FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

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FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:28 am

*** shipping cost for a single board in a bubble envelope updated below.

I designed this board for my personal use in my Porsche 944 conversion, but I had extra boards made so I am making them available to others. This is a 32 cell Lithium Battery MONITORING System, everything is isolated so any number of boards can be used to monitor most cell counts (there are some cell count combinations that won't allow all of the alarm relays to function properly, basically a minimum of 4 cells need to be connected to the "top" Cell Log 8 for the alarm output to function, all other Cell Logs should have all 8 cells connected)

Image

Image

Board dimensions are 3.4" x 7.62" (the RJ45 connector sticks out slightly past the board making a total dimension of ~7.875).

The boards are fully assembled including all connectors and relays. The Cell Log 8's are not included. The alarm connector (pigtail) that comes with the Cell Log 8 is required for alarm use and plugs into the connectors on the bottom of the PCB. (if desired the alarm wires could be soldered to the connector pads on the top of the PCB).

The Cell Log 8's require some extra securing method to ensure they stay in place during use, IE double sided tape, "velcro" etc.

There are multiple methods of interfacing with the Cell Log alarms and some of them are described further on my blog:
http://electricporsche.rwaudio.com/2...eakout-module/

I will have a wiring diagram shortly for the RJ45 connector, but it is also described on the blog and is very simple to wire up.

I have also checked with Dimitri of Clean Power Auto LLC and he is okay with selling his Head End Board individually (from his MiniBMS system). His head end board will work exactly the same connected to the NC loop on the Cell Log 8 Breakout Module as it would with his regular MiniBMS system.

I didn't design this board to get into the "BMS" market, I designed it because I needed one (3-4 actually) it was a small PCB run of a fairly large board so the cost per board was a bit high, there are also 17 three pin connectors, 4 slim spring connectors, an RJ45 connector and 6 high quality hermetically sealed relays along with the 4 connectors that the cell logs plug into along with my time to assemble the board and the time to design/layout/order/test this PCB. This leads to the pricing:

1-4 boards $80.00 US each
5-9 boards $75.00 US each
10+ boards $70.00 US each
(I am located in Calgary Canada)

As of today I have 50 raw pcb's on hand and parts to assemble 17 complete boards, the first 17 will be sold on a first come first serve basis, I will then order the parts to populate the remaining PCB's.

***Shipping cost for a single board in a bubble envelope within Canada is $3, to the lower 48 States $4
Shipping for any number of boards is $20.00US to the lower 48 US states
Shipping in Canada varies quite a bit so for the best rate send me your postal code ($15-22 for the variety of the postal codes I tried)
I will ship virtually worldwide just give me your address and I will get a quote.



If ordering the Cell Log 8's from Hobbyking.com I would recommend that you also purchase this screwdriver http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=11094" it's cheap, it's good quality (for the price) and it works perfectly for the 51 screw terminals on the board! (unless you already have a decent 3mm flat head screwdriver)

The usual disclaimer applies, not everything shown in the video is included, the price is for the assembled Breakout Module only, not the Cell Log 8's, Cat5 cable or anything else shown. Although I don't really post here, I read quite a bit and have been registered for a long time, you are welcome to "check me out" on diyelectriccar.com (same username) or ebay (same username) or rwaudio.com (my audio hobby) or electricporsche.ca (my blog etc).

Thanks,
Robin
Last edited by rwaudio on Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:56 pm

Given the audience of this forum I thought I would add an option to assemble it yourself.
You can buy the RAW PCB, or a kit including all of the parts. I'll post the BOM for the parts that I use, feel free to substitute parts but you are on your own to figure out if they will work or not.

PCB: $30 Shipping in a bubble envelope should be about $5, I will find a suitable envelope and confirm the price.

cell log PCB.jpg


Kit: $70 Shipping could be done in a bubble envelope or box (the box being safer) Shipping in a foam padded box is $20, the same as a completed board. I will find out if it is worthwhile ship the kit in a bubble envelope.

Cell Log kit1.jpg
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby jonescg » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:05 pm

I might be interested in a few of these - currently it only fits 4 units right? I will probably go for a lower DC Bus (700 V gives me the heebie jeebies) so 4 per board sounds perfect.

Will let you know in a few months time though.
Cheers,
CHRIS
Voltron the Electric RG250 - Dual Agnis, Kelly 1200A controller, 6 kWh of A123 cells from Cell_Man and a shitty old chassis from 1985 :| Top speed 180 km/h, max current 600 A @ 100 V.
Voltron Evo 8)

If you think electric bikes are slow, build a faster one and we'll see you next year.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:17 pm

jonescg wrote:I might be interested in a few of these - currently it only fits 4 units right? I will probably go for a lower DC Bus (700 V gives me the heebie jeebies) so 4 per board sounds perfect.

Will let you know in a few months time though.
Cheers,
CHRIS


That is correct, 4 units (up to 32 cells per board). 700v is a lot!! what are you planning?
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby Doctorbass » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:21 am

Hello Robin,

Good to see you here!

As you can see, my www name is still Doctorbass as on the dBdragracing forum 12 years ago when i was with Teamxmax for the dB contests!

I remember you was selling some really great and popular line driver and booster and audio multiplexer :wink:

Great project for your electric porshe!

I am intersted in one board shipped to G2G-2E4 Canada

I understand that with my 24s setup i would not be able to trig the alarm due to only using the 3 first celllog.. but i have one of my ebike that is 30s so i could use it as well.

Pm me for the sale.

Thanks

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby Doctorbass » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:30 am

rwaudio wrote:
jonescg wrote:I might be interested in a few of these - currently it only fits 4 units right? I will probably go for a lower DC Bus (700 V gives me the heebie jeebies) so 4 per board sounds perfect.

Will let you know in a few months time though.
Cheers,
CHRIS


That is correct, 4 units (up to 32 cells per board). 700v is a lot!! what are you planning?


He is planning to fly over all next TTXGP racers this summer :twisted:

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:09 pm

Doctorbass wrote:Hello Robin,

Good to see you here!

As you can see, my www name is still Doctorbass as on the dBdragracing forum 12 years ago when i was with Teamxmax for the dB contests!

I remember you was selling some really great and popular line driver and booster and audio multiplexer :wink:

Great project for your electric porshe!

I am intersted in one board shipped to G2G-2E4 Canada

I understand that with my 24s setup i would not be able to trig the alarm due to only using the 3 first celllog.. but i have one of my ebike that is 30s so i could use it as well.

Pm me for the sale.

Thanks

Doc


Hey, it's nice to come across people from the past!!!

I would have a new line driver out but this EV project has taken much more time than I thought, it's also much better than the early design so it's justified.
One day I'll get this on the market (after the car is done!):

For the moment my life is EV, but once it's done it'll get a stereo too.

To clear up any confusion about my statement that the "top" cell log must have at least 4 cell's connected for the alarm to work it means:
The cell log breakout module can measure up to 32 cells. All of the alarms will work when measuring the following cell counts:
4,5,6,7,8
12,13,14,15,16
20,21,22,23,24
28,29,30,31,32

One of the alarms will not work when measuring a cell count not listed above.
If you have any questions about how it will behave using one of the cell counts not listed I will describe it in detail.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:33 pm

Shipping cost for a single board in a bubble envelope within Canada is $3, to the USA is $4. Multiple boards need to ship in a box (unless you want a bunch of individual envelopes for $3/$4 bucks each)
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby teklektik » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:02 pm

Can you post the BOM for the board?
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby Doctorbass » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:16 pm

Payment sent, Thanks Robin!

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:18 pm

teklektik wrote:Can you post the BOM for the board?


Of course!

(Digikey part numbers below)
Relay PB1205-ND x6
3 Pin Con ED2903-ND x17
9 Pin Con WM3007-ND x4
PCB electricporsche.ca x1
2 pin Con 277-2079-1-ND x4 (you can probably skip this and simply solder the alarm wires to the board if you are already soldering a board)
RJ45 AE10380-ND x1

The relay appears to be out of stock at Digikey, my alternate is 653-G6J-2P-Y-DC12 from Mouser. (I have relays on hand if you wanted to save the mouser order I could sell a PCB + relays)
Also you only need to populate as much as you are going to use on the board. IE if you were to only monitor 16 cells you could leave off the top five 3 pin connectors, as well as half the relays (Relay_1, R_Alarm3 and R_Alarm4) the two 3 pin connectors below R-Alarm3 and R_Alarm4, and the connectors for the top two Cell Logs.

I won't be selling half populated boards, I am ordering the parts to populate x amount of complete boards. The only exception is to provide a part that is backordered to a kit.
Last edited by rwaudio on Sun May 06, 2012 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby teklektik » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:38 am

rwaudio wrote:
teklektik wrote:Can you post the BOM for the board?

Of course!

Thanks! :)
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby Doctorbass » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:43 am

I received mine today!

Good Job Robin!

That board is perfect for monitoring our projects and being able to use the HVC or LVC function over up to 32s !!

Nice!
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:13 am

No problem, glad you like it!!

If you have any questions on hookup just let me know.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby pvorlicek » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:10 pm

PM Sent for purchase of 1.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:22 pm

All PM's replied, all orders packed up and ready to send out from the post office tomorrow.

I'm sure everyone who ordered raw PCB's know what they are doing but to simplify things please assemble in this order:

4x white cell log connector (attach to the cell log for proper spacing up from the board... this is important!!!), soldering from the top side will give a mechanically stronger connection.
6x relays
all green terminal blocks (attach the connectors to each other in groups 2x, 4x and 11x before inserting and soldering)
1x rj45 connector
4x 2 pin connector on the underside, or solder wires directly to the PCB

thanks,
Robin
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby pvorlicek » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:46 pm

Robin:

Received the board in good condition. Thanks. I'll begin playing with the board this weekend. I have one quick question for now:

I recall reading that the Cellog's draw power from only the first 6 cells (6 or 4, I can't remember) so that if you left it plugged in for a long time you would drain your cells unevenly. I also remember there was a re-work so that it would draw power evenly form all cells (required soldering a wire on the PC board). Is this still an issue if I use the Cellogs with your board?

Unfortunately, my fine-soldering skills are not that great.

I'll also post this question on the thread where you listed the board for sale since I think it may be of interest to others.

Thanks,

Preston
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:06 am

pvorlicek wrote:Robin:

Received the board in good condition. Thanks. I'll begin playing with the board this weekend. I have one quick question for now:

I recall reading that the Cellog's draw power from only the first 6 cells (6 or 4, I can't remember) so that if you left it plugged in for a long time you would drain your cells unevenly. I also remember there was a re-work so that it would draw power evenly form all cells (required soldering a wire on the PC board). Is this still an issue if I use the Cellogs with your board?

Unfortunately, my fine-soldering skills are not that great.

I'll also post this question on the thread where you listed the board for sale since I think it may be of interest to others.

Thanks,

Preston


That's a very good question, it may be less of a problem because of the ability to "turn off" the cell logs using the 12v input so they are only on as long as the vehicle/bike is on or charging , but it will still be an issue.

This is an image that was posted by a very reputable member on diyelectriccar while in the early talks of making a BMS out of Cell Log 8's. The modification may have originated here, sorry I can't give proper credit to the person behind this modification but it wasn't me.

Cell log mod.jpg
(89.89 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

cell log mod2.jpg
(84.08 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:04 pm

Lots of RAW pcb's left, but only 3 assembled boards.

I will be ordering parts to populate another batch in a week or two.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:44 pm

I ordered all the parts to populate the remaining boards, I'm almost finished soldering them so only assembled boards are available now.
This is the final batch for now, next time I design a PCB I may get more of these made but it will be awhile (read 6 months to a year).
3 of the boards are for my 944, along with one spare, the remaining 21 are up for grabs.

Price remains the same $80/pc, price break for 5+ and 10+

Shipping in Canada for a single board in a bubble envelope is $5, 2 or more send me your postal code and let me get you an accurate price.
Shipping to the USA is $6 for a single in an envelope and $7.50-10 for 2-3 in a box depending on location, send me your zip code and I can get an accurate price.
Faster options available upon request, I'll ship to almost anywhere in the world.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby Doctorbass » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:34 pm

That's a great device you are offering Robin!.. :wink:

I am really satisfied with it. I made it handheld.

Here is one of the use i do:

on my Zero motorcycle DS 2011: monitoring 14s 70Ah LiMn:

Image

Image

Image

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:25 am

Doctorbass wrote:That's a great device you are offering Robin!.. :wink:

I am really satisfied with it. I made it handheld.

Here is one of the use i do:

on my Zero motorcycle DS 2011: monitoring 14s 70Ah LiMn:

Image

Image

Image

Doc


Thanks Doc,

Very nice implementation of the board!!

I'm just in the process of figuring out how to mount mine, I don't have to worry about weather but I do have to keep the wiring organized and tidy to monitor 96S while keeping the displays easily viewable.
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby deVries » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:04 pm

rwaudio wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:That's a great device you are offering Robin!.. :wink:

I am really satisfied with it. I made it handheld.

Here is one of the use i do:

on my Zero motorcycle DS 2011: monitoring 14s 70Ah LiMn:

Image

Image

Image

Doc


Thanks Doc,

Very nice implementation of the board!!

I'm just in the process of figuring out how to mount mine, I don't have to worry about weather but I do have to keep the wiring organized and tidy to monitor 96S while keeping the displays easily viewable.


Hi Robin, did you decide how you will connect yours? Are you using any special type of plug-in connectors?

I received the breakout modules. These are great one-of-a-kind boards I recommend using.

Get one before these sellout. ;)

Thanks for offering these on ES. :D
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:00 am

deVries wrote:
Hi Robin, did you decide how you will connect yours? Are you using any special type of plug-in connectors?

I received the breakout modules. These are great one-of-a-kind boards I recommend using.

Get one before these sellout. ;)

Thanks for offering these on ES. :D


I've been getting close to installing my boards, basically I'll be installing them on top of the "hump" in my battery box above the transmission. Below is the basic layout of the battery box as it was being built, it has since been insulated with a resistive heater installed in the bottom.

Image

The two banks of batteries will go on either side and the charger will be mounted behind the hump. The charger is the EMW 10kW charger kit, and below is my build with custom enclosure.

Image

The charger has a built in NC loop connection, so I will connect that to the NC loop output of the 3 boards as follows:
Charger 5v Signal out, to board one alarm in, board one alarm out to board two alarm in, board two alarm out to board three alarm in, and finally board three alarm out to the Charger terminate input terminal.
Basically when all is well the 5v output from the charger is fed right back in and the charger keeps running. When the internal CC/CV program is in the CV stage and current drops below the C/20 current the 5v signal is turned off, this terminates the charging process because the input signal on the charger goes "low". This would also happen if there was an alarm in any cell log which would break the NC loop and tell the charger to terminate.

This is somewhat how the breakout module was designed, it's a simple and direct connection to my charger. I'm using the Soliton1 controller which has programmable inputs some of which can be used to cut the throttle, enter limp mode etc. This is the reason that I broke out the other half of the relay section at the bottom of the board, I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to wire up the Soliton1 or what I want it to do when there is an alarm. I may simply activate a warning light/buzzer or something I honestly haven't decided.

I will be using individually measured wires so that there is no rats nest of excess wiring running from the cells to the breakout modules, I will be using 18-20awg wire with ring terminals on the cell ends and insulated ferrules on the breakout module end. I will also be labelling every wire with the cell number at the cell and breakout module ends.

Image
Image

Hope that helps,
Robin
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Re: FS: Cell Log 8 Breakout Modules

Postby rwaudio » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:15 am

A couple of people have asked if it's possible to measure two different (isolated) battery systems using one Cell Log 8 Breakout Module, the answer is YES. However there are cases where the board needs to be modified slightly to make this work.

Below is the modification to allow measurement of two separate systems where the cells 1-16 and 17-32 are completely isolated from eachother. Care must be taken when soldering to the relay pad for the new wire though a solder bridge would be bad news.


Image


The other questions has been can I monitor my 12v battery along with the HV pack because I'm not using all of the Cell Log 8 inputs on the board. The answer is also YES... sometimes.

For example if you have a 48 cell pack you would require two Cell Log 8 Breakout modules, the first would have 4 Cell Logs and the 2nd would only have two. The "top" two or cells 17-32 would not be used on board two. Now it is possible to use the top section, Cells 24-28 to monitor a 4 cell LiFePO4 12v system battery without causing problems or connecting the 12v pack with the HV pack. The key here is that Cell Log section 17-24 is left empty!! (**Cell 24+ is used as cell 1 negative, cell 1 plus is 25+ etc..**)

Alarms from the 12v system battery also affect the NC loop and other alarms so that must be taken into consideration on the total system depending on how things are connected.

If you were using 56 cells then the third section 17-24 would also be used for HV monitoring and if you wanted to also monitor the 12v battery using cells 25-28 a small modification to the board would be required, much the same as the image above, just at a different place on the board. I can create an image with instructions if anyone wants to do this.

If using a 12v Lead acid battery the Cell Log will accept higher voltages on the first two terminals and could be implimented the same as a 4 cell LiFePO4 battery using terminals 24 and 25 instead of 24-28. I don't know how the alarms behave though and you are on your own if trying this.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES can you create this isolation within a cell log 8. IE if running 60 Cells, two boards with 1-32 on board one and 1-28 on board two. You can NOT monitor the 12v system battery using Cell inputs 29-32. This simply does not work and will fry something, if you are lucky it's just a Cell Log 8.

If you have specific questions about monitoring a battery system not mentioned feel free to ask. If anyone wants boards modified for a specific use at the time of purchase I'm happy to do it free of charge.
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