Advanced ADAPTTO controllers and compatible products

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ElectroRider   1 W

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ElectroRider » Apr 20 2014 6:27am

Allex wrote:Max-E@72v LiFePo4 with Crystalyte 5403.
0-50km/h in 2.2seconds, how it that for an advertiser Andrey :)

90kph is truly impressive using just 72v, that's the same speed I achieved using 100v, cromotor and an infineon controller, I really like how quietly the Adaptto controller drives the motor.

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andreym   100 W

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by andreym » Apr 20 2014 3:28pm

Falco wrote:I have sent 2 pms and a email
replied in PM yesterday.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by andreym » Apr 20 2014 3:44pm

Allex wrote:Max-E@72v LiFePo4 with Crystalyte 5403.
0-50km/h in 2.2seconds, how it that for an advertiser Andrey :)
Just Awesome, Alex! Thanks for the vid, and for all Crystalyte 5403 owners now we know correct pwr timing settings for best acceleration :D
although your video shows motor and controller temperature is not rising rapidly, this means your settings are close to optimal.
You have done a really great job finding this settings.
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Allex   1 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » Apr 20 2014 5:04pm

madin88 wrote:
Allex wrote:Not Yet AFAIK.
You can adjust the timing=more top speed.
With ovs 0 it goes around 80km/h with ovs 2 around 90 you can chnage your ovs up to 7 i think.
0-50 in 2sec. isn't that close to throw you off? lol
what was speed and acceleration with your previous (infineon?) controller?
Nah, think I need more phase amps so it could throw my skinny ass off :) But if I lean back a bit then probably the bike will make a loop!
Hm, I must do a similar video with my old controller. But probably to lazy to mount it back on...
Andrey, there is a lot of settings and firmwares to play around with. I wish I could dedicate my whole life to this little unit!

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Trilska » Apr 20 2014 5:13pm

Just one question.

Does this controler control pfase amps directly (and adjustable) or indirectly?

Asking sience i am on the lookout for a controler where i could limit pfase amps drasticaly and therefore avoid a mecanical tourque limiter.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » Apr 20 2014 6:18pm

Trilska: You control and change every single setting directly from the screen.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Rodney64 » Apr 20 2014 6:24pm

Alex can you lock the screen with a password to stop changes in settings.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » Apr 20 2014 6:28pm

Yep, doable.
You can also lock your wheel with a password(anti-theft) a.k.a kid, you are grounded :)

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Rodney64 » Apr 20 2014 6:32pm

I've ordered one of these controllers. Better start reading the manual.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » Apr 20 2014 7:05pm

The small one or Max? Will you use it on your phasor?

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Rodney64 » Apr 20 2014 7:28pm

I've ordered the small one. May use it on my commuter.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » Apr 21 2014 3:03am

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... O80CuyEuBg

here are some useful bits about what some of the adaptto settings mean, from the russian forum.

alot of this is not covered in the user manual.atleast not extensively.

and some more stuff here:

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... &sandbox=1

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Falco » Apr 21 2014 5:47am

Allex wrote:
madin88 wrote:
Allex wrote:Not Yet AFAIK.
You can adjust the timing=more top speed.
With ovs 0 it goes around 80km/h with ovs 2 around 90 you can chnage your ovs up to 7 i think.
0-50 in 2sec. isn't that close to throw you off? lol
what was speed and acceleration with your previous (infineon?) controller?
Nah, think I need more phase amps so it could throw my skinny ass off :) But if I lean back a bit then probably the bike will make a loop!
Hm, I must do a similar video with my old controller. But probably to lazy to mount it back on...
Andrey, there is a lot of settings and firmwares to play around with. I wish I could dedicate my whole life to this little unit!
Just wondering why you set the phase amps so high? Doesn't that puts a lot more stress on the mosfets and is only really an advantage at lower speeds where your battery current does not limit your phase currents?
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by GCinDC » Apr 21 2014 5:53am

ridethelightning wrote:http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... O80CuyEuBg

here are some useful bits about what some of the adaptto settings mean, from the russian forum.
sweet find!

could tidy up some more, but here's the translated text:

MINI-E, MAX-E - description of the settings, manuals, FAQ.

Basic Settings menu of the motor: controller setup -> advanced settings

Angle corr. - This setting compensates for the inaccuracy of the sensors hall. That is, the difference between the applied magnetic field of the stator and the testimony angle hall sensors. Also note that the hall sensors - three. And the setting - the average deviation of all three sensors from scratch. Deviation of each sensor individually identified and compensated automatically by the rotation of the motor.

Ind timing - Setting delay compensation between the signal hall sensor and the control signal of the controller. When rotating at high speed, the signal from the sensor lags, so adjustment is necessary this time. Accordingly, this time delay is the sum of the Hall sensors and filters in the circuit of the controller and data processor, the processing time of the controller.

PWR timing - setting for the dwell angle shift depending on the phase current. The greater the inductance of the motor windings, the stronger the current lags behind the phase control signal. Compensation current backlog given this setting.

angle corr2 and PWR timing2 (in the firmware since v1RC8b) - analogues of the above settings for reverse thrust mode (ie, active braking)

OVS timing - setting for the unwinding of the motor in the case when the battery voltage is not enough to achieve maximum speed. Works as follows: when the maximum fill almost PWM controller increases the lead angle, which enables additional speedup (and reducing the efficiency of the motor) if the speed is limited by the maximum motor speed, not the draft.

HallOffset, HallReverse, WireReverse - three settings that are responsible for the connection setup hall sensors relative phase conductors, as well as reverse the motor and sensors. These settings selected the right combination and direction of rotation when connected phases and lounges "on ugad."

Wire R - stator resistance at normal temperature (24 degrees)
Motor KV - KV motor. While firmware test in conditional parrots.
Wire R and Motor KV need for a new algorithm for calculating the phase current (based on the current speed, the control voltage and winding resistance, and not of the control voltage and current, as in the standard version). This algorithm is required to reverse the engine braking, and also improves the smoothness, and clarity of the phase current restrictions. It included the following settings:

Wire R PHC - the inclusion of a new algorithm for calculating the phase current. Allows you to calculate the current even at zero cycle of the PWM that is required for proper zero crossing at work reverse braking. Important: When this option is disabled, the motor KV will be automatically installed if untwist motor to medium speed and throw gas. Once this SETUP, auto-sensing motor KV is not happening.

PWM freq - frequency PWM mode charging and DC / DC. When working with a motor fixed frequency - 18 kHz.
ADDNZ - compensation hum of the motor, which occurs at low speeds due to the switching time of power switches controller. Recommended for 2-3 mini-e, 5-6 for max.e. Chosen experimentally. Security settings.

Termosensor and Motor Tsens - on and select the type of temperature sensor in the motor.
T 'limit - limit motor temperature. When the temperature is lower this limit to 20 degrees, the controller starts to limit the power dalneynem with increasing temperature. As temperatures rise, the power decreases linearly to zero when it reaches this limit.
Control method - the method of motor control. Sine - Sine (recommended). SQWAV - The same sine, but disconnecting the third phase. Emulation control block. Not recommended because does not work very well. SLESS - sensorless mode. Recommended only as an emergency in case of failure of the Hall sensors, as at low speed and at high power does not work well, it is not a mistake.

Section Traction settings. By the logic of it configures everything associated with traction motor.

Throttle mode - TORQ (default) or SPD. In the TORQ regulated by turning the accelerator rod motor. In the SPD the velocity and thrust in a small range (ie setting close to the Chinese controllers).
Thr Cruise - Vklichenie or disabling the ability to go into cruise mode.
Cruise control mode allows you to maintain a constant speed without keeping the accelerator.
If this option is disabled, the cruise control can not be activated. If this option is enabled, the cruise control can be activated in two ways:
a) rapid triple pressing the accelerator
b) while keeping the accelerator position nonzero display press "up", then release the accelerator.
Turns off the cruise control or by pressing the brake lever or pressing the throttle. To activate the cruise control is necessary to get up to speed not less than 8-10 km / h With active cruise control can increase or decrease the speed supported by pressing the display up and down.

PWM rise lim - regulates the maximum speed of the motor (or the maximum rate of increase in cycle of the PWM) and to some extent the rate of increase traction under hard pressed on the accelerator.The larger the number, the faster. For extreme driving recommended 80 (maximum).

SPD smooth - smooth response regulates speed limits. When the velocity approaches the maximum, the controller starts to limit the power. The size of this window is governed by this setting speeds. The higher the number, the sharper the speed limit is triggered. The less - the less accurate constant speed, but maintaining speed is smoother and softer.

TRK - Enabling Traction. When enabled, the controller controls the acceleration of the motor. Usually if the wheel ran over a piece of ice, it starts to sharply accelerate. At this point, Traction works for some time and reset the engine thrust.
TRK dV - setting the acceleration at which triggered Traction.
TRK dA - sharpness (term for acceleration acceleration). Allows you to fine-tune the time of operation and at the same time allows to achieve high thrust (acceleration) without positives. That is, if the wheel has broken, the acceleration increases sharply, leading to fire. And if you gently press the accelerator, the acceleration will increase smoothly without positives.
PWR rise - how quickly restored after tripping Traction Rod engine.

LS enable - current limit at low speeds. Helps when using motors BMC / MAC, which with a sharp start misbehaving.
LS current - starting current limitation
LS start - speed above which the current starts to increase.
HS start - speed above which the current reaches maksimalnono (that which is specified in the profile) values. That is, the current gradually increases, from the speed LS start and ending speed HS start.

2WD enable - Enable / disable all-wheel drive mode. In a peripheral bus, the main controller may be connected to an additional controller. Additional controller is controlled by the main controller, if this option is enabled.
Slabe SL - When this speed is reached additional controller is disabled. It is recommended to establish if a second motor helps only at low speeds and at high speeds it spins uselessly.
BMC halls fix - option to help overcome the problem of starting motors in BMC / MAC by shifting the timing advance when you start back. At the start slightly reduced efficiency, but start going better.
ACC off on BRK - with this option enabled, if holding the accelerator release the brake, the engine will not start spinning. Motor requires to unwind completely and release the accelerator and brake. Useful as newcomers to the protection of powerful configurations.
Backwd SPD - the maximum reverse speed. Done for security purposes.
Anti thief - If enabled, the wheel will be locked when the controller is locked with a password.
Anti th. PHC - Maximum phase motor current mode protivougonki. Allows you to set the maximum force of the motor.

Section Regen settings
enable - there are three possible settings: on - braking motorm inclusive; off - inhibition of motor off, and when you press the brake motor is not switched off. m-off - when you brake the motor cuts.
ActiveMode - when braking the motor is turned in reverse thrust mode, with the possible inhibition rate to zero. Required for operation mode setting KV motor and motor winding resistance. These parameters are set in the automatic.
ForcedActive - with this option disabled, braking first performed classical regeneration (ie shorting all phases of the motor and the subsequent drain accumulated in the windings of the current in the battery), and when the current starts to fall of the regime, braking automatically switches to reverse thrust. This will shift-clicking is heard. If this option is enabled, the inhibition always occurs in reverse thrust. At high speed reverse thrust requires the right timing settings complementary angles.
Rated Current - current limit regeneration. Recommended to install according to your battery charging current.
Inversion - Inversion of the brake. In case you handle the brake works in reverse.
Smooth - useful to include, if the signal regeneration is removed from the button, and not from the sensor sensitive to stress. With this option enabled the braking force will gradually increase, and when released - decrease smoothly.
PWM limit - the minimum limit cycle of the PWM when using classical brakes. The larger the value, the lower speed to be slow down, but the efficiency will be reduced, and the heat of the motor - to rise.Recommended to install about 95%.
SPD sensor - allows you to connect to the display input speed sensor brake lever from the bike computer. Beneficial for motors with freewheel where retardation is meaningless, and external probe sorosti needs.
Torque rise - option for braking thrust reversers. Allows you to adjust the smoothness of response inhibition at low speed. The higher the number, the stronger the brake at low speed. 80-150 is recommended.
Min speed - minimum braking speed reverse. In tenths of km / h By default, 0.2 km / h

Misc Settings

1. Lock controller.
When a password is "master password", then triple pressing "back" from the main screen controller switches to lockout.
When this option enabled Anti thief, the controller will also resist rotation of the motor in the lock mode.
Accordingly, the lock mode can be removed only by password (a combination of arrows), at the end of the input by pressing the "back" button.
Controller when power remembers the lock and when the power resumes it.
You can set a password in the section menu controller setup. Password combination is typed arrows LYUOM combination and ends with the "back".

2. Cruise control
When this option is cruise control cruise option available (ie, maintaining speed).
To activate the cruise need to accelerate to a speed of 10 km / h (or more), then release the throttle control and briefly three times to press the throttle control.
Also, instead of a triple clicking, you can hold the throttle stick, press "up" on the display.
Wherein the controller will remember the current speed and will support it. To exit from the cruise you have to press the throttle lever or brake pedal.
Also in cruise mode buttons "up" and "down" to increase or decrease the speed supported.

3. Quick Menu
Quick Menu is designed for quick on-off various options as back up, charge mode, options cruise, Traction Control, etc.
To activate the setting in the "interface" to enable the option "quick menu". In the quick menu setup, you can change the functions assigned to the quick buttons: 3 functions on the display and 4 function for the throttle.
Calling the Quick Menu from the display - on the "down" from the main screen. If you want to get into the setup menu, press the "down" twice.

Motor diagnostics, or how to make turn the engine if the autodetect feature is not working.

1. Connect the hall sensors and phase wires in an arbitrary manner.
2. Verify that the hall sensors work
To do this:
a) Navigate to the health monitor (from the main screen to the left)
b) slowly roll the wheel forward and watch the digit after the inscription "Halls: xxx, Hy". Figure "y" should vary according to the scheme or 1-2-3-4-5-6-1-2-3-4-5-6 - ... or 6-5-4-3-2-1-6 -5-4-3-2-1 - ... and the three digit "x" represent the logic levels of each of the three hall sensors.
If, during the motor rotation numbers "y" sometimes takes a value of "0" or a different sequence of numbers, the hall sensors are not working correctly, or motor sensors have an angle of 60 degrees. (If 60 degrees - then you need to flip one of the hall sensors in the motor, not all, but a specific sensor)

3. Choose the direction of rotation of the motor.
If you rotate the motor forward, the menu "health monitor" figures after saying "Halls:" should increase. If the numbers are falling, then change the setting "Hall reverse" or "Direction".

4. Setting phase combination
Setup consists of setting the direction control signal and a phase shift control signal.
Direction control signal set using "wire reverse".
To determine the correct direction to try a little gas. If the wheel does not rotate in two ways motor behavior:
a) at the time the motor current is positioned at a specific location (or the motor starts to twitch, trying to stay in the same position) and if you try to wiggle the motor rotor from an established position, the spring effect will be felt when you try to move it in one or the other side. If the effort to twist the motor, it will be felt explicit intervals where the rotor tend to return. If the engine behaves, you need to change the wire reverse
b) at the time the motor current or rotates, or inhibited, but an attempt to shake the motor is not felt salient intervals, trying to get back to the rotor and the effect of the spring. So setting "wire reverse" faithful and need to change the parameter "hall offset".

After selection wire reverse pick hall offset (only 6 combinations), at which the motor rotates forward best.

At the selection of combinations is completed.
The next step is to configure the advancing angles.
This three parameters: "angle corr", "ind timing" and "pwr timing".
To adjust the angle corr set to a value close to zero, "ind timing" in a value close to 400-500, "pwr timing" in the value of 0.3-0.5, "OVS" to 0.

First you need to choose the angle corr.
To do this, unscrew the motor slightly (to about the speed of 10-15 km / h), and changing the setting angle corr as a minus and a plus, watch the operation of the motor. You will see that the shift in this setting strongly negative and strongly in plus the motor starts to rotate's slower and louder. Need to pick up about the middle of the interval value where the motor rotates best.

Next you need to configure ind timing.
To do this, unscrew the motor up to cruising speed. If you do not know what the cruising speed of the motor, then look at zhkran "debug", which can be papast from the main screen by pressing a combination of "left-up-up." In the line "OA: xxxx DA = xxxx Axxxx" see "Axxxx". Look at the first digit after the letter "A" and gradually unroll motor. She will begin to change in the following order: 8,9, A, B, C, D, E, F. Accordingly, F corresponds to the maximum turnover, and 8 - to a minimum. You need a speed corresponding to the letter "D".
After promotion to the cruising speed of the motor start changing parameter "ind timing". Select a value where dstigaetsya cruising speed with minimal effort (ie, the minimum turning the knob accelerator).If the wheel does not spin or vice versa spins very quickly, revving is not worth much. Keep current consumption at no more than 7.5 amps. Above a certain value settings and gently pressing the throttle motor begins to unwind and noisy. This should be avoided, reducing gas. Value generally must be slightly less than the threshold at which the engine begins to unwind and noisy.

Next you need to configure the PWR timing and OVS.
PWR timing affects cravings (and efficiency) of the motor under load. Changing PWR timing (usually missing one of the values: 0.17 for high-speed motors, 0.3-0.5 and 0.7-1.2 for normal to slow motors), achieve maximum thrust when you sneakers on the floor at cruising speed.

OVS can raise the maximum speed by reducing the efficiency of the motor. Optimal values ​​are usually 2-4. Selected an experimental way.

Keep in mind that if you strongly vykruchennyh settings "OVS" and "ind timing", large operating currents and no speed limit if strongly gazanut, the motor will start uncontrollably strongly raskruivatsya and can even burn the controller. Avoid indexer therefore recommend that you install these situations to set up profiles maximum speed limit around 20% more than the actual maximum speed of your machine on the road.
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
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knighty   10 kW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by knighty » Apr 21 2014 5:56am

anyone have a link to there fancy throttle ?

I've talking via email for 2 controllers, 2 charge thingies and 2 x bms

but just remembered they do the nice throttle too...

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » Apr 21 2014 6:24am

@knighty, id love to see this fancy throttle too! this is the first iv heard of it, and i havnt seen anything on their website.

- just love some of the stuff that comes from google translate. gets me laughing sometimes.

still get the jist of most of it ok.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by knighty » Apr 21 2014 6:33am

I'll ask in the email I've got going with them, just thought it might be quicker/easier if I could find out on my own

maybe the throttle isn't ready yet ?


from what I read... twist one way for throttle, twist the other way for regen

and as you twist it to accelerate, it accelerates normally, then there's a small bump/resistance etc... when you twist past that you get full power... sounds pretty awesome tbh :-)

it would be great to have nice/safe power, but then still have the option for full power when you need it... like when a car is about to crush you etc..

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by ridethelightning » Apr 21 2014 6:49am

that does sound really cool!

please update details.

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Rix » Apr 21 2014 11:12am

Subscribed.

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by madin88 » Apr 21 2014 11:31am

Allex wrote:Yep, doable.
You can also lock your wheel with a password(anti-theft) a.k.a kid, you are grounded :)
are you sure?
i know there is a way to lock the controller and the wheel, but is it really possible to lock only the setting menu (advanced, calibration, amps etc) for example if the bike gets in the hand of a clueless person?

lol i ask you and i have the controller my own, but currently the bike is not at my place :) will play with these settings tomorrow.
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » Apr 21 2014 12:06pm

Haha, pretty sure I read about this function in the russian forum :)

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » Apr 21 2014 12:13pm

Just wondering why you set the phase amps so high? Doesn't that puts a lot more stress on the mosfets and is only really an advantage at lower speeds where your battery current does not limit your phase currents?
Generally speaking you need more phase amps on this controller compared to the regular infineon . The FETS were about +20°C after the speed run. Ambient °C +10 so this controller could prolly take >600phase amps.
If I lower phases the acceleration at WOT feels a lot slower from 50-60km/h

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by madin88 » Apr 21 2014 1:50pm

Allex wrote: If I lower phases the acceleration at WOT feels a lot slower from 50-60km/h
do you mean acceleration from 50-60 , or from zero to 50-60? this is a difference :)
at 50-60 kmh phase amps will be not much more than battery amps.

i mean we can test this easy:

if batt amps or kW climb instantly to the value set at WOT from a dead stop, phase amps are set high enough (battery amps will always limit).
if it takes some time until have full batt amps, phase amps are set to low (phase amps will limit)

in most cases a 1:2,5 setting will work optimal
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
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/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by arcticfly » Apr 22 2014 3:34am

Subscribed

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: The most advanced Adaptto Mini-E Controller + BMS

Post by Allex » Apr 22 2014 5:15am

madin88 wrote:
Allex wrote: If I lower phases the acceleration at WOT feels a lot slower from 50-60km/h
do you mean acceleration from 50-60 , or from zero to 50-60? this is a difference :)
at 50-60 kmh phase amps will be not much more than battery amps.

i mean we can test this easy:

if batt amps or kW climb instantly to the value set at WOT from a dead stop, phase amps are set high enough (battery amps will always limit).
if it takes some time until have full batt amps, phase amps are set to low (phase amps will limit)

in most cases a 1:2,5 setting will work optimal
Sorry, meant acceleration from 50 to 80
Can now confirm when going 50km/h and twist the throttle to maximum, controller sucks 100Amps instantly until reached top speed.

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