Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

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Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by teslanv » Apr 10, 2017 7:37 pm


Sine Wave Xie Chang Controller Specifications.pdf
(1.56 MiB) Downloaded 106 times
Hi All.

I have a few of the newer Sine Wave Xie Chang controllers available. The boards are clones of the KH6/infineon boards, and perform similarly with respect to power output and efficiency.

These units pack quite a punch, and are generally best used with Larger DD Hub motors, like the Leaf, the MXUS 3K-Turbo, Cromotors and QS motors.

I have three versions available:

6 MOSFET IRFB3077 ($100) - Which I rate at 60V nominal and 30A Max. You can run a Maximum of 75V to it, but that doesn't leave any headroom for regen braking, so I generally advise one not go higher than 16S (60V Nominal).

12 MOSFET Toshiba ($150) - Which I rate at 100V nominal and 60A Max. You can run a Maximum of 120V to it, but that doesn't leave any headroom for regen braking, so I generally advise one not go higher than 20S (72V Nominal).

18 MOSFET Toshiba ($200) - Which I rate at 100V Nominal and 100A Max. You can run a maximum of 120V to it, but that doesn't leave any headroom for regen braking, so I generally advise one not go higher than 20S (72V Nominal) if you want to utilize Regenerative braking.

Purchase Link: https://westcoastelectrics.com/product- ... ntrollers/

They operate as sine wave, and DD hub motors run nearly silently with these controllers.

They also have flux weakening, and up to 30% overspeed capability.

They are programmable but the current values tend to be off a bit, due to a factory-installed shunt mod. Best to set the current low (About 60% of desired battery current) and work higher from there.

I have the manufacturer beef up the traces with solid copper bar, and this gives the controllers a significant improvement in current handling.

Other standard features on these controllers:

CA V3 Output included (6-PIN JST-SM) and all connectors are compatible with the CA V3 (Matching ebrake and throttle connectors as a CA V3)
USB Programming header output to a 5-pin JST_SM connector.
3-speed input (Low/Medium/high) - Programming allows for 3 current maximums as well as 3 speed maximums, based on the three-speed switch)
Actual Shunt resistance measured for each individual unit and noted on the case, for accurate CA set-up.

Demo Video of the 12x3077 controller in action:

12FET-outside.jpg
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18FET-outside.jpg
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Beefy.jpg
Beefy.jpg (119.38 KiB) Viewed 2339 times
Connectors.jpg
Connectors.jpg (98.38 KiB) Viewed 2339 times
12FET-inside.jpg
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12FET-3077.jpg
12FET-3077.jpg (108.43 KiB) Viewed 2339 times
Wuxing Half-Throttle.jpg
Wuxing Half-Throttle.jpg (69.88 KiB) Viewed 2339 times
Throttle Output.jpg
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 12x3077 ($120) & 18x4110 ($150)

Post by camerons98 » May 13, 2017 7:46 pm

Where can I buy one of these?

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Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET/24FET

Post by teslanv » May 14, 2017 10:26 am

camerons98 wrote:Where can I buy one of these?
I have a buddy in the UK who has these, also. I gave him a heads up.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 12x3077 ($120) & 18x4110 ($150)

Post by jerome_speedy » Jul 24, 2017 8:49 am

Hi,
Do you plan to sell small 6 FET Sine wave controllers ? Those 12F and 18F are much too bulky for my application (a simple electric bike)

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Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET/24FET

Post by teslanv » Jul 24, 2017 7:29 pm

jerome_speedy wrote:Hi,
Do you plan to sell small 6 FET Sine wave controllers ? Those 12F and 18F are much too bulky for my application (a simple electric bike)
Yes.
https://www.westcoastelectrics.com/prod ... er-60v30a/
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET/24FET

Post by jerome_speedy » Jul 25, 2017 12:46 am

I'm not located in North America, and I could not complete the order...
Tell me if I can still buy the controller from you, thanks !

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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET/24FET

Post by teslanv » Jul 25, 2017 9:40 pm

jerome_speedy wrote:I'm not located in North America, and I could not complete the order...
Tell me if I can still buy the controller from you, thanks !
I limit sales to North America.
I build custom ebikes.
http://www.westcoastelectrics.com
West Coast Electric Cycles
Bellevue, WA
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET/24FET

Post by teslanv » Dec 10, 2017 9:33 am

Fresh Batch of 18FET controllers. Now with Toshiba MOSFETs, up to 120V Max Battery and 90A Peak Current.
TK72E12N1_datasheet_en_20140630.pdf
(247.83 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
18FET Toshiba.jpg
And a tutorial on programming with XPD:



I am selling these updated 18FET controllers for the same shipped price of $200 (Continental USA) as the previous irfb4110 controllers.

More power. Same price. PM me for purchase details.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET/24FET

Post by bionicdan » Dec 11, 2017 9:38 am

Im also in the uk and interested in the 100a one just posted if you could help hook me up id be grateful. Thanks
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by MileHighGuy » Dec 28, 2017 7:29 am

Is there any warranty on these controllers?

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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by teslanv » Dec 28, 2017 7:44 pm

MileHighGuy wrote:
Dec 28, 2017 7:29 am
Is there any warranty on these controllers?
1 year, provided you don't program it beyond the recommended current values.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by mr.electric » Dec 29, 2017 1:30 am

Really interesting. Not a bad price point considering some of the other options.

Are these simulated sine wave controllers (typical of ebike looking controllers coming out of China)?

Or are they true FOV Sine Wave controllers?

Any chance of getting the size down?
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by teslanv » Dec 29, 2017 3:47 pm

These are a simulated sine wave but very well done. DD hub motors run virtually silent and the power density is really impressive for their size. About the only controllers more power dense are the Adaptto, or the phase runner, considering it's miniscule size.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by bionicdan » Dec 30, 2017 2:07 pm

I assumed it would be simulated sine but its absolutely silent eerily so. I havnt properly tested it but im getting less heat, more range and twice the thrust of my buzzy em3ev 60a one.

I can literally fly across pebbles at almost 40mph with no bogging down. It wheelies at anything other than top speed. Very pleased
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 10, 2018 8:40 pm

Gotta love the blatant false advertising! Who reads the fine print? West coast REALLY needs to fix their waaaaay over the top advertising!

6kw on a 12 fet controller...uh...yeah...not going to happen.
10kw on an 18 fet...same.

Those are flat out maximums with zero room for anything to go wrong.

OK...if you go with TO-247 mosfets, but in anything in TO-220...no NOT with any mosfet that exists today and certainly not with the TK72E12N1!!!

With the AOT290 which is a 2X higher wattage mosfet, I run the 12 fet controller at 4kw continuous. The 18 fet on the same mosfet at 6kw continuous. Those are realistic specs! 6 and 10Kw....hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...what nonsense! Good thing you don't carry the 24 fet, 150 volt version...that would be a 50kw controller right?
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by teslanv » Jan 10, 2018 11:30 pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 8:40 pm
Gotta love the blatant false advertising! Who reads the fine print? West coast REALLY needs to fix their waaaaay over the top advertising!

6kw on a 12 fet controller...uh...yeah...not going to happen.
10kw on an 18 fet...same.

Those are flat out maximums with zero room for anything to go wrong.

OK...if you go with TO-247 mosfets, but in anything in TO-220...no NOT with any mosfet that exists today and certainly not with the TK72E12N1!!!

With the AOT290 which is a 2X higher wattage mosfet, I run the 12 fet controller at 4kw continuous. The 18 fet on the same mosfet at 6kw continuous. Those are realistic specs! 6 and 10Kw....hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...what nonsense! Good thing you don't carry the 24 fet, 150 volt version...that would be a 50kw controller right?
Yes, those current ratings are maximums. I note them as such. And I race them at those power levels without issue. Perhaps you would like to buy one for analysis?
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 11, 2018 12:39 pm

teslanv wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 11:30 pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 8:40 pm
Gotta love the blatant false advertising! Who reads the fine print? West coast REALLY needs to fix their waaaaay over the top advertising!

6kw on a 12 fet controller...uh...yeah...not going to happen.
10kw on an 18 fet...same.

Those are flat out maximums with zero room for anything to go wrong.

OK...if you go with TO-247 mosfets, but in anything in TO-220...no NOT with any mosfet that exists today and certainly not with the TK72E12N1!!!

With the AOT290 which is a 2X higher wattage mosfet, I run the 12 fet controller at 4kw continuous. The 18 fet on the same mosfet at 6kw continuous. Those are realistic specs! 6 and 10Kw....hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...what nonsense! Good thing you don't carry the 24 fet, 150 volt version...that would be a 50kw controller right?
Yes, those current ratings are maximums. I note them as such. And I race them at those power levels without issue. Perhaps you would like to buy one and prove me wrong?
I already have 3 of the 12 fet, an 18 fet and a 24 fet of this exact design. I'm about to buy another 18 fet and upgrade it with the best of the best of the mosfets I can find. By chance, do you have the new 18 fet version that supports sensorless and has copper rails on top of the board? If you have that, I might just send you some money for one! My current 18 fet is the older style.

For any of these controllers, I replace the phase and battery wires with whatever is the largest I can cram in the holes. I pull the factory shunts and replace them with larger precision .005 ohm shunts. 4 in parallel gets me to .00125 ohms which is just above the 1 milli ohm limit for the MCU's current sensing circuit. I replace the mosfets with AOT290's and add a secondary heat spreader inside the shell. I also push the mosfets all the way down to the wide section on their legs into the board. I want to minimize the 75 amp leg limit as much as possible and the heat problems that result. I feel comfortable running at 4kw continuous on a 12 fet or 6kw on an 18 fet after those changes.

I too want performance out of a small package, but I'm also not delusional about reliability and longevity. Running a controller at it's maximum limits is a recipe for blown mosfets. I seriously doubt you run a 12 fet at 6kw for long without killing it. With the best mosfets I can test, I'm still skeptical of more than 4500 watts continuous on a 12 fet. I destroyed my second 12 fet doing this sort of over the top, run at the ragged edge of the limits testing. It didn't last long.

Can I run the 2 liter engine in my car at 500 bhp? Sure I can. That's just a few engine upgrades and a retune. Will it last 50,000 miles? Ummm...heck no! You're trying to do the same thing with a controller. It's just not going to last very long running it at it's maximum limits. I want to get several thousand miles of reliable use out of a controller. If I get less than 4000 miles, there's something wrong. No...running at the maximum limits is not a good recipe for reliability. THat's why I posted what I posted.

Your advertised specs are just not realistic. At least change that big bold print so it's honest. Say something like "6kw maximum, 4kw continuous"...that's realistic and not misleading. I shouldn't have to read the tiny fine print to discover that you don't recommend running a 12 fet at 6kw. Gee really? I can't run at 6kw and have it last more than a day or 2?

I'm currently in the process of testing mosfets, not just believing manufacturer spec sheets. I have a variety of TO-220 mosfets in my possession that are the best of the best in 100v. I will be testing their real Rds at Vgs(th) and 10 volts. Later I will take a mosfet of each model and load test it until failure at 50 volts and at 100 volts to see real current handling. My old temp reader died so I need to buy a new one for this test. A higher wattage mosfet should be able to get hotter before failure than a lower wattage mosfet. My test will use a square wave so that I'm simulating a fixed speed PWM signal on the gate. It won't be exactly like a real motor control signal which is PWM, but close enough that it won't matter. There will be no back feeding through the internal diode. The test will reveal what mosfet handles the most current while switching on and off at real switching speeds with the least amount of heat. In a controller or on a test bench, that mosfet will perform best. I have purchased Infineon, AOT, IXYS, Toshiba and TI mosfets to test out. What got me doing this was doing spot checks on AOT290's and seeing some of them be out of spec. That got me wondering if off spec components was common or not. The test regimen has evolved from there.

My mosfet test results will be posted here.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by teslanv » Jan 11, 2018 2:08 pm

I'm going to put my pride on the shelf and admit that you have a very valid point, EG.

I've updated my website and removed all references to claimed wattages, and noted continuous and max current for each of these controllers.

The last thing I want is to deceive anyone. I do think I have a great product here, and I am excited to be able to offer this product line to the ES community. I think the Open source aspect of these controllers and software is a HUGE benefit to the ebiking community, especially those who want to push the limits.

Powervelocity was a customer of mine, before he started his own business, just as I was a customer for many other ebike companies (and still am). I've been impressed with what he (with your help) have been able to do with these very capable controllers.

Competition breeds advancement, and that can clearly be seen here in this little microcosm of Ebike controllers, and the community is most benefited.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 11, 2018 3:49 pm

teslanv wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 2:08 pm
I'm going to put my pride on the shelf and admit that you have a very valid point, EG.

I've updated my website and removed all references to claimed wattages, and noted continuous and max current for each of these controllers.

The last thing I want is to deceive anyone. I do think I have a great product here, and I am excited to be able to offer this product line to the ES community. I think the Open source aspect of these controllers and software is a HUGE benefit to the ebiking community, especially those who want to push the limits.

Powervelocity was a customer of mine, before he started his own business, just as I was a customer for many other ebike companies (and still am). I've been impressed with what he (with your help) have been able to do with these very capable controllers.

Competition breeds advancement, and that can clearly be seen here in this little microcosm of Ebike controllers, and the community is most benefited.
That was really cool! I should have been kinder in my first post. I was being a bit dickish. OK...lots dickish. LOL!

I still think you should post real wattage ratings for your controllers. I just went and looked and saw that it's not there at all now.

I agree...these are pretty decent controllers. When I got my first one from Vadym and took it apart, I was almost immediately sold into buying more of them. I quickly saw how hackable they are and how much fun I could have in pushing more out of them. LOL...that killed my second controller with going too far...oh well! I did salvage most of the mosfets, but the MCU was cooked.

I have 3 things I want from these controllers that they don't currently do...
1. higher eRPM...50,000 is not enough for larger outrunners.
2. Variable regen on board.
3. It's on the board, but not wired in...status LED's.

PV's latest telemetry module is the bomb! It has come a long way since I paired up with him. The original module is nothing like what we have now! The app for IOS and android is way cool and seeing constant new functionality added. the latest telemetry module has so much untapped potential in it. It's just software at this point that has yet to be implemented. I think there will be another revision of the module. We are talking about that already and I just got the latest version on Saturday and have yet to even plug it in.

I told PV this...I like your black shells better than the silver/grey ones we get. Black is just prettier. Do you paint them or are they anno'd? Ever look at intercoolers for cars? They have been bare aluminum for many years...not overly pretty. Then somebody painted one black and discovered black was a bit better at cooling than was dull silver. I doubt it helps your controllers dramatically, but if the controller isn't in the direct sun and gets air flow over it, it ought to run a little cooler than a silver one.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by teslanv » Jan 11, 2018 4:25 pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 3:49 pm
I told PV this...I like your black shells better than the silver/grey ones we get. Black is just prettier. Do you paint them or are they anno'd? Ever look at intercoolers for cars? They have been bare aluminum for many years...not overly pretty. Then somebody painted one black and discovered black was a bit better at cooling than was dull silver. I doubt it helps your controllers dramatically, but if the controller isn't in the direct sun and gets air flow over it, it ought to run a little cooler than a silver one.
I swear it's a crap shoot, every time I get an order. I specify black cases. Sometimes they come painted, other times Anodized, and sometimes they just tell me they can't make them black, and I get silver cases. That's China for you, though.

Black is the way to go, though.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 11, 2018 5:29 pm

teslanv wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 4:25 pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 3:49 pm
I told PV this...I like your black shells better than the silver/grey ones we get. Black is just prettier. Do you paint them or are they anno'd? Ever look at intercoolers for cars? They have been bare aluminum for many years...not overly pretty. Then somebody painted one black and discovered black was a bit better at cooling than was dull silver. I doubt it helps your controllers dramatically, but if the controller isn't in the direct sun and gets air flow over it, it ought to run a little cooler than a silver one.
I swear it's a crap shoot, every time I get an order. I specify black cases. Sometimes they come painted, other times Anodized, and sometimes they just tell me they can't make them black, and I get silver cases. That's China for you, though.

Black is the way to go, though.
Maybe that's why PV just does the silver case...at least it's consistent.
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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET

Post by bionicdan » Jan 11, 2018 6:22 pm

So can i get a 20 percent refund ha ha.

I was just saying on a problem thread on fb that we got an "infineon" 60a and got minimal support/documentation included . It looked scratched up out the box. No data cables no wiring labels. Inconsistent acceleration. Killed my new 74v pack while off due to parasitic drain.

For probably 20 dollars more i got 80a. Labelled wires. Included data cable and video on how too. 1 week shipping for half the cost of the 4 week 60a one. Silent operation and half the motor heat. Aaaand its black and shiny most importantly. Numbers aside this beats all the plug and play ones ive tried by 50 percent, and factoring in cheaper post, probably almost costs the same.

The only obvious downsize is much slimmer wires than my last one?

That being said Id like to know what numbers im getting now ha ha.
Last edited by bionicdan on Jan 21, 2018 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike. Mxus 4t 120v toshiba fets and 16ah 24s nanotech.

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Re: Sine Wave Controllers 6FET/12FET/18FET/24FET

Post by ecross » Jan 21, 2018 5:21 am

teslanv wrote:
May 14, 2017 10:26 am
camerons98 wrote:Where can I buy one of these?
I have a buddy in the UK who has these, also. I gave him a heads up.
-plese send me UK buddy PM or Email ASAP
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