5403/5404 US/CANADA deadline! order is made!!!

[Floont]

I emailed max earlier today asking if he would update the thread with the current status. I know my emails get through.

[Floont]

Max updated everyone via email who has sent a payment or at least sent him an email stating they would send payment.

If anyone is procrastinating, the order will be finalized on Friday. (The order delay was that Jay in Australia was hospitalized and gets out today).

If no payment is received, it will be too late to buy this powerful motor. Act now if you have any intentions of getting one.

[sabb]

Max does not reply to my emails. I do not know why but I have no reply's to both emails and no pm's from him.

anybody else want to tell me the amount for a 5403 in a 26" wheel with 135 mm axle and max's paypal so I can send the money.

Stephen

[Doctorbass]

Max does not reply to my emails. I do not know why but I have no reply's to both emails and no pm's from him.

anybody else want to tell me the amount for a 5403 in a 26" wheel with 135 mm axle and max's paypal so I can send the money.

Stephen

This is 420 USD + 65$USD ( you can choose from 20" to 700C and 21 or 31mm rim)

to that total ( 485USD you need to add the Quebec tax and than you get the total: 552.54CAD) (18 oct 2011)

NOTE: To be Paypal paid at maxpowerev@hotmail.com ( use PERSONNAL and GIFT)


Doc

[sabb]

Thanks Stephane
paypal sent as gift 2 minutes ago

Max if you still cant get my emails or maybe I dont get yours I put my phone numbers in the paypal note

Thanks
Stephen

[Doctorbass]

So here is the update i got from max and the Wojtek thread for the europe group buy:

I dont know why Max did not have updated this thread yet


PLEASE READ THIS:

There is apparently some modifications to the motor we will get:

Kenny no more produce any cast hub motor of the style we want

stator width: not 42mm but 40mm ( X5 is 32mm) and HX is 35mm...

-so the replacement for the 5400 motor is only 5mm wider stator than the HX35

-It is stamped stator ( like the 9C and HX) and not cast stator like the old great strong X5

So i would more call them a HX40 motor.... not a 5400...

see the thread about that:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30718&start=390

Doc

[Floont]

Thanks for a clear update, Doc.

I'm out!

Kenny can go F**k himself.

[Arlo1]

2mm on a stator and having it stamped is not the end of the world. The stamped stator is lighter so thats a good thing. You guys will just need to cool it better!

[Evoforce]

Hmmm.....What's going on here?

[Doctorbass]

The stamped stator is lighter so thats a good thing.

Yeah... until it burn... They are not made for abuse like the X5.. and what we all wanted is the X5 desing for his endurance about heat... that's it !

more stator = less heat loss for the same power... and watercooling a less powerfull motor is like accepting using your battery to partially heat water... this is not the goal guys!

we wanted better copper mass and better heat transfer...

Anyway.. do what you want..

I know Max did an awsome job and took alot of time to help us getting a great extreme motor... but the problem is from china...

Kenny is not anymore on my paypal list!!

Doc

[Arlo1]

The stamped stator is lighter so thats a good thing.

Yeah... until it burn... They are not made for abuse like the X5.. and what we all wanted is the X5 desing for his endurance about heat... that's it !

more stator = less heat loss for the same power... and watercooling a less powerfull motor is like accepting using your battery to partially heat water... this is not the goal guys!

we wanted better copper mass and better heat transfer...

Anyway.. do what you want..

I know Max did an awsome job and took alot of time to help us getting a great extreme motor... but the problem is from china...

Kenny is not anymore on my paypal list!!

Doc

Doc you are looking at it all wrong. The X5 has a heavy stator to help keep the windings cool but this is not a good thing. It means the windings are still getting hot in the first place and you are using the stator to pull the heat away. A continuous watt ratting for a heavy and a light stator is the same the light stator will just burn in less time but they will both be the same efficiency and from a performance stand point lighter is faster as well with a light stator you have less weight to accelerate there for putting less heat in the motor to move the bike!

Using A heavy stator to help keep a motor cool is the wrong answer its worse then water cooling! The proper answer is to increase efficiency and you can only do this with thicker phase wires or making them spin faster!

[Arlo1]

The stamped stator is lighter so thats a good thing.

Yeah... until it burn... They are not made for abuse like the X5.. and what we all wanted is the X5 desing for his endurance about heat... that's it !

more stator = less heat loss for the same power... and watercooling a less powerfull motor is like accepting using your battery to partially heat water... this is not the goal guys!

we wanted better copper mass and better heat transfer...

Anyway.. do what you want..

I know Max did an awsome job and took alot of time to help us getting a great extreme motor... but the problem is from china...

Kenny is not anymore on my paypal list!!

Doc

Doc you are looking at it all wrong. The X5 has a heavy stator to help keep the windings cool but this is not a good thing. It means the windings are still getting hot in the first place and you are using the stator to pull the heat away. A continuous watt ratting for a heavy and a light stator is the same the light stator will just burn in less time but they will both be the same efficiency and from a performance stand point lighter is faster as well with a light stator you have less weight to accelerate there for putting less heat in the motor to move the bike!

Using A heavy stator to help keep a motor cool is the wrong answer its worse then water cooling! The proper answer is to increase efficiency and you can only do this with thicker phase wires or making them spin faster!

[oatnet]

It means the windings are still getting hot in the first place and you are using the stator to pull the heat away. A continuous watt ratting for a heavy and a light stator is the same the light stator will just burn in less time

That definitely is the case on a dyno, but most of my duty cycle on an ebike is not continious, so having a stator that can leech heat away during periods of lower demand means I can burst it with higher levels of current. I think most of us believe that the 53xx can handle more power than the HX.

The 54xx is a known entity, which we have seen perform on Stealth bikes, and I'd suspect most of us here envisioned emulating that performance. I think part of the interest in this group buy was to get a 54xx before they went away forever.

This NEW motor is NOT a known entity. We would be the guinea pigs for it, so we can only speculate how it will perform, by extrapolating from the HX. Even if the HX is sorted, that does not mean this new motor will be sorted too. I know a lot of early adopters of the HX funded Kenny's Beta test, discovering issues like the insulation-slicing wire channel, and I am sure he would like early adopters to Beta test the new motors for him. Further, we build up a large body of work around his new motor, and viola he has a new well rounded, community supported product. If folks want to do that - thank you! - but I'll wait until you have sorted the motor for Kenny before I buy one myself.

I'd play hardball with Kenny. Maybe our order is a drop in the xlyte bucket, but anyone who works so hard at manipulating the market with the sensorless BS, doesn't want to turn away $$$ or lose market share. I'd tell Kenny that our interest was in the 54xx and not an unproven new motor, we don't have enough interest in the new motor to meet MOQ, and ask him what it would take to make the 54xx. Truth is, he can make anything he wants, we just have to make it worth his while - I'd pay another $30 to get the 54xx.

-JD

PS:

Taking the x5 from a 32mm magnet to a 42mm is a 31% increase.
Taking the Hx from a 35mm magnet to a 40mm magnet is a 14% increase.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
.

.

[Evoforce]

Why did Kenny have to do this? Now, I doubt if this will fit my need. I wanted racing motors or I was going to use this in a motorcycle build set up as stoke monkey + one in the rear wheel. I need more info on the difference. So far, it appears I am screwed with my plans... 50 mph is not good enough, and if it can't handle heat as well as a 5403, and if it is truly only 14% instead of 31% that's a lot of difference. I would like to hear more opinions about what the perceived differences and performances would be...I really am happy with my 5303 and 5304 motors. I have not owned the latest sensorless versions which I hear have issues. I do have a sensorless controller that I had to use because of a non working sensored controller. The sensorless controller works but it is not an instant start and it hesitates trying to decide which direction to turn(bad for racing). Anyway, we want the motor Kenny said he was selling, not something else, unless it is better for the same money.

[flathill]

The stamped stator is lighter so thats a good thing.

Yeah... until it burn... They are not made for abuse like the X5.. and what we all wanted is the X5 desing for his endurance about heat... that's it !

more stator = less heat loss for the same power... and watercooling a less powerfull motor is like accepting using your battery to partially heat water... this is not the goal guys!

we wanted better copper mass and better heat transfer...

Anyway.. do what you want..

I know Max did an awsome job and took alot of time to help us getting a great extreme motor... but the problem is from china...

Kenny is not anymore on my paypal list!!

Doc

Doc you are looking at it all wrong. The X5 has a heavy stator to help keep the windings cool but this is not a good thing. It means the windings are still getting hot in the first place and you are using the stator to pull the heat away. A continuous watt ratting for a heavy and a light stator is the same the light stator will just burn in less time but they will both be the same efficiency and from a performance stand point lighter is faster as well with a light stator you have less weight to accelerate there for putting less heat in the motor to move the bike!

Using A heavy stator to help keep a motor cool is the wrong answer its worse then water cooling! The proper answer is to increase efficiency and you can only do this with thicker phase wires or making them spin faster!

Isn't the X5 stator cast aluminum? Stamped steel is not as good for wicking heat...and I bet the weight difference isn't as much as you might think...the cost difference on the other hand

seems like a bait and switch to me

I wonder what motor the latest Bombers are using?

[Floont]

...I wonder what motor the latest Bombers are using?

My neighbor just got a stealth bomber 2 days ago. The motor is definitely a 5404 or 5405. I took measurements...
...and took it for a test ride!

[scriewy]

Evoforce the 14% 31% is relitive from a stand point of owners upgrading from 5300 will gain 31% and owners upgrading from Hx35 which has wider stator than 5300 will gain 14%, the end result is 40mm stator for all, their fluxes even might be proximet strength, just for how long they can hold same continues power will be different till they heat to leathal zone of varnish melt.

they should also have saturation at same power, at a certain power like 14kw if you'l push more power 15kw 16kw 25kw you will not gain any torque, every watt over 14kw will go to heat.

in world this is expresed as, if you like to ride 100kmh and your trip is 10min ride at 100kmh, on H35 you'l have fun for first 7min at 100kmh and then youl have to let go of the throttle to lower speed 80kmh or 70, on 5400 youl pass the whole trip at 100kmh befor it heats up too much and
you'l need to throttle down.

it's about how fast you heat something and how fast that heat disipates.

[maxwell65]

hi all ,,
the true 5403 and 04 at 15kg are back in the game and available to be had,,,we had some set backs,,,, Apparently we couldn't get these was due to proprietry reasons based on the design of the motor, but this has since been resolved. If we order a sufficient quantity Kenny can "remake" these for us. I guess that's kinda fair enough if he has to get the stators etc made and it simply cannot be done without MOQ,,,we are close to MOQ but a few people may need to order 2 motors in order to fulfill MOQ,,,the post has been updated today and will be re-updated nov 5th.

[Farfle]

Sounds good to me, still ordering my two

[Evoforce]

See my post in (Crystalyte 5404/5403 Upgraded Last Call).

[Doctorbass]

Payment sent

Take II...

Let's cross our fingers!

Doc

[Drunkskunk]

My Email's sent. I can't help it. I'm a Clyte fanboy. These should be fun.

[ZOMGVTEK]

As long as its more old school 53xx/54xx than the new HS series, it should be a great hub.

I'll try and get my other two friends in on this, but its going to be pushing it since they just about never use the bikes.

How far off are we from the minimum order Kenny wanted?

[sabb]

Max I never got any emails from you but my paypal shows as completed so I hope you are counting me as one of the 23 firm orders

If it gets down to the end and you need one more for the MOQ I will buy another.

Thanks
Stephen

[Doctorbass]

Still 10 missing motor request to complete

C-mon guys..

Doc