Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

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cycborg   1 kW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by cycborg » Sep 08 2019 8:08am

john61ct wrote:
Sep 02 2019 5:58pm
21S = 72-91V depending on chemistry

So no, not without a DC-DC boost converter or specialist charger in between.
john61ct wrote:
Sep 08 2019 1:53am
3.86Vpc is **way** too low

Perfect for 13S though
I think you're talking about charging directly from a PSU. The discussion is about charging through the controller.
Cheburator wrote:
Sep 08 2019 1:08am
is it possible to charge 14s battery with 54v psu ?
The PSU voltage needs to be well below the battery's discharge voltage. For 14s, you'd be safe with a 24 V PSU. 36 V would be pushing it. 54 V is much too high. Even if you could adjust it down to, say, 48 V, this would not work if your battery were discharged below 48/14 = 3.4 V per cell.
ElectricGod wrote:
Sep 07 2019 1:03am
A lot of people don't know how this works...using a large capacitive bank and an inductor to bump the voltage up to the pack voltage.

I've never used this before, just read about it.
What I understand is the capacitors in the controller and the motor windings are what is used to boost the voltage to pack voltage.

Since you've worked this out, please explain how it works.
There's really not much more to it than what you've described, and it's unfortunate that more controllers don't implement this. In fact, if a controller does regen, it's basically already doing it. The difference is that in regen the input voltage is the back EMF induced by the motor's motion, whereas in charging the voltage comes from a DC supply. In fact, this is even easier since the controller doesn't have to do commutation switching.

In normal operation (i.e. forward motion, forward torque), a controller is basically a variable-output buck converter with commutation thrown in for the motor phases. In regen this is reversed and the controller becomes a boost converter with commutation. In charging mode, it's a boost converter without the need for commutation (the charging is done through only one of the motor phases).

(For the motor control specialists - yes, I know what this controller is doing is better described as SVM rather than commutation - see my avatar! I just don't think it's necessary to go down that rabbit hole to have a general sense of how this works.)

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by cheapcookie » Sep 09 2019 12:04am

thanks alot cycborg for the explanation

mtwill54   1 µW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by mtwill54 » Sep 10 2019 8:34pm

Hi VasiliSk,
Is the 24f kit for sale yet? I'm interested in purchasing the kit for a Sur Ron. Is the kit preconfigured or do I need to configure it for the Sur Ron? Also, would you recommend the 24f over the 12f for the Sur Ron?

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Turbomatic » Sep 10 2019 10:12pm

mtwill54 wrote:
Sep 10 2019 8:34pm
Hi VasiliSk,
Is the 24f kit for sale yet? I'm interested in purchasing the kit for a Sur Ron. Is the kit preconfigured or do I need to configure it for the Sur Ron? Also, would you recommend the 24f over the 12f for the Sur Ron?
Hi. We recommended 24F. You need to configure it by yourself via "autodetect" function for example.
You need make a pre-order on 24F on http://nucular.tech/, but we have a queue for 4-6 months in advance (for 24F controllers).

You have two ways for replacing Sur-Ron controller:
1) you can install our controller on the back of the original Sur-Ron case, but in this case, the cooling will be a little worse. For replacing the regular Sur-Ron controller to Nucular controller we can send you Plug & Play connectors with harness (kickstand, fall sensor, throttle and key), $15 kit for one controller in "Accessories" on website.

2) you can send us cases from Sur-Ron and we will install our controller board there, replacing is expensive (about $100) since it needs some CNC work and a bit different PCB assembly.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Turbomatic » Sep 10 2019 10:15pm

Hi all! Important message! :flame:

First of all, thank you for your patience! We are not always possible to guarantee the waiting time for controllers and some customers had to wait up to 8 months or more. :(

The constant queue, the lack of controllers in stock and small production batches in beta test mode do not yet make it possible to simply pay money and immediately get the device. Therefore, we decided to direct our efforts in expanding production, which will lead to a reduction in the waiting time and in the future, to the availability of controllers in stock.

In this regard, we change the price of the controllers:
6F - $150
12F - $285
24F - $465
LCD - $85

The price of the “controller + LCD” kit is obtained by adding up the prices, respectively.

Changes will affect everyone who is already in the queue. Hope for understanding!

In addition, on the http://nucular.tech became available the pre-order on BMS (16S and 24S).

We don`t know the time production and price yet, BMS 16S is on prototyping, BMS 24S is in the queue for prototyping. But, to understand the approximate volumes of future batches, we are already starting to take pre-orders.

The main functionality:
Temperature control
Integration into the CAN bus for smoothly controller power limit
Short circuit protection
Firmware update via the on-board computer
Number of cells from 5S

Thanks for attention! And have a nice day!

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PITMIX   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Sep 11 2019 9:30am

there you go ! I placed a pre-order for a BMS 24s. 8)
Have you published a list of order numbers in real time? it would be nice to wait.
For example :
if I have the number 550c and the current deliveries are at number 12c, I know there is still 538 command before mine. :shock: :lol:
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Feist92 » Sep 14 2019 8:14pm

I understand having to put the prices up but I dont agree with putting them up for the people who have pre-ordered.
Frankly having told someone theyre getting something for one price then after a couple months saying that you have to pay more is a really good way to get in peoples bad books.
I would strongly recommend filling the orders you committed to at the original price but increase the cost for future orders.

Turbomatic   1 mW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Turbomatic » Sep 14 2019 9:16pm

PITMIX wrote:
Sep 11 2019 9:30am
there you go ! I placed a pre-order for a BMS 24s. 8)
Have you published a list of order numbers in real time? it would be nice to wait.
For example :
if I have the number 550c and the current deliveries are at number 12c, I know there is still 538 command before mine. :shock: :lol:
Hi!
Unfortunately no, only on request we can say an approximate place in the queue. We produce in batches, and a lot of time passes between one and the second batch.

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PITMIX   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Sep 15 2019 2:15am

:thumb: Thank you for your reply. Anyway the order numbers do not correspond to the place in the queue since now you made different products so it also depends on the product ordered. Congratulations on your small business the new owners of 12F are all delighted with their acquisition. :wink:
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 16 2019 11:24am

Feist92 wrote:
Sep 14 2019 8:14pm
I understand having to put the prices up but I dont agree with putting them up for the people who have pre-ordered.
Frankly having told someone theyre getting something for one price then after a couple months saying that you have to pay more is a really good way to get in peoples bad books.
I would strongly recommend filling the orders you committed to at the original price but increase the cost for future orders.
I only have one question.
Did the person already pay at the old price?
Then that price should be honored.
For everybody else that is saying "I want XYZ", they haven't really committed to anything and neither has Nucular. In that case price is not set IMHO.

Also, if you go look at other 12 and 24 fet FOC controllers, they cost a good bit more and are less powerful. You are still getting a good deal here.
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PITMIX   100 W

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Sep 16 2019 11:34am

Pre-orders are free and the price has been adjusted. Here we are talking about a product that has just come into being. I retain the satisfaction of those who received their controllers and the reactivity of Vasili and his colleagues to answer our questions. This is priceless. Go compare with ASI and ERT to laugh.
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by devo1223 » Sep 16 2019 12:53pm

PITMIX wrote:
Sep 16 2019 11:34am
the reactivity of Vasili and his colleagues to answer our questions. This is priceless. Go compare with ASI and ERT to laugh.
I'm really happy with the performance of my 12F. But the combination of performance and your quick responses to all my questions is the reason I'll probably buy another..
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Sep 16 2019 6:08pm

Sorry did not parse the whole thread for this.

If battery is only "52V" 14S, but a big Ah capacity pack, say can put out 120+A for 15+ minutes,

what sort of phase amps could this controller put out?

And then, what quality motors (of any category) are recommended to match, make use of that power level, say pushing a heavy rig up big hills at 12-15mph?

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Sep 17 2019 12:10am

On the first page you have the specifications. Phase amps for 6F= 120A, 12F= 250A, 24F= 500A

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Sep 17 2019 2:16am

You may need either 12F or 24F depending on gear ratio, i would recommend to do some mid drive on qs maybe, if you set gears right it will be able to work endlessly. Need to know this 15 min power in W, to say what to choose.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Sep 17 2019 2:45am

With a microcar of 400kg a mid drive Qs motor 3kW and a Chinese controller 100A powered in 20 s, I can roll at 45km / h with a reduction of 8 engine revolutions for 1 wheel revolution. I chose the 24F. To climb a slope at 15mph you need a reduction of 12 to 15 engine revolutions for 1 wheel revolution.
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Sep 17 2019 1:03pm

VasiliSk wrote:You may need either 12F or 24F depending on gear ratio, i would recommend to do some mid drive on qs maybe, if you set gears right it will be able to work endlessly. Need to know this 15 min power in W, to say what to choose.
I am hoping to use DD hub motors low kV windings only, no gearing. Speed is not important, only torque for

heavy tandem/cargo bike 26inch wheel, 3inch tire or fatbike if possible for gravel / dirt roads

150kg minimum gross weight, in steep hills, climbing big mountains at 20-25kmh

but up to 250kg fully loaded in flat areas

km/kW energy efficiency should be optimized for 35kmh or less on flat smooth roads


Prefer battery voltage kept low, only "52V" 14S,

so 120A is 6kW for 15+ minutes

> what quality motors are recommended to match, make use of that power level, say pushing a heavy rig up big hills at 12-15mph?

Also, is there a problem using the 500A 24F for future upgradability, even though current motor only needs 250A 12F ?


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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Cowardlyduck » Sep 20 2019 6:02pm

Hi guy's,

I got a Nucular with my LMX64 and so far it's looking like a good controller. After using a number of Adaptto controllers over the last 5 years and them now no longer being available I was wondering if there would be another similarly advanced controller...well I have my answer...hell yes. This Nucular is a whole level deeper than the Adaptto ever was!
I've got a lot of learning ahead of me that's for sure. :D

Now for my first issue. I managed to destroy the throttle that came with my LMX64 which was a standard hall effect twist throttle with ~1-4.5V output. I have a replacement thumb throttle I would like to use, but the voltage is backwards going from 4.5-1V when the throttle is pushed.

Is there a setting in the Nucular that allows me to use a 'backwards' hall effect throttle?

Cheers
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Sep 21 2019 1:50am

For safety this option was disabled :P
Is it also hall throttle?

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Cowardlyduck » Sep 21 2019 3:33am

VasiliSk wrote:
Sep 21 2019 1:50am
For safety this option was disabled :P
Is it also hall throttle?
Thanks for the response.
Yes it is a hall throttle, and I know it's possible to reverse the sensor or swap in a new one, but if the controller can operate with a reverse mode that would be easier.

Is it possible to re-enable the feature?

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Sep 21 2019 3:07pm

How is the progress of the 24f controller?

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 22 2019 1:00am

How does one use regen braking?

I want to start using a second throttle for variable regen.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Cowardlyduck » Sep 22 2019 4:31am

Well today I just went ahead and pulled apart my new throttle. I reversed the magnet and now it works with ~1-4.5V like a normal throttle.

I still think it would be a good idea to be able to have a setting in the controller to do this, but I do understand the safety side of it.

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Sep 22 2019 6:07am

Cowardlyduck need to think about it

ElectricGod well.. just connect and use it. same as usual throttle but brake

24F is running good so far. Have a one guy trying to fry up controller with 273 motor. Got 20kW input. Im currently polishing new SW version and will start shipping 24F worldwide.
Also controller priorities changed, i've ordered another 24F batch, 6F delayed due to schematic rework, 12F maybe sooner, depends on demand.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Sep 22 2019 7:15am

:bigthumb: Hihihi :D I love your way of testing the 24F, I would like to see it on video.
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

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