Affordable 9C “wife kits” (sale over - see last post)

[methods]

Very interested in these new-sounding controllers. Keep up the good work Methods, thanks.

I actually feel like I am going backwards..... I landed the first batch of 18 fet controllers what feels like YEARS ago... and now here I am coming full circle. At least this time we dont have to screw around with the power resistors and programming is getting easier.

We will be eliminating a lot of the messing nonsense wires that come out of the controller and working to integrate into the V3 CA for a lot of that functionality. Going to be the first batch of non-diode controllers (i.e. not backwards compatible without mods)

-methods

[teklektik]

One last question - what 26" rim do you use?
(...it seems there's always just one more.... )

[methods]

The Sketchy Chinese Dude who assembles my 9C wheels in China uses the cheapest rim available. Color is "shiny". Material is "shiny".

If you are asking that question then my answer is that you should re-lace into a quality high end rim - double wall welded etc. I run these rims and I am fine with them... but then I am broke. If you have cash and love high end then go for it. There are some pictures on my website

http://www.methtek.com/2011/11/12/2812-20-front-37/

-methods

[Beachcruzer]

Looks like I have two controllers on the shelf - so the sale is still on. They are currently set up for 25A. If you want 35-40A give it a day for Matthew to make the mod and calibrate the shunt.

PM sent.

[Macgyversklz]

PM sent

[methods]

Ok.... I guess this means I have to actually check my PM's now

Let me get my shovel....

-methods

[Kinni420]

this is actually a Power Circle rim on my 2810 kit. very nice rim. you can see pics of it on my thread. wait ill find one. came with the kit.

[teklektik]

Thanks! Kind of hard to figure out exactly which Power Circle rim it is, but if it's single wall, then it's probably a P18K. This is for a low stress bike so it should do fine.

[999zip999]

I took that sticker off 2nd. day. Plus the spokes needed adjusting a couple of times. Can't find the size of that nipple yet. Plus there is a 9c ( ? ) wine at 14-15mph then goes away. I do love the setup, But after beachcomer's 77v40a cruiser w/coaster brakes at 38mph an atoema front hub.. I'm going to 72v tomorrow. I do Love it and would buy will buy again soon. Thanks method's

[methods]

I sell spoke wrenches that work with all the larger spokes used on hub motors (13G,12G etc) - I think they are $9 bucks or something.

They are rusty junk, but they work and we use them here.

http://www.methtek.com/2011/11/12/spoke-wrench-21/

-methods

[Kinni420]

Plus there is a 9c ( ? ) wine at 14-15mph then goes away.

I get that too at 16 mph. If you watch my video (link in signature) you can hear it at 3:18. Mildly annoying but acceptable as hell!

for some reason that spoke nipple is a really. REALLY wierd size. Even my high end bike shop was puzzled when I tried to get a wrench from them. 12 is too small 13 is too big and strips nipples. Just be careful with the 13.

[methods]

We are finally starting to have some of our longer lead items land.

We now have in stock and available:

Full Twist Regen Throttles
Half Twist Regen Throttles
7spd freewheels 11T-30T
Water cut inside washers
Large Screen CA's
Stand Alone CA's

Still waiting for Justins new torque arm design to arrive.
Still working on our new 18 fet line

Mix and match with anything above.

Yes I realize I am 20 PM's in the hole.... Easter caught me by surprise. I think tomorrow is the big day to dig through all my PM's

-methods

[Tommy L]

Got mine!

Excellent service from Methods!

If you need 30mph, I run 28s1p 38120 of headway at 89.6v nom/717wh available (95v off the charger) with
Methods 7225 controller shunt to 40amp. CA set to 28 amps. 2500-3000 watts max with this set up.
Once you get rolling to WOT good and efficient at 26wh/km (42wh/mile) 8miles use 333wh (pack weight in back pack 23lbs).
Looks like 23lbs of LiFePO4 will get me 22km/13.6m at 80%.

If you need to go farther..... slow down or get more batteries....
Check spokes for tightness. Check often, things stretch and get loose under these stresses!

This 2810 has Torque and pulls!
I have this in a FS Hooligan with 26" rims.

I had package sent to the North East (upstate NY) package received in 5 business days.
Again, most excellent service from Methods! Thank you Methods!

Tommy L sends...... \\m//

[methods]

I am ending all sales of items that I did not personally develop.
The stuff is still for sale on my website http://www.MethTek.com but I will no longer advertise here in the forum.

It is time to end commercialism on Endless Sphere.
No more hawking Chinese shit for a quick buck

-methods

[hjns]

Hi methods,

Looking forwards to your first open-source development project. You can sign me up, whatever it is going to be.

[John Bozi]

Methods, I was recommended the 2812 motor but can't find it on your shop or do you know where I can get it or a better motor for hill climbing (not top speed)?

[methods]

Only a mad man would sell a 2812 motor.

If you want to climb a hill with a direct drive hub my advice is to put it in the smallest wheel you can, drill a lot of holes in it, run a high enough voltage to get your RPM up (you want to climb fast... not slow... because efficiency goes up with RPM). Almost any motor can do this for you... as it is really the balance of the Voltage, KV, and RPM that you want to find. The sweet spot where your efficiency does not overshadow your cooling ability.

Short climb? How about blowing air on the motor... or better yet... spray it with water while you climb. You could easily run 2-3X the power through a motor that is being cooled evaporatively.

So most motors are a 10x6 these days
Still a lot of 9x7... that would be a good place to start
8x8 if you can find one
6x10 would be the lowest reasonable KV that I think you will find.

New subject... This weekend Dan Hanebrink brought his mid-mount-hub bikes up to my ranch. With a tiny 500W motor we climbed straight up the steepest hill I had here without even getting the motor warm. Motors run right through the gears (7 of them).. and I was not even running in "low gear". I had another gear set up front with like 11 less teeth I could have ran but did not need to.

Point?
Hub motors are amazing for almost everything... the one thing they suck at is hill climbing. This is because the RPM is too low... you need to spin a motor fast to win - and that is what the gearing allows you to do. So - that is why I say that you should run the smallest possible wheel you can.

have fun

-methods

[spinningmagnets]

With a tiny 500W motor we climbed straight up the steepest hill I had here without even getting the motor warm. Motors run right through the gears (7 of them).. and I was not even running in "low gear"

So...does this mean that you're considering "coming over to the dark side" of the non-hub world?

[methods]

No chance
Not because I dont like gears or realize that gears are useful... just because I dont have the mechanical prowess to make it happen. My area of interest and expertise calls for minimizing misery - which means throwing a hub motor on the back. Grinding up a torque arm is even more of that type of work than I want to do. I really prefer playing with Electronics.

-methods

[Kinni420]

hey Patrick. Ive been running into a problem with my 2810. Lets start at the beginning. A few months ago on a snowy ride to work my motor came up with this weird shaking. Turns out that the little cover I wrapped around the motor connectors was actually holding the water and snow in and shorting the wires. I removed the cover ( a piece of inner tube zip tied around the connectors ) and air dried them. Problem solved.

NOW its dry out and Im getting the same issue. All the connectors are good and the bike starts to shake and then the motor shuts off.

You think I may have excess water in the motor itself? I never took it apart like we talked about last month. That Justin video scared the crap out of me.

P.S. still asking about the capacitors in that modified 40A controller. Before I take the controller apart to find out max V, I'll ask one more time about it. Im running 18s2p lipo. Your first post in this forum says 100v caps. Id like to stick another battery in there for 24. I have modified 3s batteries to make 21 but I WANNA GO FASTER!!!! I have the room in the falcon bag. max charge on that 24s would be around 100v. Never tried it. JKBrigman has tested his kit on 24s but it was a short ride. Id hate to blow my controller, I wouldnt know how to fix it.

[methods]

hey Patrick. Ive been running into a problem with my 2810. Lets start at the beginning. A few months ago on a snowy ride to work my motor came up with this weird shaking. Turns out that the little cover I wrapped around the motor connectors was actually holding the water and snow in and shorting the wires. I removed the cover ( a piece of inner tube zip tied around the connectors ) and air dried them. Problem solved.

NOW its dry out and Im getting the same issue. All the connectors are good and the bike starts to shake and then the motor shuts off.

Bad hall signal. I would measure it at the back of the connector on the controller side. One probe on GND pin and one probe on Yellow, then Blue, then Green. Controller on (to power the halls). Then very slowly turn the wheel. Meter (on volts DC) should slowly switch between something near zero volts and something near 4V or 5V.

Water around conductors that have a potential over a couple of volts on them creates electrolysis. Electrolysis eats away copper leaving that green crap that you know as corrosion. Look around the connectors for corrosion. If you see any clean it and inspect the copper underneath.

This same corrosion may have happened in the motor where the hall wires are soldered to the hall sensors. This is the #1 cause of motor failure (NOT!!! BLOWN HALLS). Many people think they have "blown" their halls or "overheated" their halls. In my opinion and in my experience the true failure mode (if heat was involved) was de-soldering of the hall/wire junction (or cold solder joint / kissing contact) or - more likely - corrosion eating away at the leads of the hall sensors. The point where the leads enter the sensor is the most likely place for electrolysis because it is the point where the physical gap between uninsulated conductors is smallest.

My point: Depending on how a motor is mounted it is possible for the halls to be at the top, at the bottom or somewhere on the sides. Many Crystalyte motors were set up at 6 and 12 on the clock giving users a 50-50 chance to fail. IIRC the 9C is mounted at something like 2 or 3 or 4 on the clock - so usually they do not rest where water may collect.

Now to my actual point - sounds like you have a kissing contact in your system that is being affected by either heat (thermal expansion) or vibration. The controller you are running is "smart" and will not attempt to run the motor if it does not get a valid hall combination. There are only so many valid combinations... so if the controller sees a non-valid combo it stops driving.

You think I may have excess water in the motor itself? I never took it apart like we talked about last month. That Justin video scared the crap out of me.

If you are worried about water then just drill a big hole in the side of the motor and then take it out and get the windings hotter than 100C. This will boil any water or moisture in the motor and cause it to evaporate out of the hole in the form of steam. I would then spray some sort of inhibitor in the hole... an expensive option is this:



P.S. still asking about the capacitors in that modified 40A controller. Before I take the controller apart to find out max V, I'll ask one more time about it. Im running 18s2p lipo. Your first post in this forum says 100v caps. Id like to stick another battery in there for 24. I have modified 3s batteries to make 21 but I WANNA GO FASTER!!!! I have the room in the falcon bag. max charge on that 24s would be around 100v. Never tried it. JKBrigman has tested his kit on 24s but it was a short ride. Id hate to blow my controller, I wouldnt know how to fix it.

If you got the controller from me then it has 100V caps, 100V 4110 mosfets, and it can handle 24S. I am not saying that it will be super reliable... but I am saying that it will probably work. I run 24S on most of my controllers at some point in time. You are more likely to blow your controller by increasing the current limit than by running higher voltage - especially with a low KV motor like yours. People who run higher KV motors blow more controllers because they are able to load the system harder and for longer... running 24S on a highly modded controller into a lower KV motor results in the controller only seeing the current limit for a relatively short period of time.

You may want to check the temp on the regulator resistor when you go up to 24S. You can access this by removing the cover with the switch on it. That is where you can mod the shunt as well as mod the V-Drop resistor. I am not going to get into calculating values for this - but long story short your goal is to minimize the drop across the LM317 to something under 40V and maintaining enough power handling to not burn up the resistor.

Hmm... remembering now that you may have a 6 fet modded to 40A. Yea - going up to 24S is going to be pushing the limits for sure. If you want to do this I suggest going into the cover described above and removing some of the solder on the shunt to lower your current limit down to something closer to 20A or 30A. 40A and 24S will be the ragged edge and eventually the controller will fail.

-methods

[Kinni420]

be aware, the problem has since somewhat solved itself. I can get a couple miles then the motor starts to get that weird vibrating (barely) but doesn't shut off anymore. The connectors look "OK" but could stand a little cleaning after 1000 miles of winter riding. Its just about time to take the whole darn thing apart and clean, lube, grease, check all the wires etc.

Is it possible to get a 2810 to 100C? Ive done some really heavy climbs round here. Motor casing never even gets more than warm to the touch even after 75wh/mi.

[methods]

I have taken them to over 210C and had them survive.
I have a video showing IR Temp right on the windings with smoke pouring out.

You need either more current, more load, or lower efficiency (i.e. lower RPM) - and dont let the cover temp fool you - it is only loosely bound to the winding temp.

Dont fix what aint broke... try to find the hall wire issue and just fix that (that's my advice)

-methods

[Beachcruzer]

Hmm... remembering now that you may have a 6 fet modded to 40A. Yea - going up to 24S is going to be pushing the limits for sure. If you want to do this I suggest going into the cover described above and removing some of the solder on the shunt to lower your current limit down to something closer to 20A or 30A. 40A and 24S will be the ragged edge and eventually the controller will fail.

-methods

This got my attention since I'm running one of your 6 fet/40A controllers on 24s. I usually limit current through the CA to 30A. Will that keep me from stepping off the ragged edge, or should I take some solder off my shunt?

[methods]

No - the CA accomplishes the same thing.

Being on the edge is being on the edge... it could mean that you can do it for 5 years and never have a problem and it could mean that you run it for 5 minutes and POP. Just yesterday I took a 12 fet that was running 18S and a 70A current limit. It had been totally reliable for as long as I could remember until I got the stupid idea to stall the motor to try and see the peak stall power. Did it 4 times then Pftttt - blown fet.

Riding the bike responsibly can allow one to ride on the edge near indefinitely - thats how guys like Doc and myself ran 100V 100A on 12 fet and 18 fet controllers for so long... we were running low KV motors (5305) and rarely stalling out (because we had the grunt to keep moving)

Another guy might take the same 12 fet and hook it up at 18S and 50A and blow it the first day running a 5303... all depends on how the system balances out, how the rider handles the bike, and how luck treats you.

The good news? IRFB4110 fets are very cheap now - we used to pay $5 each and now I just got a quote for $1 each... so repairing a 6 fet is pretty trivial.

-methods