The rim is 29mm wide and the spokes are 12G

Now... Just so that we are clear... I much prefer a 14G or 13G name-brand spoke over a Chinese 12G spoke. The reason is that it is very hard to stretch a 12G Chinese spoke - the nipples strip pretty easy - so what ends up happening is 12G spokes become loose much easier that 14G SS spokes. With a 14G spoke you can tighten the crap out of it, stretch it, and it will stay tight.

With the first 20" HS3540 I tested all of the 12G spokes became loose after only a few miles. For that reason I have to go around and tighten each spoke about 1/3 - 2/3 of a turn while I am doing the checkout. I have the spokes about as tight as you can reasonably get them without stripping.

-methods

[deVries]

The rim is 29mm wide and the spokes are 12G

Now... Just so that we are clear... I much prefer a 14G or 13G name-brand spoke over a Chinese 12G spoke. The reason is that it is very hard to stretch a 12G Chinese spoke - the nipples strip pretty easy - so what ends up happening is 12G spokes become loose much easier that 14G SS spokes. With a 14G spoke you can tighten the crap out of it, stretch it, and it will stay tight.

With the first 20" HS3540 I tested all of the 12G spokes became loose after only a few miles. For that reason I have to go around and tighten each spoke about 1/3 - 2/3 of a turn while I am doing the checkout. I have the spokes about as tight as you can reasonably get them without stripping.

1) Is this a double walled rim similar to a Sun Rhino but 29mm wide? Can this rim/wheel be rebuilt using 14g SS spokes using brass nipples, or will it be best to use a different rim instead?

2) Do you have bare motors available for how much discounted w/o laced-rim?

3) Which motor-wind is best for 48v nominal (amps?) on 26" wheel for serious 1/4 to 3/4 mile hills w/100-120+ degree hot temps off pavement & 30mph on flats -or- is that even possible? If not, what motor/volts wheel size & mods would make it possible?

Thanks

[methods]

1) Is this a double walled rim similar to a Sun Rhino but 29mm wide? Can this rim/wheel be rebuilt using 14g SS spokes using brass nipples, or will it be best to use a different rim instead?

These rims are junk compared to a quality welded Sun Rhino. If you have the money and desire the Sun would be a much better choice. I am afraid the holes in these hubs are too large run 14G spokes.... I dont know why but Kenny drilled these hubs too big for even 12G spokes To use a smaller high quality spoke you would need to use small washers.

2) Do you have bare motors available for how much discounted w/o laced-rim?

I do not have bare motors and the discount would not be that much if I did.

3) Which motor-wind is best for 48v nominal (amps?) on 26" wheel for serious 1/4 to 3/4 mile hills w/100-120+ degree hot temps off pavement & 30mph on flats -or- is that even possible? If not, what motor/volts wheel size & mods would make it possible?

Thanks

Without question the Hs3540 would be the correct motor. It would do about 30 on the flats with a 48V pack and your hill climbing ability would be driven by your current limit. There are of course a lot of variables... how steep the hills are, how much rolling resistance you have, how much the bike and rider weigh, how you ride up the hills, etc. These motors are much more powerful than the 9C but they are still light weight so good riding technique is required to not overheat if you want to get crazy.

I just took a 17 mile ride with an HS3525 in a 26" rim. I am running 66V Lipo with a 100A current limit. I have way more power than I need (I keep my 3-speed switch set on 25% for most rides) and on the last few miles of the trip I was still able to hit 45 mph on the flat. If someone wants to run higher voltage - like 24S lipo I would then start to suggest the HT3540 with proper cooling.

The HS3540 in a 20" wheel with 66V (recumbent trike) was totally awesome. I am thinking about trying it with 24S lipo.

-methods

[fractal]

HVC/LVC/Parallel boards!!!! Nice!!! those will be perfect for my winter project : Norco DH, 24s3p, custom fiberglass housing, xlyte HT... YES! Just what I need I Will closely follow this thread!!!

[methods]

HVC/LVC/Parallel boards!!!! Nice!!! those will be perfect for my winter project : Norco DH, 24s3p, custom fiberglass housing, xlyte HT... YES! Just what I need I Will closely follow this thread!!!

Parts should be here Monday or Tuesday. I am going to do a little testing to make sure the circuit behaves as expected and then I will send the design out for fabrication. Each board is 1S-6S, 8P and has isolated LVC and HVC lines that can daisy chain out to any size pack. Plug and play with the JST-XH connectors on Hobby City packs.

EDIT: Wow - looks like my server went down.... all the pictures are dead

-methods

[gensem]

Hey Methods,

Woulda 12s lipo with 65amp phase be reasonable with the HS3540?

[methods]

Hey Methods,

Woulda 12s lipo with 65amp phase be reasonable with the HS3540?

Well... lets simulate it and see.

* Go to ebikes.ca/simulator
* Click the "Enter Custom Settings" link
* For the motor select "Clyte HS3540"
* For the pack Voltage enter 44V
* For the wheel size leave 26"
* For the Controller Amp limit enter 40A
* Leave the controller resistance and throttle
* Switch to MPH from Km/h
* Switch from N-m to Lbs
* Hit calculate

First thing to understand is that the top speed on the graph is the *freewheel speed*.... not the speed you will actually go As a rule of thumb I subtract about 20% from this number to account for all the losses we see in real life (wind resistance, rolling resistance, magic resistance, etc)

Ok - what are we seeing there?
Looks like you will do about 28mph with 55lbs of thrust off the line. See how the red power curve is very pointy and the blue thrust curve has a knee? This is caused by the current limit... you will be on the current limit all the way up to 20mph. Your burst acceleration (that I rate from 15mph to 30mph... in your case 25mph) will be just under 1KW. Thats ok, but not terribly impressive.

For comparison - lets look at what another 6S Lipo pack will do for you
This is 18S 66V with all other variables fixed

ahhh.... now we are talking!

Now your top speed is more like 41mph (a touch too fast... but you dont actually have to go that fast) and your thrust off the line is 70lbs. Most importantly your burst acceleration will be great from 20mph up to 35mph with power steadily raising from 1,500W to 1,800W. That is a nice power band and will make for an invigorating ride. Even going 20mph if you hit full throttle you will get a 40 LB punch in the butt! With the 12S pack you have a sad little 25lb punch in the butt.

So - is it ok?
Sure - would make for a fine bike. You can fly around at 28mph with ease for 700 - 1000W. Totally reasonable bike.

Later on, when you get used to the bike and you decide that perhaps you need a little more "get up and go" just throw another 6S inline and you will be set. If you really want to get crazy solder the shunt to 60A and have a bike that scares you again

-methods

[gensem]

You just explained using the midway torque hummm... I never payed too much attention to it. Just the initial torque.
I think I ll do a 18s 2p in the end and keep the amps lower avoiding wire melt.

BR

[Hyena]

For what it's worth Methods gets my endorsement as well.
Obviously his reputation on the forum is well known but as a vendor I've always found him fantastic to deal with as well. Actually I feel bad calling him a vendor. Don't think that shaking methods will result in banner adds and sales propaganda falling out of his pockets, just like Justin @ ebikes.ca, he is one of the most legit people you could get ebike gear from. Look no further noobs, uncle methods will hook you up!

Good luck with sales Methods, I know you've gotten yourself in alot of personal debt over the years and especially recently in contributing to the electric revolution. It's one thing to hook people up when they want to get into performance ebikes but it's another to put so much of your own time and money on the line to do so. Hi five man!

[methods]

You just explained using the midway torque hummm... I never payed too much attention to it. Just the initial torque.
I think I ll do a 18s 2p in the end and keep the amps lower avoiding wire melt.

BR

You have got it man!
If you really want to judge how a bike will perform then what you are interested in is the "power band" around the peak.
Peak power will usually be about 1/2 way between 0mph and the freewheel speed.
Depending on the shape of the peak, you may want to take 10mph before and after... or maybe 20mph before and 5mph after, etc. What you are really looking for is the area where you will experience the greatest performance.

The trap that a lot of us have fallen into is only looking at the off-the-line thrust... that leads us to buy lower and lower KV motors... which blast off the line but then experience a steady decay of thrust up to the freewheel speed. By using a higher KV motor what happens is that you ride the current limit (at a pretty steady thrust) off the line and up to some speed (say 20mph).... and then the bike EXPLODES into unexpected acceleration as you run into the peak power band.

I first experienced this with my trike. I switched from a 5305 @ 100V to a 9x7 9C on the same 100V. The tiny 9C motor outperformed the X5 to such a degree that I started rethinking everything I knew about hub motors. There is a negative however... hammering higher KV motors off the line sometimes results in weird resonant rattling sounds - "sick sounds" - from the motor... But I just consider those as a reminder to stay off the gas until I am at higher efficiency.

My new favorite setup:

18S 66V lipo
HS3540 in 26" wheel

I have not topped it out yet but exceed 40mph on the way to work. Acceleration off the line is a touch soft... but once it hits 15 or 20mph it gets down right scary. Every person who has ridden my bike has brought it back looking rattled

In closing, and confirming the comment about reducing heat on the motor... look at the efficiency curve. Anything we do to the motors below about 10 - 15mph is pure waste and counterproductive. 50% efficiency is horrific - both on heating the motor and range. That in mind I am going to start lowering the current limit on my daily rider. I am thinking that 50 - 60A might be the sweet spot, and if it is, I will go ahead and start modding these controllers up to that current. As they stand 40A is extremely conservative and geared more towards low C-rate battery compatibility than peak performance.

-methods

[methods]

I keep getting the same question via PM and email so I guess it is time to answer it here on the board:

"Are you competing with Justin at ebikes.ca"?

I purchase many of the things I sell from ebikes.ca
I do not sell "for" ebikes.ca
I buy things from Justin because the products he sells are engineered to a higher standard than any other source currently available. He does not advertise this, but I know from watching over the years. Little things like the quality of the switches, the 100V capacitors, the IRFB4110 mosfets, the 12awg wire, the true Anderson connectors, the heavy trace buildup on the boards.....

So for those of you who wish to "support ebikes.ca" I suggest you do that in whatever way you see fit. I am just a guy selling what I think is the best gear available.... and the truth is that if another retailer started selling something better (pffft ) I would sell their stuff instead.

...and I really would. Engineering first, profits second... always. That is my promise to you

I hope this helps clear things up.

-methods

[gensem]

Methods, mind to answer one more question?

You said that you favorite setup is something like
18S 66V lipo
HS3540 in 26" wheel

I ll assume that you are using 15ah worth of lipo and doing 80% SOC and have the controller set 50 amps.

Acording to ebikes.ca beta simulator you would run out of batteries in under 10 miles.

Is this the kind of range you see in real life?

[methods]

Methods, mind to answer one more question?

You said that you favorite setup is something like
18S 66V lipo
HS3540 in 26" wheel

I ll assume that you are using 15ah worth of lipo and doing 80% SOC and have the controller set 50 amps.

Actually no, I only have 10Ah and they are beat-down reject batteries so I usually only get about 8Ah out of them. I have my current limit set to 100A friend I see burst current of 130A and peaks of several hundred.... but I only burst like that a few times on any ride (if I plan to get any kind of range).

Acording to ebikes.ca beta simulator you would run out of batteries in under 10 miles.

Is this the kind of range you see in real life?

I think you are misinterpreting the simulation. In real life, last week I took an 18.5 mile ride and burned about 7Ah. Forget the simulator for calculating range... almost all bikes will get the same range - here is why:

1) Your pack has a certain number of Wh in it, for instance 18S 10Ah would have 66V * 10A = 660Wh.

2) Your bike will run an average Wh/mile (you can see this on the 3rd screen of the CA). This is driven by how you ride the bike... aggressively or Conservatively. Sure a more powerful bike has the "ability" to burn wh faster but that does not mean that it will. An efficient rider can do 20wh/mile with almost no pedaling. A hard rider can see 50wh/mile. Lately I have been running about 35wh/mile

3) Divide the wh of the pack by the wh/mile to get range. 660 / 35 = ~18.8 miles. That jives right? Now for a reality check... Most bikes can cruise pretty fast (say 25mph) for between 750W to 1kw. Lets say I am riding on average a little slower, maybe 18mph... so I am seeing about 660W continuous draw. We know my battery can put out 660W for 1 hour so that means I can ride at 18mph for 1 hour... or, 18 miles

I hope these rules of thumb help you.

For an 18S 15Ah pack I would expect a 30 mile range with "responsible riding". That does not mean pedaling or going slow... just minimizing the acceleration and maintaining speed once it is achieved. Hard tires, hard riding surface. On the other hand, if you want to run 24x3" knobbies inflated to 20psi on steep dirt trails with lots of heavy acceleration I would say you could get about 5 miles of range.

Let me know if you want to go through any more scenarios.
Most importantly - remember how sore your ass will be after 15 miles

-methods

[amberwolf]

Most importantly - remember how sore your ass will be after 15 miles

That's why you need to grow a good beard.

You know, so you can ride the *comfortable* bikes.

[gensem]

Most importantly - remember how sore your ass will be after 15 miles

Haha...

So, I was actually trying to make a relation in between Justin simulator and PSE bycicle power calculator.
http://www.mne.psu.edu/lamancusa/ProdDiss/Bicycle/bikecalc1.htm

Even factoring with 30% eficiency loss, number are still off.

Thats why I asked for real range figures.

btw I have a Large CA in my desk for like 2 months, I was saving it for my greyborg bike and was using a turnigy watt meter. Im starting to think It would be a good idea to use it.


tks methods

[methods]

All of the domestic and international orders have gone out for today



FYI: I will sell any of the kit piece parts (except the motor) individually.


For individual components it is $5 flat rate shipping for 1 item or Free Shipping for multiple items.

Large Screen CA direct plug in $120
25A controller $125
40A controller $175
Sensorless controller $200
Throttles $15
Torque arms $22/$28
Freehweels $26/$28
SS Washer $5

Hx35xx motor $365 shipped (with purchase of additional components)

-methods

[Spacey]

Just to add my voice as I have the same set up 18S Lipo and HS3540 motor with 45amp Lyen sensorless controller.

My commute to work is 13 miles and I tank it full throttle, I only charge the Lipo now to 4.08V and it end up at 3.79V after 13 miles. This is with 17.4Ah of Lipo.

Methods, mind to answer one more question?

You said that you favorite setup is something like
18S 66V lipo
HS3540 in 26" wheel

I ll assume that you are using 15ah worth of lipo and doing 80% SOC and have the controller set 50 amps.

Acording to ebikes.ca beta simulator you would run out of batteries in under 10 miles.

Is this the kind of range you see in real life?

[methods]

The number of Ah and Wh you burn would be a much better number if you have it.

wh/mile = ?
Wh per trip = ?
Ah per trip = ?

(assuming you have a CA and that it is calibrated)

-methods

Just to add my voice as I have the same set up 18S Lipo and HS3540 motor with 45amp Lyen sensorless controller.

My commute to work is 13 miles and I tank it full throttle, I only charge the Lipo now to 4.08V and it end up at 3.79V after 13 miles. This is with 17.4Ah of Lipo.

[RVD]

I just wanted to say that mine arrived in the mail! Methods did a great job with the packaging and he also did the phase write modification on the little plastic thing so that the wire won't get fried.

Overall an awesome experience. Everyone knows and trusts methods around here so there was never anything to worry about but getting the big box was great!

[Erogo]

Most importantly - remember how sore your ass will be after 15 miles

That's why you need to grow a good beard.

You know, so you can ride the *comfortable* bikes.

Oh! I had you pictured sitting on your beard to make the seat more comfortable!

[Spacey]

Sorry for late reply, I've just bought the large screen CA and have not installed it yet as the plug broke on my older sensor less controller and just have snipped wires for the CA to connect to. a bit worried about the 2 black wires? I suppose it doesn't matter which black wire goes to which?

Will get better figures for you soon.

The number of Ah and Wh you burn would be a much better number if you have it.

wh/mile = ?
Wh per trip = ?
Ah per trip = ?

(assuming you have a CA and that it is calibrated)

-methods

Just to add my voice as I have the same set up 18S Lipo and HS3540 motor with 45amp Lyen sensorless controller.

My commute to work is 13 miles and I tank it full throttle, I only charge the Lipo now to 4.08V and it end up at 3.79V after 13 miles. This is with 17.4Ah of Lipo.